9.6 ACTION 1 on EBay 3 3

[Funnybooks]

On 12/22/2022 at 10:16 AM, Tec-Tac-Toe said:

Is that SPAM?

S*ckers Participating Ad Mauseum

[Tec-Tac-Toe]

On 12/22/2022 at 10:30 AM, Funnybooks said:

S*ckers Participating Ad Mauseum

[lou_fine]

On 12/22/2022 at 7:07 AM, Dr. Balls said:

Leaving aside the amount of resto, wouldn’t it be pertinent to the provenance of the book (especially a $3M book) to show the before/after the work? Classic cars that sell for $20k+ have extensive paperwork showing the work performed - and granted, there’s a lot more to show - but the premise of restoration is the same idea. Showing how it was and then showing how it’s been restored.

I know we all like to make fun of the Meyers and their work because we are on the CGC boards here after all.  

Seriously though and just wondering if anybody here has good Search skills because if I remember correctly, the Meyers had several detailed pictures from before, during, and after their process which they had posted in that original thread  (i.e. Detective 38 Blowing Up or something like that?? ) along with detailed notes of exactly what was done to the book(s). 

The "during the process" pictures were quite interesting because we hardly ever see those from anybody else when restoration work is done on a book.  

[lou_fine]

On 12/10/2022 at 6:11 AM, DocHoppus182 said:

Isn’t this the copy along with the Detective 27 that’s heavily restored that CGC refused to grade and then a lawsuit came about?

 

On 12/10/2022 at 1:43 PM, Terry JSA said:

On 12/10/2022 at 1:38 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

More resto than actual book 

That makes sense.

Definitely not the case when they first got together as a business relationship, even an informal one, can be just like love where the similarities and desires between the two parties stand out in the beginning and then over time, differences between the two parties start to creep in which can often result in a very public falling out between the two parties as in this case here, as per an excerpt from the court ruling by the judge in the case:    

The Meyers began restoring comic books professionally in 2013. As they gained experience, they learned the tools of the trade, such as color touch, piece replacement, tear seals, cleaning or replacing staples, re-glossing and cover cleaning. By skillfully applying those methods, a restorative artist can breathe new life into an aged and worn comic book, substantially increasing its market value. Comic books sold at auction are typically graded on a "1 to 10" scale for overall condition, an "A to C" scale for the quality of restoration, and a "1 to 5" scale for the quantity of restoration work.

CGC is an entity which grades and certifies comic books for valuation purposes. CCS is an entity that restores comic books and it is owned by CGC. At the relevant times, Nelson had dual roles as both a grader for CGC and the president of CCS. In his capacity as a grader, he evaluated much of the Meyers' work. He also corresponded with the Meyers beginning in 2014, advising them on how to avoid the use of irreversible restoration techniques that would decrease a comic book's auction value, such as "trimming" the outer dimensions of pages and applying too much "color touch" to artwork.

It is undisputed that Nelson appreciated the Meyers' talent and sought to hone their ability. In fact, in 2014 alone, the Meyers had received the highest possible rating from CGC on seven comics they had submitted for evaluation. The next year, in January 2015, the Meyers met with Nelson at his office in Florida. Nelson reviewed a number of their restored comic books and gave them additional advice about which processes to use or avoid.

At the meeting, Nelson complimented a restored "Batman #1" as the best he had ever seen. Nelson also offered to "press" the Meyers' restored copy of "Amazing Fantasy #15" in order to remove a warp in the spine and thereby achieve an almost perfect grade from CGC. The Meyers followed Nelson's advice and were grateful to be mentored by a respected authority on comic book restoration.

The Meyers continued receiving generally high gradings from CGC well into 2015, having followed many of Nelson's suggestions. Nelson confirmed as much in April 2015, emailing them that a recent submission had earned a very high grading. CGC awarded the Meyers the highest known grading in May 2015 for restored editions of two other comic books.

Just an except from the court ruling to show that CGC was in fact grading these books at the start before Matt and the Meyers got into their dispute as he felt that their work went further than where it should have gone.  

Edited December 22, 2022 by lou_fine

[badback83]

On 12/22/2022 at 2:44 PM, lou_fine said:

 

Definitely not the case when they first got together as a business relationship, even an informal one, can be just like love where the similarities and desires between the two parties stand out in the beginning and then over time, differences between the two parties start to creep in which can often result in a very public falling out between the two parties as in this case here, as per an excerpt from the court ruling by the judge in the case:    

The Meyers began restoring comic books professionally in 2013. As they gained experience, they learned the tools of the trade, such as color touch, piece replacement, tear seals, cleaning or replacing staples, re-glossing and cover cleaning. By skillfully applying those methods, a restorative artist can breathe new life into an aged and worn comic book, substantially increasing its market value. Comic books sold at auction are typically graded on a "1 to 10" scale for overall condition, an "A to C" scale for the quality of restoration, and a "1 to 5" scale for the quantity of restoration work.

CGC is an entity which grades and certifies comic books for valuation purposes. CCS is an entity that restores comic books and it is owned by CGC. At the relevant times, Nelson had dual roles as both a grader for CGC and the president of CCS. In his capacity as a grader, he evaluated much of the Meyers' work. He also corresponded with the Meyers beginning in 2014, advising them on how to avoid the use of irreversible restoration techniques that would decrease a comic book's auction value, such as "trimming" the outer dimensions of pages and applying too much "color touch" to artwork.

It is undisputed that Nelson appreciated the Meyers' talent and sought to hone their ability. In fact, in 2014 alone, the Meyers had received the highest possible rating from CGC on seven comics they had submitted for evaluation. The next year, in January 2015, the Meyers met with Nelson at his office in Florida. Nelson reviewed a number of their restored comic books and gave them additional advice about which processes to use or avoid.

At the meeting, Nelson complimented a restored "Batman #1" as the best he had ever seen. Nelson also offered to "press" the Meyers' restored copy of "Amazing Fantasy #15" in order to remove a warp in the spine and thereby achieve an almost perfect grade from CGC. The Meyers followed Nelson's advice and were grateful to be mentored by a respected authority on comic book restoration.

The Meyers continued receiving generally high gradings from CGC well into 2015, having followed many of Nelson's suggestions. Nelson confirmed as much in April 2015, emailing them that a recent submission had earned a very high grading. CGC awarded the Meyers the highest known grading in May 2015 for restored editions of two other comic books.

Just an except from the court ruling to show that CGC was in fact grading these books at the start before Matt and the Meyers got into their dispute as he felt that their work went further than where it should have gone.  

Interesting.  I wasn’t quite sure about how it all went down.

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 12/22/2022 at 2:44 PM, lou_fine said:

CGC is an entity which grades and certifies comic books for valuation purposes. CCS is an entity that restores comic books and it is owned by CGC. At the relevant times, Nelson had dual roles as both a grader for CGC and the president of CCS. In his capacity as a grader, he evaluated much of the Meyers' work. He also corresponded with the Meyers beginning in 2014, advising them on how to avoid the use of irreversible restoration techniques that would decrease a comic book's auction value, such as "trimming" the outer dimensions of pages and applying too much "color touch" to artwork.

I remain amazed that CGC/CCS hasn’t been hit hard with some  kind of conflict of interest suit.  Boggles my mind really....

[lou_fine]

On 12/22/2022 at 8:36 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

On 12/22/2022 at 11:44 AM, lou_fine said:

CGC is an entity which grades and certifies comic books for valuation purposes. CCS is an entity that restores comic books and it is owned by CGC. At the relevant times, Nelson had dual roles as both a grader for CGC and the president of CCS.

I remain amazed that CGC/CCS hasn’t been hit hard with some  kind of conflict of interest suit.  Boggles my mind really....

Well, clearly the judge had this part of his court ruling wrong as CCS is actually owned by CCG (i.e. the Certified Collectibles Group) who also owns CGC along with several other related collectibles grading companies, with CGC being a relatively small part of the overall CCG umbrella of companies.  

As for the conflict of interest aspect to which you are referring to, I believe it's pretty hard to prove anything in a court of law when their official grading standards are undisclosed as it's considered to be proprietary knowledge to their business and also subject to undisclosed changes at any point in time.  

This potential conflict of interest aspect was also already pretty much talked to death on these boards here when CCG first acquire Matt's Classics Incorporated back in 2013 and reorganized it into CCS (i.e. Classic Collectible Services).  Of course, what you and other old school collectors might see as a conflict of interest, in the real world of business, it's called vertical integration and the successful realization of business synergies, especially after the changing of the guard at CGC.  Then again, isn't it all good since it simply means more money for all players involved, as long as you play by their rules of the game.   

Edited December 23, 2022 by lou_fine