Innaccurate description on a Heritage Auction - do they change it, or is it just "Buyer Beware"? UPDATE: Changed! 1 1

[Dr. Balls]

Spent the better part of two days researching a particular piece on auction that had a statement in the description of:

"this pin-up of unknown pedigree, possibly created for [Comic Book Title Here]"

And I am all but 100% sure it is an unpublished piece (and granted, I'm just Joe Schmoe doing research, not a fancy schmancy "Consignment Director"), after reviewing every page in the comic title they referred to, as well as the adjacent title from the same time period. The piece does not have the correct uniforms/outfits of the characters of that time period (they are similar but missing details, as if this was a prototype piece before the actual uniforms had been determined), and the art team went on to do a different published pinup in the comic title.

I did take the time to contact Heritage with my findings, but I have no idea if they bother reading it simply because I imagine they are inundated with emails like mine. I do take issue with auction houses and dealers who say things like "possibly created for!" or "maybe a cover!" or things like that. It comes across as a little Craigslisty, and honestly - if that is your business, and you have employees who "specialize" in that category, it should be more concise. If you don't have the time to research it, don't make assumptions - as I now get to do *your* job by doing the research. But, I digress:

Does Heritage (or anyone else for that matter) correct things like this based on customer input or do they just throw out the description and "buyer beware"? Obviously, I have vested interest in this piece because I do like it as a unpublished piece, but I don't feel like bidding against someone who thinks it *might* be published.

Edited December 13, 2022 by Dr. Balls

[Brian Peck]

I have come across a number of incorrect descriptions on Heritage.I have reached out to them and informed them of the mistake. Most times they update it within the week.

 

[grapeape]

I hear your concern but all you can do is what you've already put in to action. You contact the auction house. As you mentioned emails can get overlooked so follow up with a phone call.

Remember to provide as much verifiable info that you can. Include any supporting documentation. Imagine asking HA to change a listing  based on our say so without receipts. Not going to happen.

I've helped some collectors get proper credit at C-Link for missing attributions. They were good about making updates.

I'm surprised how many people trust the auction house explicitly to be error free. It's always up to the buyer to beware. To know what they are pursuing independent of any descriptive listings and claims within.

Overall I think HA in particular but also C-Link do a pretty good job of correctly/accurately describing their lots.

 

 

 

[JC25427N]

Yeah it is weird, it has the production notes like it was intended to be published but I can't find any trace of it either

 

edit: removed link, figured if OP didn't want to link to it specifically it'd be courteous not to link it myself

Edited December 13, 2022 by JC25427N

[Michael Browning]

What is the piece you’re referring to? It would be helpful to have that link.

[Dr. Balls]

On 12/12/2022 at 11:39 PM, JC25427N said:

Yeah it is weird, it has the production notes like it was intended to be published but I can't find any trace of it either

 

edit: removed link, figured if OP didn't want to link to it specifically it'd be courteous not to link it myself

Oh that’s OK, I just didn’t want to stir the pot on something specific unless someone asked about the piece:

https://comics.ha.com/itm/original-comic-art/splash-pages/guy-dorian-and-al-milgrom-fantastic-four-pin-up-original-art-c-1995-total-/a/322250-47058.s?type=lotlink--bidnotice-tracked-dailystatus

And yeah, those production notes convinced me as well - but yeah, nothin’.

 

Edited December 13, 2022 by Dr. Balls

[Sean I]

There was a Lawrence Sterne Stevens piece in the last Illustration auction at Heritage that they attributed from being published in 1920.  I’m fairly certain it was actually published in Famous Fantastic Mysteries in 1949 for a completely different story with the same title.  Still a gorgeous piece nonetheless.  I never got a response and the posting was never updated.

There was a Marc Hempel piece recently of Morpheus with a ‘Sandman’ text stat over it listed as an unused cover.  Even the more casual fans would know Dave McKean did all of the covers.   I asked Marc in Baltimore about it and he said he couldn’t recall if it was a house ad or other promo piece.  Again, doesn’t take away from the piece at all, but Heritage did not do anything with the information when I emailed.

As others have said they may receive more emails then they can process during the auction period.

[Michael Browning]

They’ve always been very quick to respond to my emails and have made the changes/updates very quickly.

[alxjhnsn]

My experience is if you report it before the auction opens, they will fix it, but it takes a week.

Guy is a FB friend. I'll ask him.

[alxjhnsn]

Here's what Guy told me about it:

Quote

I don't recall if it was ever published. But I do know, it was the first piece bought by Marvel that was inked. As well as the first piece I did with Milgrom. I think it was 1992-93.

So, still no proof that it's unpublished, but given that it was his first sold piece, I'd bet he'd remember if it was also his first published piece.

[topcat54]

Looks like someone might have done a cover swipe in 2008 kinda looks the same except a few things added and moved around.

https://www.previewsworld.com/Catalog/DEC072285

[alxjhnsn]

Guy continued:

 

Quote

Not published. It was to be published in one of Herb's FF's. But, by the time it was to be published, Herb got pink slipped from Marvel. I remember staying up all night working on that,hoping Marvel would buy it. And when I went in with Mark Pacella bringing in X-Force pages, and they bought it. I couldn't believe I finally got to draw FF and get it bought by Marvel. It was a major step as it lifted my career and it is my favorite, of my hero Jack Kirby's greatest teams.

 

Edited December 13, 2022 by alxjhnsn

[Dr. Balls]

On 12/13/2022 at 11:57 AM, alxjhnsn said:

Guy continued:

 

 

Rock on - I appreciate the detective work! I had reached out to Guy via email but did not hear back (it was a generic inquiry to see if he was around, not about this specific piece of artwork). Nice to hear the backstory on this one. 

[buttock]

On 12/13/2022 at 11:57 AM, alxjhnsn said:

Guy continued:

 

 

So it's exactly what HA said in the description: 

Quote

 Fantastic Four are on the attack in this pin-up of unknown pedigree, possibly an unpublished pin-up created for a Fantastic Four comic

 

[alxjhnsn]

Well, they said "possibly" and now we know it wasn't used, but it is Guy's first sale to Marvel and that it was to be in a pin-up in one of Herb Trimpe's FF books.

Edited December 14, 2022 by alxjhnsn

[Dr. Balls]

On 12/13/2022 at 1:56 PM, buttock said:

So it's exactly what HA said in the description: 

 Fantastic Four are on the attack in this pin-up of unknown pedigree, possibly an unpublished pin-up created for a Fantastic Four comic

That wasn't what it said yesterday - they changed the description, which was pretty timely on their part, kudos to HA for that - pretty neat how they were on top of it. This is what it said yesterday:

Edited December 13, 2022 by Dr. Balls

[buttock]

On 12/13/2022 at 2:01 PM, Dr. Balls said:

That wasn't what it said yesterday - they changed the description, which was pretty timely on their part. This is what it said yesterday:

[Ecclectica]

On 12/13/2022 at 5:04 AM, Dr. Balls said:

Does Heritage (or anyone else for that matter) correct things like this based on customer input or do they just throw out the description and "buyer beware"?

2 or 3 years ago, I saw a pasted patch on a BWS page (on the main character face) and its presence wasn't mentioned in the description. The patch was visible but not obvious on a quick view. I told them and they modified quickly the decription accordingly.

 

[alxjhnsn]

I heard back from Heritage. Here's the note:

Quote

 

Dear Alexander,

 

Thank you for the heads up. I’ve edited the attribution to “Bob Kane Studio”. It will take our website a while to update. We appreciate your watchful eyes!

 

Sincerely,

 

Jim Steele | Chief Cataloguer
HERITAGE AUCTIONS
214-409-1328 | 877-HERITAGE (437-4824) | Fax: 214-409-2328
2801 W Airport Freeway
Dallas, TX 75261

 

I pointed out that they are missing a bet by ignoring that it's (in)famous.
 

[RBerman]

I noticed two days ago that yesterday's Wednesday auction had a Terry and the Pirates which incorrectly identified the characters in the scene as "Ryan and Burma" when it was really "Terry and Burma." I submitted a correction, probably too close to the auction close.