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Voting booth for the Best of 2022 two days left to vote
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78 posts in this topic

On 1/20/2023 at 9:49 AM, RBerman said:

Two other modification possibilities:

 

1) There are separate categories for "Illustration" and "Other." I would think those could be combined since this is a contest for illustrations. As I look through the "other" category, most of the pieces look like they could reasonably have been put into a more specific category like "commission" or "illustration" or "cover" or "recreation. Speaking of which:

2) Specifically expand "recreation" to include "homage." Not all recreations are intended to be exact, like the "One Minute Later" series, or the "Calvin and Hobbes version of Silver Surfer #4."

1) We have "Other" as a category since people always ask what category something should be in so if they are nor sure just use Other. I have been trying to get "Other" smaller each year. Might remove it next year and see how it goes. After adding the other non-comic art categories I think Other can go away.

2. Recreation like homage are basically commissions, unless done for the publishers for the released comics. Didn't think it was necessary to call it out in the description.

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On 1/20/2023 at 9:43 AM, J.Sid said:

I like this idea, at least for the main categories (Cover, Splash, Panel Page)
 

Gold / Silver / Bronze / Copper / Modern? (too many?)

Pre-Image / Post-Image? (1992)

Pre-2000 / Post-2000?

This has been brought up alot but I do not see the reason for it. Besides having to set hard dates for each category, when does silver age end? Bronze Age? etc. What is the point? There are 5 and 6 figure image artwork, along with silver and bonze age artwork. Even modern Jim Lee art fetches high 5 figures.

More categories the more work people have to do choosing where their art should be and that might cause fewer people to enter. This year we had 20% increase in the number of entries compared to last year. So long as entries stay the same or increase. That is the main thing Bill and I want to see. We are open to changes but many of these have been mentioned over the almost 20 years of CAF and the Best of.

 

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On 1/20/2023 at 10:49 AM, RBerman said:

Many humans are inherently competitive [and] because I'm competitive, I also think about how many views and likes and comments I get. When I post a new piece I really like, I can't help wondering whether it will get featured in the weekly CAF update on YouTube. (This has happened once.) But watching the CAF update the following week, I can't say that my piece was more deserving than the ones that were chosen.

That's how the awards are as well. There's so much great art out there that everybody needs to just take it in fun and not set any expectations of their art "winning." For me "winning" is just having my art featured next to some really cool pieces. (I'm going to keep reminding myself.) OK, if I get a few new likes and comments out of it, that's fun too.

I think that's it in a nutshell: I don't think most people set expectations for winning (I know I didn't); by and large regardless of what you collect there's universal acknowledgement that virtually any Killing Joke, Watchmen or Dark Knight page will 99/100 times get chosen over something less desirable. If that's the case, why not segment those types of pieces into one category, so they can compete together, and all of the other art that is submitted competes separately.  Maybe I'm alone, but if there's all this talk about using this as a way to discover and see new art that was missed being posted over the last year, I think this separation would be beneficial to seeing and viewing all other non-classic pieces differently. Otherwise it feels like those pieces can be unfairly compared to the likes of those they can never compete against.

@Brian Peck is right in saying that it's impossible to police by price. However, objectively it feels odd that such a significant amount of comic art conversations revolve around price, but one categorical separation of above or below one value is something that can be dismissed as impossible.

Everyone that submits their art into the public sphere, and the people behind CAF, overall, make it the great thing that it is. And for that I am grateful. :)

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On 1/20/2023 at 12:49 PM, RBerman said:

Two other modification possibilities:

 

1) There are separate categories for "Illustration" and "Other." I would think those could be combined since this is a contest for illustrations. As I look through the "other" category, most of the pieces look like they could reasonably have been put into a more specific category like "commission" or "illustration" or "cover" or "recreation. Speaking of which:

2) Specifically expand "recreation" to include "homage." Not all recreations are intended to be exact, like the "One Minute Later" series, or the "Calvin and Hobbes version of Silver Surfer #4."

Also, I think they combined Published and unpublished for each category, which is a decided disadvantage for unpublished pieces.

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On 1/20/2023 at 11:22 AM, PhilipB2k17 said:

Also, I think they combined Published and unpublished for each category, which is a decided disadvantage for unpublished pieces.

Not enough unpublished art for each type (cover, splash, panel) to justify its own category.

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On 1/20/2023 at 11:17 AM, Phill the Governor said:

I think that's it in a nutshell: I don't think most people set expectations for winning (I know I didn't); by and large regardless of what you collect there's universal acknowledgement that virtually any Killing Joke, Watchmen or Dark Knight page will 99/100 times get chosen over something less desirable. If that's the case, why not segment those types of pieces into one category, so they can compete together, and all of the other art that is submitted competes separately.  Maybe I'm alone, but if there's all this talk about using this as a way to discover and see new art that was missed being posted over the last year, I think this separation would be beneficial to seeing and viewing all other non-classic pieces differently. Otherwise it feels like those pieces can be unfairly compared to the likes of those they can never compete against.

@Brian Peck is right in saying that it's impossible to police by price. However, objectively it feels odd that such a significant amount of comic art conversations revolve around price, but one categorical separation of above or below one value is something that can be dismissed as impossible.

Everyone that submits their art into the public sphere, and the people behind CAF, overall, make it the great thing that it is. And for that I am grateful. :)

For me its all about seeing what I missed and sharing what are my favorites I acquired over the year. Spreading going out over 2 weeks gives people more than a day to going thru each of the 11 categories. My main expectation for Best of it I get at least one vote for each of my pieces.

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On 1/20/2023 at 10:54 AM, Brian Peck said:

This has been brought up alot but I do not see the reason for it.

 

The biggest reason would be to split a category with 400 entries into 2 categories.

The secondary reason would so that a Kirby/Sinnott twice up Fantastic Four page is not in the same category as a non-lettered, pencil page which was drawn in 2021. At least make an attempt to compare apples to apples.

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On 1/20/2023 at 11:40 AM, J.Sid said:

The biggest reason would be to split a category with 400 entries into 2 categories.

The secondary reason would so that a Kirby/Sinnott twice up Fantastic Four page is not in the same category as a non-lettered, pencil page which was drawn in 2021. At least make an attempt to compare apples to apples.

And you have a Jim Lee Hush page which is not lettered on the artwork. That would be like Kirby/Sinnott twice up Fantastic Four, very expensive and out of the reach of many collectors. You trade one expensive page done in the 60s to another one done in the 21st century, would still be the same situation.

Edited by Brian Peck
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On 1/20/2023 at 2:46 PM, Brian Peck said:

And you have a Jim Lee Hush page which is not lettered on the artwork. That would be like Kirby/Sinnott twice up Fantastic Four, very expensive and out of the reach of many collectors. You trade one expensive page done in the 60s to another one done in the 21st century, would still be the same situation.

Then let people vote for as many as 10 pages rather than 5. 

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On 1/20/2023 at 12:46 PM, PhilipB2k17 said:

Then let people vote for as many as 10 pages rather than 5. 

The 5 limit was inherited from before CAF when comic art-l website was limited to 5 pieces for each collector. After the Best of 2022 awards, Bill and I will open up discussions about changes for 2023. That will be on the list.

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On 1/20/2023 at 11:46 AM, Brian Peck said:

And you have a Jim Lee Hush page which is not lettered on the artwork. That would be like Kirby/Sinnott twice up Fantastic Four, very expensive and out of the reach of many collectors. You trade one expensive page done in the 60s to another one done in the 21st century, would still be the same situation.

It's not about the price. It's not necessarily about the lettering. It's about the drastic difference in eras.

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On 1/20/2023 at 4:29 PM, J.Sid said:

It's not about the price. It's not necessarily about the lettering. It's about the drastic difference in eras.

I don't necessarily disagree but I think it'd help your point (and maybe help Brian better explain why he disagrees) if you elaborate then on what about the drastic difference in eras other then price and lettering makes the voting or comparisons unfair in your view?

Edited by JC25427N
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On 1/20/2023 at 1:29 PM, J.Sid said:

It's not about the price. It's not necessarily about the lettering. It's about the drastic difference in eras.

Then having the eras mixed is a good thing. There are many new collectors that started reading in the 90s that have no interest in silver and golden age  artwork and vice versa. For me new art without letter doesn't interest me and I usually will not buy panel page without lettering. So I wouldn't vote for anything in that category is it was 2000 and later.  Double edged sword, breaking it down by eras might get fewer to vote in a certain category.

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On 1/20/2023 at 10:13 PM, Brian Peck said:

Then having the eras mixed is a good thing. There are many new collectors that started reading in the 90s that have no interest in silver and golden age  artwork and vice versa. For me new art without letter doesn't interest me and I usually will not buy panel page without lettering. So I wouldn't vote for anything in that category is it was 2000 and later.  Double edged sword, breaking it down by eras might get fewer to vote in a certain category.

Yeah, you can always over-complicate things . . . the older farts, like me, will vote for the older stuff that we're familiar with, while the newbie collectors will gravitate towards more recent things . . . it's all cyclical.  The newbie collectors of today will, over time, eventually become the old farts of tomorrow! 

Edited by The Voord
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On 1/20/2023 at 2:13 PM, Brian Peck said:

Then having the eras mixed is a good thing. There are many new collectors that started reading in the 90s that have no interest in silver and golden age  artwork and vice versa. For me new art without letter doesn't interest me and I usually will not buy panel page without lettering. So I wouldn't vote for anything in that category is it was 2000 and later.  Double edged sword, breaking it down by eras might get fewer to vote in a certain category.

100% agree.

Things as they stand I feel are just balanced enough.  Attention spans are already short.

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On 1/20/2023 at 3:46 PM, PhilipB2k17 said:

Then let people vote for as many as 10 pages rather than 5. 

Yeah, I think the 5 limit is outdated at this point with so much participation. I agree that it should be 10 so people have enough votes to spread around.

I havent voted in all the categories yet, but, in the ones i did, there were definitely more pieces that I wanted to acknowledge/recognize but didn't have the votes to do so. :sorry:

I agree that raising the number of votes permitted would also eliminate the need to break the categories down further. IMO there are already more than enough as it is. 2c

Edited by delekkerste
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