Should Captain America get married? 1 1

[BuyTheRedCar]

Hello all. I am interested in your opinions about whether (and how) to marry a Captain America #46. I got lucky and acquired an incomplete CGC graded .5 copy (missing centerfold, detached cover, but otherwise nice looking) and a coverless (otherwise complete) raw copy (see photos below).  Down the road, however, and for purposes of our discussion, let us assume the relevant consideration is desirability in the hands of other golden age collectors.  As I see it, the options are:

1. Marry the centerfold and have the .5 copy conserved (that is, reattach cover, seal tears, and attach centerfold) and have it regraded.

2. Marry, but do not reattach or conserve, the centerfold to the .5 copy and have it regraded.

3. Have the coverless copy graded and have a pair of CGC slabs.

4. Leave them as is.

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[Frisco Larson]

I would like to present you with yet another option: I would remove the centerfold from the coverless, then shoot high quality color copies of the cover (inside and out) and the centerfold. Have the original centerfold and the centerfold out copy married with slight conservation and certified (or kept raw if you wish), THEN take the color copy covers and color copy centerfold and combine them with the remnant donor copy for a nice little reading copying to enjoy. It would cost you next to nothing to make the color copies and it would add significant value to your remnants. In fact, if YOU have no interest in keeping the remnants, I would be an interested buyer of the cobbled together copy. Just my  but another approach if you wish and I seriously WOULD be interested in buying the remnant copy!  

[Frisco Larson]

On 1/22/2023 at 12:52 PM, BuyTheRedCar said:

Hello all. I am interested in your opinions about whether (and how) to marry a Captain America #46. I got lucky and acquired an incomplete CGC graded .5 copy (missing centerfold, detached cover, but otherwise nice looking) and a coverless (otherwise complete) raw copy (see photos below).  Down the road, however, and for purposes of our discussion, let us assume the relevant consideration is desirability in the hands of other golden age collectors.  As I see it, the options are:

1. Marry the centerfold and have the .5 copy conserved (that is, reattach cover, seal tears, and attach centerfold) and have it regraded.

2. Marry, but do not reattach or conserve, the centerfold to the .5 copy and have it regraded.

3. Have the coverless copy graded and have a pair of CGC slabs.

4. Leave them as is.

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

Also, a point of note: if you pulled the centerfold from the coverless and simply placed in inside the cfo copy for regrading, it'd very likely come back in a qualified green label with a grade above .5.

[BuyTheRedCar]

Thanks for the advice Frisco.

I was under the assumption that the grade would remain a .5 without putting the book through some sort of conservation. I hadn't really considered the possibility of a qualified green label.

I will also take your 1st post under advisement.

Regards

[pemart1966]

Am I missing something?  

Why not marry the coverless copy with the cover (don't attach the cover) and then have it graded?

Edited January 23, 2023 by pemart1966

[Frisco Larson]

On 1/23/2023 at 11:09 AM, pemart1966 said:

Am I missing something?  

Why not marry the coverless copy (don't attach) the cover with the cover and then have it graded?

You're right, that'd be the least invasive as far as not having to detach and re-attach anything. Marrying the loose cover to the coverless, leaving the cover loose and having it graded would likely result in a qualified grade of maybe in the 3ish range, but it would be a green label. Then he'd have a coverless copy with cfo to dispose of as well. 

[pemart1966]

On 1/23/2023 at 12:39 PM, Frisco Larson said:

You're right, that'd be the least invasive as far as not having to detach and re-attach anything. Marrying the loose cover to the coverless, leaving the cover loose and having it graded would likely result in a qualified grade of maybe in the 3ish range, but it would be a green label. Then he'd have a coverless copy with cfo to dispose of as well. 

The previous label was blue with the centrefold missing and the cover detached.  Can he not get a blue label again with just the cover detached this time?

[Frisco Larson]

On 1/23/2023 at 12:29 PM, pemart1966 said:

The previous label was blue with the centrefold missing and the cover detached.  Can he not get a blue label again with just the cover detached this time?

The previous label was blue because the book was all original to itself. Wrapping a non-original cover around a coverless is considered "marrying" the cover and is considered qualified by CGC to differentiate between a book having a loose but original cover to that exact book. Most of the time it's fairly easy to see a coverless copy married to a cover as the staple holes rarely line up exactly. Marrying a centerfold can suffer from the same misalignment and CGC would consider THAT qualified too, but from an appearance standpoint, it would be hidden inside the slab, whereas a cover misalignment would be visible thru the slab. Marrying covers or interior pages gets you a green qualified label. 

[Sauce Dog]

Conserve it. The entire point is to make this book more structurally sound, allowing it stand the test of time so just do it right with minor investment (I always recommend https://www.instagram.com/phantomrestoration/ for valuable stuff like this). A blue/grey label isn't a death knell, and I personally think is what would be best for the book and the grade.

[Robot Man]

On 1/22/2023 at 12:11 PM, Frisco Larson said:

I would like to present you with yet another option: I would remove the centerfold from the coverless, then shoot high quality color copies of the cover (inside and out) and the centerfold. Have the original centerfold and the centerfold out copy married with slight conservation and certified (or kept raw if you wish), THEN take the color copy covers and color copy centerfold and combine them with the remnant donor copy for a nice little reading copying to enjoy. It would cost you next to nothing to make the color copies and it would add significant value to your remnants. In fact, if YOU have no interest in keeping the remnants, I would be an interested buyer of the cobbled together copy. Just my  but another approach if you wish and I seriously WOULD be interested in buying the remnant copy!  

I would go for this. A book like that BEGS to be married.

[Cat-Man_America]

I have mixed feelings about this, ...marriage is an excellent option, but by #65 it's pretty clear Cap was having a pretty good time being single.  

Spoiler

Sorry, couldn't resist. Other suggestions/ideas worth considering have been spot on!  

 

[Frisco Larson]

On 1/23/2023 at 7:01 PM, Robot Man said:

I would go for this. A book like that BEGS to be married.

Agreed and I really like being able to complete remnants with color copies and make inexpensive readers for those of us who need to operate within a budget. I'm not ashamed to have a coverless with a laser color replica cover. 

[pemart1966]

Match the original cover to the complete original contents and submit.  No restoring; no removals; no alterations.  

In this manner, you have everything original and untouched.  Those are the keys IMO - it's original and it's untouched.

[szav]

#2

[Phill the Governor]

On 1/22/2023 at 1:52 PM, BuyTheRedCar said:

Hello all. I am interested in your opinions about whether (and how) to marry a Captain America #46. I got lucky and acquired an incomplete CGC graded .5 copy (missing centerfold, detached cover, but otherwise nice looking) and a coverless (otherwise complete) raw copy (see photos below).  Down the road, however, and for purposes of our discussion, let us assume the relevant consideration is desirability in the hands of other golden age collectors.  As I see it, the options are:

1. Marry the centerfold and have the .5 copy conserved (that is, reattach cover, seal tears, and attach centerfold) and have it regraded.

2. Marry, but do not reattach or conserve, the centerfold to the .5 copy and have it regraded.

3. Have the coverless copy graded and have a pair of CGC slabs.

4. Leave them as is.

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

 

On 1/23/2023 at 6:26 PM, Sauce Dog said:

Conserve it. The entire point is to make this book more structurally sound, allowing it stand the test of time so just do it right with minor investment (I always recommend https://www.instagram.com/phantomrestoration/ for valuable stuff like this). A blue/grey label isn't a death knell, and I personally think is what would be best for the book and the grade.

I sincerely appreciate the shoutout!

I'm Phantom Restoration.

 

One thing that no one has mentioned is, without having all the pieces in hand, there's no way to know how the production cut of each copy is. That may swing one option over the other. In my experience it's almost always better to put a complete interior with a loose cover instead of marrying one interior page to another copy missing one page.

Leaving it qualified and together, but not conserved, will likely open the door for damage to occur over time; even if graded. With conservation not only will the technical grade bump up, but the preservation of the book will be taken into account and help the book to cover and interior to retain condition. And remember, conservation has a focus on reversibility: it can always be undone (except for washing which wouldn't be necessary here).

As time goes on, the market has begun to see and will see more conserved books. Especially since the average age of Golden Age books is pushing 70-80 years now.

[BuyTheRedCar]

 

On 1/23/2023 at 10:09 AM, pemart1966 said:

Am I missing something?  

Why not marry the coverless copy with the cover (don't attach the cover) and then have it graded?

Thanks for you input Petmart.  

There are some issues which I did not mention in my 1st post (sorry, don't mean to waste anyone's time) regarding the coverless copy. The 1st wrap of the coverless copy has several problems (as can be seen in the attached photos): it is detached; it has a big tear (from the top spine down to Cap's right foot); and it is missing a couple of chunks from the spine. Also, the two center wraps are detached, but are in pretty good shape otherwise. There is no writing, no rust and no tape. Page quality seems to be cream to off-white. 

As far as the graded copy goes. I have this:

Grader's notes for the ,5 copy are as follows:

detached cover
light finger bends on cover
light wear all edges of cover
missing centerfold affects story
moderate creasing to cover
moderate spine stress lines to cover
moderate wear all corners of cover

Thank you again to everyone for sharing your views.

[Phill the Governor]

On 1/24/2023 at 12:19 PM, BuyTheRedCar said:

 

Thanks for you input Petmart.  

There are some issues which I did not mention in my 1st post (sorry, don't mean to waste anyone's time) regarding the coverless copy. The 1st wrap of the coverless copy has several problems (as can be seen in the attached photos): it is detached; it has a big tear (from the top spine down to Cap's right foot); and it is missing a couple of chunks from the spine. Also, the two center wraps are detached, but are in pretty good shape otherwise. There is no writing, no rust and no tape. Page quality seems to be cream to off-white. 

As far as the graded copy goes. I have this:

Grader's notes for the ,5 copy are as follows:

detached cover
light finger bends on cover
light wear all edges of cover
missing centerfold affects story
moderate creasing to cover
moderate spine stress lines to cover
moderate wear all corners of cover

Thank you again to everyone for sharing your views.

As mentioned above, the real question is what the production cut of the two copies looks like.

What you're showing in regards to the damage to the first wrap is not that big of a deal and can be remedied under a conso label with leafcasting, or have the minimum amount of tear seals/reinforcement done if looking from a cost perspective (not factoring in a technical grade difference).

The decision to leave it "completely untouched" is a personal preference. Without seeing the cover you'd be looking at a qualified green label with no work done, or a much higher conserved grade no matter what, which notates the work, isn't trying to misrepresent the condition in any way, and is becoming more and more accepted on GA books because of overall age: especially in the case of book that are 1.8 or lower in grade, or have married parts.

[Sauce Dog]

On 1/24/2023 at 10:51 AM, Phill the Governor said:

 

I sincerely appreciate the shoutout!

I'm Phantom Restoration.

 

Lol I totally forgot about your forum name being different and keep loosing track of it! Totally makes sense that it depends on the cut, but at worst case scenario won't that just result in an obvious MARRIED label note while still being much better overall for the structure of the book.

Edited January 25, 2023 by Sauce Dog

[BuyTheRedCar]

On 1/24/2023 at 12:33 PM, Phill the Governor said:

As mentioned above, the real question is what the production cut of the two copies looks like.

What you're showing in regards to the damage to the first wrap is not that big of a deal and can be remedied under a conso label with leafcasting, or have the minimum amount of tear seals/reinforcement done if looking from a cost perspective (not factoring in a technical grade difference).

The decision to leave it "completely untouched" is a personal preference. Without seeing the cover you'd be looking at a qualified green label with no work done, or a much higher conserved grade no matter what, which notates the work, isn't trying to misrepresent the condition in any way, and is becoming more and more accepted on GA books because of overall age: especially in the case of book that are 1.8 or lower in grade, or have married parts.

Phill.

Thanks for your professional guidance on the relevant issues at hand regarding marrying these copies.  I had not considered the impact of the cut of the books. I was primarily focused on going with the "parts" that appeared to be in the best condition.

[Phill the Governor]

On 1/24/2023 at 9:43 PM, BuyTheRedCar said:

Phill.

Thanks for your professional guidance on the relevant issues at hand regarding marrying these copies.  I had not considered the impact of the cut of the books. I was primarily focused on going with the "parts" that appeared to be in the best condition.

Not a problem! Cap 46 is such a cool, historically important book.

Choosing the best condition parts is also a consideration. Definitely a few different ways to go, none of which are the wrong decision, but it ultimately depends on your desired end result.