Stan, Jack, and Steve - The 1960's (1963) Butting Heads, Unexpected Success and Not Expected Failures! 3 3

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS SEPTEMBER 1963

Strange Tales #115 - 'Written' By: Stan Lee  Drawn by: Dick Ayers  Lettered by: Art Simek

Cover by Jack Kirby with inks by Steve Ditko (natch!)

Sandman. What a dunce. Breaks out of jail just so he can fight Spider-man? Duh.

This is a pretty typical Stan Lee 'plot': Borrow a villain from another book, have them fight somewhere interesting (George Washington bridge). Ayers does a decent job pacing it and it reads pretty easy. 

Edited May 7, 2023 by Prince Namor

[Mmehdy]

The one thing this thead as well as your others has clearly established is not all marvels are created equal. It appears on a consistent basis that Kirby/Ditko issues which they had a large imput on the writing/creating aspect is superior to something like this above on the strange tales torch story. Again it was in my opinion that the "movie like quality stories" is what took Marvel to the level above DC...don't get me wrong there was some really great book length stories for example Superman # 132 and #146 and finally a omnibus of those classic stores in Superman and Action is coming see my new post on that. It is just that marvel was hitting so much more home runs. Since the creation of this thead I have changed my opinion as to what really went on. One suggestion,  IF someone out there has the "pure images" issues, I think there were 3, one on the creation of Spidermani issue #1, the second I think was a  on the creation of the marvel universe for sure issue 2 which was 30 pages and covered up to I think 1961/2 the second part I do not believe was ever published, please post these as I have been unable to locate my copies of those great issues. The issues were a preview of what your great theads have gone into with much more detail and examination as it was more of a general overview but it is much more that what was available at the time and he was close to Kirby. I was luckly enough to have as least 2 conversations with Greg at different SDCC...I remember it was the first time I saw the Alt cover to FF3...I asked him how it got it.

 So Prince, for many years those articles sparked something, that best recreation of what took place with historic events which changed comic book collecting forever. After Pure images, it got me thinking.....after I do not believe the second part ever showed up....luck had it....we had a devoted board member who thought as I did, that something just does not add up to the story.  "those who control the present, control the past"

Edited May 7, 2023 by Mmehdy

[Dr. Haydn]

So, the Human Torch has heat-induced super strength! Have we ever seen this ability before, and will we ever see it again?

[Dr. Haydn]

 

"The one thing this thread as well as your others has clearly established is not all marvels are created equal. It appears on a consistent basis that Kirby/Ditko issues which they had a large input on the writing/creating aspect is superior to something like this above on the strange tales torch story."

Absolutely agree. Stan was certainly capable of creating a light, entertaining read--no small accomplishment, and different from what the other comics companies were doing at the time. But most of the substance and depth in Silver Age Marvel came from Jack and Steve.

[Prince Namor]

This recently showed up and I wanted to post it here, as there were questions earlier about Larry Lieber coming up with the 'Uru' name for the metal of Thor's hammer. This is by Chris Tolworthy who has written some of the most detailed research on Kirby and the early days of Marvel.

I HIGHLY recommend his book The Lost Jack Kirby Stories - it shows Kirby's mindset for all of his Marvel creations - how he repeats the process - and how it was simplified, distorted and changed by Stan. Good reading.

https://www.amazon.com/Lost-Jack-Kirby-Stories/dp/1291052941 

 

Anyway, here is something he posted today on the Thor legends, that I found very informative:

 

Kirby's Uru forest, and how Lieber got it wrong

I was intrigued by Lee's claim that Larry Lieber invented the metal Uru. So I had a look at the original Norse myth, then at Kirby's art version, then at the edited text. I think I can see what happened. 

Introduction

The word Uru first appears at the start of Journey into Mystery 85, the first appearance of Asgard and Loki. This is the third Thor story. This is important because Kirby's pattern was to establish a new character in the first three issues. Typically, the first issue is the origin and powers, the second places the character in the context of the reader's world, and the third introduces the lore and the main villain. We see this pattern in the Fantastic Four, Hulk, Iron Man, Spider-Man, etc., and Thor is no exception. Story 1 introduces Thor, the hammer, and his ancient enemies the jotnar (stone men). Story 2 shows Thor as a hero of the cold war (this was 1962 after all). Story 3 has Loki and Asgard. This is based on Norse mythology.

Kirby's story

This is how the story begins, based on the art. it is always best to focus on the art, because the text is usually ruined by the editor. 

 

Page 2 (after the splash page) shows how Loki escapes:

 

panel 1: We begin with Asgard and Bifrost (the rainbow bridge to Earth)

 

panel 2: Loki is trapped within a strange-looking tree

 

panel 3: Heimdall approaches

 

panel 4: a leaf irritates Heimdall's eye

 

panel 5: Heimdall sheds a tear

 

panel 6: Loki escapes the tree. The tree is surrounded by giant mushrooms.

 

panel 7: Loki plots.

 

Page 3 shows how Loki comes to Earth:

 

panel 1: Loki is next to a giant mushroom. he gestures and creates a magical aura.

 

panel 2: smoke appears FROM THE GROUND (this is important). Inside the smoke, we see Thor's hammer.

 

panel 3: Loki then sees Thor on Earth, using his hammer.

 

panel 4: Loki leaves Asgard, via Bifrost

 

panel 5: Loki appears on Earth, in disguise

 

panel 6: Loki hunts for Thor

 

panel 7: Loki cannot find Thor (this is important), so he hatches a plan.

 

Page 4 shows how Loki causes chaos in order to attract Thor, etc.

 

The rest of the story has Loki causing chaos in order to annoy Thor. 

 

The rest of the Thor series is the road to Ragnarok (see my book "The Lost Jack Kirby Stories" for details).

 

 

The Norse myth

The Asgard panels tell the genuine Norse saga. But Kirby changes minor details in order to (1) save space, and (2) keep within the Comics Code. Here is an overview of the Norse saga:

 

The saga is about the road to Ragnarok, the end of the world and death of the gods. Norse means "north": the north men are the people of Scandinavia. Scandinavia is very cold and subject to long, dark winters. Life is a constant battle against the weather. The Norse know that eventually nature will win and life will end. The gods keep that day back by their courage, by fighting for the good of their people. But the god Loki represents laziness and lack of honour: he only wants fun. This attitude weaken mankind and leads to Ragnarok. The Thor comic is about Thor's need to be worthy, contrasted with Loki's desire to have fun at others' expense. Thor is serious, Loki is not. Basically, Kirby is Thor and Lee is Loki. Kirby's art shows that Loki puts people and the world in mortal danger, but Lee's dialogue makes it sound like just fun. This is clearest in Avengers 1, which should be of cosmic importance, but comes across as lightweight nonsense. But I digress. 

 

Loki causes Ragnarok in this way:

 

Odin is chief of the gods. His favourite son is Baldr, the handsome and just warrior. Odin has seen to it that all creation has sworn to never harm Baldr. The other gods have fun by throwing things at Baldr, and nothing harms him. Loki thinks this is boring. he finds out that in all creation, one little plant did not swear to not harm Baldr: that plant is mistletoe. Loki tricks a blind god into hurling the mistletoe, and that kills Baldr. Baldr could be revived with the tears of the giantess Thokk, but she refuses to weep (she is probably Loki in disguise). As punishment, Loki is tied to a rock with the entrails of his own son! Eventually, after long ages, Loki will escape. He will then lead the giants in a war with the gods, and this will cause Ragnarok. During Ragnarok, all the gods die. Loki dies in a battle with Heimdall. 

 

Eventually, a new world will be born from the remains of Yggdrasil, the world tree that supports the cosmos. Yggdrasil is fed by three springs: 

1. the "roaring kettle", the bubbling source of the world's rivers. 
2. the spring of Mimir: water that gives wisdom: Odin sacrificed his eye in order to gain this spring.
3. the spring of Urðr, where the Norns (the fates) see the future and all things; 

I have attached an image showing the Norns at the spring of Urðr. See how it is visualised as water at the base of a great tree. Anyone who needs to know the past, present or future will appeal to that water at the base of the tree.

 

Kirby's version of the myth

Kirby simplifies the lengthy and violent Norse sagas into something simple and safe for the Comics Code. 

 

Kirby starts with visual and beautiful Asgard and Bifrost. Loki is bound in a tree instead of being tied up with the entrails of his own son. Presumably this tree is Yggdrasil: the art follows the rainbow bridge to the tree, and it has strange branches that hang like arms. "Yggdrasil" means "yggr-drasil", "terrible drasil", where "drasil" means "to hold or support". 

 

Loki is freed by a tear, just as Baldr could have been. He is freed by Heimdall, his eventual nemesis. Loki then gains knowledge through a vision from the ground: that is, from the roots of Yggdrasil. That is, from the spring of Urðr. 

Modern readers do not associate springs of water with visions, so Kirby shows us a mushroom forest instead. Modern readers know that mushrooms are associated with visions.

 

When explaining the story to Lee. Kirby had to write down unfamiliar words like Asgard, Bifrost, Loki, Heimdall, and Urðr. Obviously Lee did not read Norse letters, so Urðr had to become an English equivalent. But what?

 

 

How Urðr became Uru

Urðr is pronounced "OOR-di-H" but the word looks like the English letters "uror". The letter "ð" is the Scandinavian letter "eth", a mixture of "d" and soft "th" which is usually transliterated as "d". But it looks more like an "o" with a squiggle on top. Kirby was unlikely to have heard the word spoken, he would have read it in a book. So it probably looked like "uror" to him. This spring created a pool or well into which the Norns (aurors) gaze to see the future. So the spring of Urðr is often written as the well of Urðr, and it is natural to read this as the well of aurors. Kirby probably wrote it as "Uror". Or perhaps changed it to "Uru" to avoid sounding like "error". Or maybe Lee or Lieber changed it to Uru, as that is easier to say. But they definitely did not know what they were copying. This is how we know:

 

 

How Lee got the story wrong

Sten Lee (or Larry Lieber) clearly did not know the Norse myths. They introduce the tree as being "in a remote part of Asgard". No, the whole point of Yggdrasil is that it is in the middle of everything. Then when the vision comes FROM THE GROUND by the tree, the text says it comes from Loki's head, due to a psychic link with the metal of the hammer. Clearly, Lee (or Lieber) glanced at the picture and did not see the significance of the tree, the mushrooms, or the source of the vision. They just saw the most obvious part, the hammer, and assumed that the vision came from the hammer itself. 

 

The confused text is proven wrong by the panels that follow. When Loki arrives on Earth, he does not know where the hammer is. If Loki had a psychic link with the hammer, he could just follow that link. Perhaps we could argue that Loki lost the connection when the hammer became a stick? No, because the dialogue (page 3, last panel) says that Loki still has the power to locate the hammer, but chooses not to. The reason is also absurd: as if other people would see his vision. Even if that was true, he could easily duck into an alleyway. Besides, he then causes a huge disturbance specifically to draw attention to himself, or at least to this general location

 

 

Lee admitted to not knowing the mythology

Finally, here is the famous quote from Origins of Marvel Comics, where Lee claims that Lieber came up with the name "Uru". Notice how Lee does not know the word, and Lieber does not do any research. Also notice how Lee thiinks of the hammer as a carpenter's tool, and not as a war hammer

 

Quote

[After supposedly having the idea for Thor]: "Within minutes I rushed to the typewriter and pounded out a synopsis for Larry, Even though I wouldn’t be writing the --script, I always tried to ensure that the basic concepts would be mine. Of course, Larry put in a lot of his own distinctive touches. One that I’ll never forget was his saying that Thor had an Uru hammer. When I read that I figured the kid had done a lot of research and unearthed the name of some ancient metal. I was proud of him. It wasn’t till we were discussing it years later that he casually mentioned that he’d just made the name up. He liked the sound of it. Well, I have to admit that an Uru hammer sounds a lot more impressive than a plain, ordinary carpenter’s hammer. I’m still proud of him." 

[end quote]

 

 

Note how important it is for Lee to establish that he had all the ideas: "I always tried to ensure that the basic concepts would be mine." He is condescending to his brother. Also notice how Uru is the only evidence that Larry Lieber was somehow involved. Larry is now known as a liar (or at least, not to the extent that his brother is), so it was dangerous to use anything he said: somebody might check. It is true that Larry (or Stanley) changed Uru from being the spring to being the hammer. And Larry had good reason to check with his brother: Larry's position was insecure. So Larry probably said to Stanley "I put that Uru was the hammer, is that OK?" This became the evidence Stanley needed to show that Larry had creative input.

 

 

Summary

In summary, Kirby's art shows a deep familiarity with the Norse myths, including the well of Urðr. He wrote down unfamiliar words, so he either wrote Uror or Uru. Neither Lee nor Lieber understood the myths, so they got the details wrong. But Lee (or somebody) wrote "Origins of Marvel Comics" in order to claim that Lee wrote the story, and the Uru anecdote served his purpose.

 

At least, that is how it looks to me.

Edited May 8, 2023 by Prince Namor

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS SEPTEMBER 1963

Strange Tales #115 - 'Written' By: Stan Lee  Drawn by: Steve Ditko  Lettered by: S. Rosen (My name is Sam!)

 

[Dr. Haydn]

On 5/8/2023 at 7:05 AM, Prince Namor said:

 

ON NEWSSTANDS SEPTEMBER 1963

Strange Tales #115 - 'Written' By: Stan Lee  Drawn by: Steve Ditko  Lettered by: S. Rosen (My name is Sam!)

 

A bit like Peter Parker's story--a selfish individual who had an epiphany.

[Dr. Haydn]

On 5/8/2023 at 7:01 AM, Prince Namor said:

This recently showed up and I wanted to post it here, as there were questions earlier about Larry Lieber coming up with the 'Uru' name for the metal of Thor's hammer. This is by Chris Tolworthy who has written some of the most detailed research on Kirby and the early days of Marvel.

I HIGHLY recommend his book The Lost Jack Kirby Stories - it shows Kirby's mindset for all of his Marvel creations - how he repeats the process - and how it was simplified, distorted and changed by Stan. Good reading.

https://www.amazon.com/Lost-Jack-Kirby-Stories/dp/1291052941 

 

Anyway, here is something he posted today on the Thor legends, that I found very informative:

 

Kirby's Uru forest, and how Lieber got it wrong

I was intrigued by Lee's claim that Larry Lieber invented the metal Uru. So I had a look at the original Norse myth, then at Kirby's art version, then at the edited text. I think I can see what happened. 

Introduction

The word Uru first appears at the start of Journey into Mystery 85, the first appearance of Asgard and Loki. This is the third Thor story. This is important because Kirby's pattern was to establish a new character in the first three issues. Typically, the first issue is the origin and powers, the second places the character in the context of the reader's world, and the third introduces the lore and the main villain. We see this pattern in the Fantastic Four, Hulk, Iron Man, Spider-Man, etc., and Thor is no exception. Story 1 introduces Thor, the hammer, and his ancient enemies the jotnar (stone men). Story 2 shows Thor as a hero of the cold war (this was 1962 after all). Story 3 has Loki and Asgard. This is based on Norse mythology.

Kirby's story

This is how the story begins, based on the art. it is always best to focus on the art, because the text is usually ruined by the editor. 

 

Page 2 (after the splash page) shows how Loki escapes:

 

panel 1: We begin with Asgard and Bifrost (the rainbow bridge to Earth)

 

panel 2: Loki is trapped within a strange-looking tree

 

panel 3: Heimdall approaches

 

panel 4: a leaf irritates Heimdall's eye

 

panel 5: Heimdall sheds a tear

 

panel 6: Loki escapes the tree. The tree is surrounded by giant mushrooms.

 

panel 7: Loki plots.

 

Page 3 shows how Loki comes to Earth:

 

panel 1: Loki is next to a giant mushroom. he gestures and creates a magical aura.

 

panel 2: smoke appears FROM THE GROUND (this is important). Inside the smoke, we see Thor's hammer.

 

panel 3: Loki then sees Thor on Earth, using his hammer.

 

panel 4: Loki leaves Asgard, via Bifrost

 

panel 5: Loki appears on Earth, in disguise

 

panel 6: Loki hunts for Thor

 

panel 7: Loki cannot find Thor (this is important), so he hatches a plan.

 

Page 4 shows how Loki causes chaos in order to attract Thor, etc.

 

The rest of the story has Loki causing chaos in order to annoy Thor. 

 

The rest of the Thor series is the road to Ragnarok (see my book "The Lost Jack Kirby Stories" for details).

 

 

The Norse myth

The Asgard panels tell the genuine Norse saga. But Kirby changes minor details in order to (1) save space, and (2) keep within the Comics Code. Here is an overview of the Norse saga:

 

The saga is about the road to Ragnarok, the end of the world and death of the gods. Norse means "north": the north men are the people of Scandinavia. Scandinavia is very cold and subject to long, dark winters. Life is a constant battle against the weather. The Norse know that eventually nature will win and life will end. The gods keep that day back by their courage, by fighting for the good of their people. But the god Loki represents laziness and lack of honour: he only wants fun. This attitude weaken mankind and leads to Ragnarok. The Thor comic is about Thor's need to be worthy, contrasted with Loki's desire to have fun at others' expense. Thor is serious, Loki is not. Basically, Kirby is Thor and Lee is Loki. Kirby's art shows that Loki puts people and the world in mortal danger, but Lee's dialogue makes it sound like just fun. This is clearest in Avengers 1, which should be of cosmic importance, but comes across as lightweight nonsense. But I digress. 

 

Loki causes Ragnarok in this way:

 

Odin is chief of the gods. His favourite son is Baldr, the handsome and just warrior. Odin has seen to it that all creation has sworn to never harm Baldr. The other gods have fun by throwing things at Baldr, and nothing harms him. Loki thinks this is boring. he finds out that in all creation, one little plant did not swear to not harm Baldr: that plant is mistletoe. Loki tricks a blind god into hurling the mistletoe, and that kills Baldr. Baldr could be revived with the tears of the giantess Thokk, but she refuses to weep (she is probably Loki in disguise). As punishment, Loki is tied to a rock with the entrails of his own son! Eventually, after long ages, Loki will escape. He will then lead the giants in a war with the gods, and this will cause Ragnarok. During Ragnarok, all the gods die. Loki dies in a battle with Heimdall. 

 

Eventually, a new world will be born from the remains of Yggdrasil, the world tree that supports the cosmos. Yggdrasil is fed by three springs: 

1. the "roaring kettle", the bubbling source of the world's rivers. 
2. the spring of Mimir: water that gives wisdom: Odin sacrificed his eye in order to gain this spring.
3. the spring of Urðr, where the Norns (the fates) see the future and all things; 

I have attached an image showing the Norns at the spring of Urðr. See how it is visualised as water at the base of a great tree. Anyone who needs to know the past, present or future will appeal to that water at the base of the tree.

 

Kirby's version of the myth

Kirby simplifies the lengthy and violent Norse sagas into something simple and safe for the Comics Code. 

 

Kirby starts with visual and beautiful Asgard and Bifrost. Loki is bound in a tree instead of being tied up with the entrails of his own son. Presumably this tree is Yggdrasil: the art follows the rainbow bridge to the tree, and it has strange branches that hang like arms. "Yggdrasil" means "yggr-drasil", "terrible drasil", where "drasil" means "to hold or support". 

 

Loki is freed by a tear, just as Baldr could have been. He is freed by Heimdall, his eventual nemesis. Loki then gains knowledge through a vision from the ground: that is, from the roots of Yggdrasil. That is, from the spring of Urðr. 

Modern readers do not associate springs of water with visions, so Kirby shows us a mushroom forest instead. Modern readers know that mushrooms are associated with visions.

 

When explaining the story to Lee. Kirby had to write down unfamiliar words like Asgard, Bifrost, Loki, Heimdall, and Urðr. Obviously Lee did not read Norse letters, so Urðr had to become an English equivalent. But what?

 

 

How Urðr became Uru

Urðr is pronounced "OOR-di-H" but the word looks like the English letters "uror". The letter "ð" is the Scandinavian letter "eth", a mixture of "d" and soft "th" which is usually transliterated as "d". But it looks more like an "o" with a squiggle on top. Kirby was unlikely to have heard the word spoken, he would have read it in a book. So it probably looked like "uror" to him. This spring created a pool or well into which the Norns (aurors) gaze to see the future. So the spring of Urðr is often written as the well of Urðr, and it is natural to read this as the well of aurors. Kirby probably wrote it as "Uror". Or perhaps changed it to "Uru" to avoid sounding like "error". Or maybe Lee or Lieber changed it to Uru, as that is easier to say. But they definitely did not know what they were copying. This is how we know:

 

 

How Lee got the story wrong

Sten Lee (or Larry Lieber) clearly did not know the Norse myths. They introduce the tree as being "in a remote part of Asgard". No, the whole point of Yggdrasil is that it is in the middle of everything. Then when the vision comes FROM THE GROUND by the tree, the text says it comes from Loki's head, due to a psychic link with the metal of the hammer. Clearly, Lee (or Lieber) glanced at the picture and did not see the significance of the tree, the mushrooms, or the source of the vision. They just saw the most obvious part, the hammer, and assumed that the vision came from the hammer itself. 

 

The confused text is proven wrong by the panels that follow. When Loki arrives on Earth, he does not know where the hammer is. If Loki had a psychic link with the hammer, he could just follow that link. Perhaps we could argue that Loki lost the connection when the hammer became a stick? No, because the dialogue (page 3, last panel) says that Loki still has the power to locate the hammer, but chooses not to. The reason is also absurd: as if other people would see his vision. Even if that was true, he could easily duck into an alleyway. Besides, he then causes a huge disturbance specifically to draw attention to himself, or at least to this general location

 

 

Lee admitted to not knowing the mythology

Finally, here is the famous quote from Origins of Marvel Comics, where Lee claims that Lieber came up with the name "Uru". Notice how Lee does not know the word, and Lieber does not do any research. Also notice how Lee thiinks of the hammer as a carpenter's tool, and not as a war hammer

 

Perhaps after the Lieber Brothers botched the Norse legends in this story, Kirby decided to make things right a year later with the Tales of Asgard series, where he took nearly full control of the creative process.

[Prince Namor]

On 5/8/2023 at 9:39 AM, Dr. Haydn said:

Perhaps after the Lieber Brothers botched the Norse legends in this story, Kirby decided to make things right a year later with the Tales of Asgard series, where he took nearly full control of the creative process.

Exactly. 

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS SEPTEMBER 1963

Tales of Suspense #48 - 'Written' By: Stan Lee  Art: Steve Ditko and Dick Ayers  Lettered by: S. Rosen (My name is Sam!)

Cover by Jack Kirby with inks Sol Brodsky

Ditko redesigns Iron Man's armor... Lee finally realizes that he can use Ditko for things Kirby doesn't have the time or interest to do... and he would again, when Ditko creates a new cast and set up for the Hulk...

Part ONE:

Edited May 9, 2023 by Prince Namor

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS SEPTEMBER 1963

Tales of Suspense #48 -

Part TWO:

[Prince Namor]

 

ON NEWSSTANDS SEPTEMBER 1963

Tales of Suspense #48 - Story Plot: Stan Lee  Script & Art: Larry Lieber  Inking: G. Bell  Lettering: Art Simek

[Dr. Haydn]

On 5/9/2023 at 12:17 PM, Prince Namor said:

ON NEWSSTANDS SEPTEMBER 1963

Tales of Suspense #48 -

Part TWO:

Notice that Mr. Doll's name is hastily re-lettered in a different hand (maybe by Stan himself?) in this story, suggesting that he originally had a different name. It was suggested a few years ago (I forget where) that he was originally called "Mr. Pain," but the Comics Code Authority nixed that name, forcing a last-minute substitution. There was enough time to enlist Artie Simek to redo some of the title lettering on the splash page, at least ("Mr. Doll" is in his characteristic "scalloped" style).

The credit box has also been altered. (I suspect that Nick Caputo was the one who noticed this, but it's hard to keep track of all I've read over the years online.) Presumably, it originally read Art: Steve Ditko, and inking: MR. Ayers. Ditko's pencils were apparently more like layouts (he added most of the details in the inking stage), so Mr. Ayers requested (and received) a co-artist credit instead (hence, art: Steve Ditko and MR. Ayers, with "and" clearly in a different hand). It's interesting to me that Ayers was the only Marvel artist in the early 60s who regularly stood up to Stan (though he would pay for it later on, when Sgt. Fury went partially reprint in the early 1970s and he found himself without regular work).

[Prince Namor]

Something else that someone picked up on about the 'Uru' Hammer:

Quickly scanning JOURNEY INTO MYSTERY #85 -#91 (the last Lieber issue). After the term Uru Hammer is first used in issue #85 I can't find Lieber using it again. All mentions of the hammer are either "Enchanted Hammer" or "Magic Hammer" with the exception of two editor's notes in issues #86 and #89 where the editor (one would assume Lee) mentions in his note the Uru Hammer and how tapping it on the ground can produce lighting. So unless Lieber wrote the editor's notes Lieber only used the term in issue #85 . The next mention of Uru Hammer in a balloon or caption is in issue #92 which is credited to Lee (plot) and Robert Bernstein.

[Steven Valdez]

On 5/7/2023 at 11:48 PM, Prince Namor said:

ON NEWSSTANDS SEPTEMBER 1963

Strange Tales #115 - 'Written' By: Stan Lee  Drawn by: Dick Ayers  Lettered by: Art Simek

Cover by Jack Kirby with inks by Steve Ditko (natch!)

Sandman. What a dunce. Breaks out of jail just so he can fight Spider-man? Duh.

This is a pretty typical Stan Lee 'plot': Borrow a villain from another book, have them fight somewhere interesting (George Washington bridge). Ayers does a decent job pacing it and it reads pretty easy. 

Mr Ayers using the wrong end of the brush as usual. I see he was unable to keep Spidey's webbing design consistent as well (see panel 2 page 9). Then again, neither Ditko or Kirby could always get it right either.

[Dr. Haydn]

On 5/9/2023 at 12:19 PM, Prince Namor said:

 

 

ON NEWSSTANDS SEPTEMBER 1963

Tales of Suspense #48 - Story Plot: Stan Lee  Script & Art: Larry Lieber  Inking: G. Bell  Lettering: Art Simek

A Ditko-esque "sin and retribution" tale--though I think Steve (with Stan) did this type of story much better.

[Dr. Haydn]

On 5/10/2023 at 5:51 AM, Steven Valdez said:

Mr Ayers using the wrong end of the brush as usual. I see he was unable to keep Spidey's webbing design consistent as well (see panel 2 page 9). Then again, neither Ditko or Kirby could always get it right either.

Since the Human Torch was wearing the costume on pages 7-8, it was presumable a cheap knockoff purchased as a costume shop. It also had to fit awkwardly over the Torch's own costume. (Yup, I'm trying for a no-prize here.) That's as good an excuse as any to explain why Spidey was off model. No good excuse for page 2, though--but since it's a flashback, perhaps the costume was rendered as Johnny remembered it.

OK, maybe Ayers was a lousy inker.

Edited May 10, 2023 by Dr. Haydn
minor rewording

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS OCTOBER 1963

 

For October, Marvel would release 12 titles to the newsstand. That's 120 titles for 1963 so far, or 12 a month. 

6 superhero books - 2 Western - 4 comedy/romance (Same as last month)

 

Number of titles released to the Newsstand this month by each publisher:

DC - 30 (+1), Charlton - 23 (-1), Harvey - 23 (+13), Gold Key - 17 (+2), Marvel - 12 (-1), Archie - 8 (-2), Dell - 5 (-7), ACG - 4 (+4)

 

October 1st, 1963

Journey Into Mystery #99

Kathy #26

Modeling with Millie #28

Patsy Walker #112

Tales to Astonish #51

Two Gun Kid #67

 

October 8th, 1963

Amazing Spider-man #8

Fantastic Four #22

Kid Colt Outlaw #114

Millie the Model #118

Strange Tales #116

Tales of Suspense #49

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS OCTOBER 1963

Journey Into Mystery #99 - 'Written' By: Stan Lee  Illustrated by: Don Heck  Lettered by: Art Simek

Cover by Jack Kirby with inks by George Roussos

I didn't realize that Thor, more than any other character would be the one to expose just how much different Marvel would be without Jack Kirby... to think of how much Stan would nitpick the work of others... this story is silly. The dialogue is poorly done. Heck's artwork is ok to average, but it's not helped by his heavy handed inking. Mister Hyde is as strong as 12 men, and THAT is going to compete with Thor?

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS OCTOBER 1963

Journey Into Mystery #99 - Presented with pride by Stan Lee and Jack Kirby. (i.e. Kirby did ALL of this. You seriously think the guy who scripted the main story also did THIS one???)

George Roussos also did the inks on this story and Artie Simek the lettering.