Stan, Jack, and Steve - The 1960's (1963) Butting Heads, Unexpected Success and Not Expected Failures! 3 3

[Prince Namor]

On 5/20/2023 at 7:48 AM, Dr. Haydn said:

Agreed--the Masterworks reprints and omnibus books are overly bright. You lose most of the subtleties of the original colors.

And the huge white borders around the pages... what's up with that?

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS NOVEMBER 1963

Journey Into Mystery #100 - 'Written*' By: Stan Lee  Illustrated** by: Don Heck  Lettered by: S. Rosen

Cover by Jack Kirby with inks by Sol Brodsky

This really is, WAY below average in terms of art, story, dialogue... the only thing I can say about this turd is - hurry up and bring Kirby back to the book!! (The MAIN part of the book!)

Part ONE:

*In no way did Stan Lee 'write' these stories, though in this instance, he may've done more than usual because he was working with Don Heck - who wasn't exactly a story writing machine. Which is an excuse you can use for how lame this story is. BUT... the dialogue is ALL Stan. And it's a stinker. The 20th century Shakespeare seems to have lost his touch without Kirby providing content.

**By 'Illustrated' they mean, that the artist would provide story ideas to the editor, which would then be turned into an actual story by the writer/artist, including the pacing, fleshed out ideas, what is being said, etc. Most likely a lot less so with Don Heck who also had to ink this story. Not one of his best, by any means.  

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS NOVEMBER 1963

Journey Into Mystery #100 - 'Written*' By: Stan Lee  Drawn** by: Jack Kirby  Inked by: P. Reinman   Lettered by: Art Simek

 

 

*In no way did Stan Lee 'write' these stories. In this instance especially, Kirby probably delivered this story complete and explained to Stan what the characters were doing and saying in each panel. Stan then wrote the dialogue in.

**He did more than 'draw' - Kirby would provide story ideas to the editor, which would then be turned into an actual story by the writer/artist (Kirby), including the pacing, fleshed out ideas, what is being said, etc. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 20, 2023 by Prince Namor

[Dr. Haydn]

Jim 100 concludes another rare two-parter, like the recent Giant-Man/Wasp story vs. the Human Top. Once again, I wonder if it might have been planned as an oversize lead story for an annual that fell through. Both of those stories would have been an impressive 25 pages without the extra splash page for part 2---kinda like the 25-page Avengers #3 extravaganza, which also reads like a "special event" story for an annual.

[Steven Valdez]

On 5/20/2023 at 9:48 PM, Dr. Haydn said:

Agreed--the Masterworks reprints and omnibus books are overly bright. You lose most of the subtleties of the original colors.

 

So true, those comics weren't intended for bright, glossy paper.

[Steven Valdez]

On 5/20/2023 at 10:04 PM, Prince Namor said:

 

ON NEWSSTANDS NOVEMBER 1963

Journey Into Mystery #100 - 'Written*' By: Stan Lee  Illustrated** by: Don Heck  Lettered by: S. Rosen

Cover by Jack Kirby with inks by Sol Brodsky

This really is, WAY below average in terms of art, story, dialogue... the only thing I can say about this turd is - hurry up and bring Kirby back to the book!! (The MAIN part of the book!)

Part ONE:

*In no way did Stan Lee 'write' these stories, though in this instance, he may've done more than usual because he was working with Don Heck - who wasn't exactly a story writing machine. Which is an excuse you can use for how lame this story is. BUT... the dialogue is ALL Stan. And it's a stinker. The 20th century Shakespeare seems to have lost his touch without Kirby providing content.

**By 'Illustrated' they mean, that the artist would provide story ideas to the editor, which would then be turned into an actual story by the writer/artist, including the pacing, fleshed out ideas, what is being said, etc. Most likely a lot less so with Don Heck who also had to ink this story. Not one of his best, by any means.  

The only way that artwork could have been worse is if it was Heck inked by Mr Ayers. Look at that guy to the left on the splash page... why is he floating? And why are Thor's hands so tiny?

[Prince Namor]

On 5/20/2023 at 8:16 AM, Dr. Haydn said:

Jim 100 concludes another rare two-parter, like the recent Giant-Man/Wasp story vs. the Human Top. Once again, I wonder if it might have been planned as an oversize lead story for an annual that fell through. Both of those stories would have been an impressive 25 pages without the extra splash page for part 2---kinda like the 25-page Avengers #3 extravaganza, which also reads like a "special event" story for an annual.

Most likely a lack of ideas contributed to it. Thor could pick Mr. Hyde up and throw him to the moon if he wanted - he's not really on Thor's level. Lee and Heck turn that villain into a 2 part story where nothing much really happens. 

[Steven Valdez]

On 5/21/2023 at 4:59 AM, Prince Namor said:

Most likely a lack of ideas contributed to it. Thor could pick Mr. Hyde up and throw him to the moon if he wanted - he's not really on Thor's level. Lee and Heck turn that villain into a 2 part story where nothing much really happens. 

Mr Hyde would have been more at home as a Daredevil villain. In fact, maybe he was!

[Dr. Haydn]

On 5/20/2023 at 1:59 PM, Prince Namor said:

Most likely a lack of ideas contributed to it. Thor could pick Mr. Hyde up and throw him to the moon if he wanted - he's not really on Thor's level. Lee and Heck turn that villain into a 2 part story where nothing much really happens. 

Still, 2-parters were unknown in early Marvel. Was Stan testing the waters for the possibility of doing continued stories on a regular basis? Jack and Steve might have been pushing for this--certainly both of them were capable of plotting and pacing an extended epic, as we would soon see from 1964 onward.

[Prince Namor]

On 5/21/2023 at 7:54 AM, Dr. Haydn said:

Still, 2-parters were unknown in early Marvel. Was Stan testing the waters for the possibility of doing continued stories on a regular basis? Jack and Steve might have been pushing for this--certainly both of them were capable of plotting and pacing an extended epic, as we would soon see from 1964 onward.

Absolutely (and they'd already done a two part Doom story in FF), but I can't imagine Stan, or rather Don Heck having the ability to plan that out. Or if they did... well, there was the result. One of the more horribly written and drawn Thor stories of the era. 

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS NOVEMBER 1963

Sgt. Fury #5 - 'Written*' By: Ex-Sgt. Stan Lee U.S. Army**  Illustrated*** by Ex-Infantryman: Jack Kirby  Inked by: G. Bell   Lettered by: S. Rosen

Cover by Jack Kirby with inks by George Rossous

*In no way did Stan Lee 'write' these stories. In this instance, Jack Kirby probably presented the idea, Stan 'approved', and then Kirby would then 'write' the actual story as he does the artwork. Jack would then explain to Lee what the story was, what the characters were saying, where the dialogue should go, etc. - Lee would then provide the dialogue (he wouldn't allow the artists to write in actual dialogue).

**Actually the U.S Army Signal Corps, serving his entire time here in the U.S.

***By 'Illustrated' they mean, that the Kirby would provide story ideas to the editor, which would then be turned into an actual story by the Kirby, including the pacing, fleshed out ideas, what is being said, character creation, etc. In this instance (on the Sgt Fury books), Jack used his actual military experience, as well as his professional experience (Jack had done many war stories previous) to write this story. 

Part ONE:

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS NOVEMBER 1963

Sgt. Fury #5 - 

Part TWO:

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS NOVEMBER 1963

Sgt. Fury #5 - 

Part THREE:

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS NOVEMBER 1963

Sgt. Fury #5 - AD for the Avengers #3

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS NOVEMBER 1963

Sgt. Fury #5 - 

[Dr. Haydn]

Re: Journey into Mystery 100:

No mention of him in the credits, but Heck's scratchy inking almost has a Colletta vibe to it (see below). Do you think Vince the Prince might have had a hand in some of the finished art?

Edited May 21, 2023 by Dr. Haydn
added issue number

[Steven Valdez]

On 5/22/2023 at 4:32 AM, Dr. Haydn said:

Re: Journey into Mystery 100:

No mention of him in the credits, but Heck's scratchy inking almost has a Colletta vibe to it (see below). Do you think Vince the Prince might have had a hand in some of the finished art?

What's Thor running on in that last panel, I wonder?

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS NOVEMBER 1963

Tales to Astonish #52 - 'Written*' By: Stan Lee  Illustrated** by: Dick Ayers  Lettered by: Art Simek

Cover by Jack Kirby with inks by Sol Brodsky

This really is, WAY below average in terms of art, story, dialogue... the only thing I can say about this turd is - hurry up and bring Kirby back to the book!! (The MAIN part of the book!)

Part ONE:

*In no way did Stan Lee 'write' these stories, though in this instance, he may've done more than usual because he was working with Dick Ayers - who should get equal credit for this goofy story. BUT... the dialogue is ALL Stan. And it's a stinker. Again, the 20th century Shakespeare seems to have lost his touch without Kirby providing content.

**By 'Illustrated' they mean, that the artist would provide story ideas to the editor, which would then be turned into an actual story by the writer/artist, including the pacing, fleshed out ideas, what is being said, etc. According to Dick Ayers, who also had to ink this story, he did a lot of that FOR Stan when working with him. Not that he should brag about this one though...

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS NOVEMBER 1963

Tales to Astonish #52 -

Part TWO:

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS NOVEMBER 1963

Tales to Astonish #52 - These panels back to back just cracked me up...