CGC grading guarantee? 3 3

[SpiderParker]

I was curious how CGC handles improper grading.  For instance, here is a book on eBay.  I did not link it because I am not sure if that's allowed.  The image isn't the greatest but you can tell something might be going on on the top left and bottom left corner(s).  So I reach out to the guy for better photos of the corner(s).  I get the following photos (below).  I know grading is subjective and all but if this is a 9.8 then I have a lot of 9.8's sitting in my drawer, lol.  There is no way this is a 9.8.  I am certainly not a good grader but I would say a 9.0 at best?        

If a buyer buys this and gets this book I would have to assume they will be very unhappy.  Is there any recourse, not just on this book but any book for a buyer?  I mean if someone pays a 9.8 premium and clearly doesn't get a 9.8 book what can be done?   

 

  

 

[theCapraAegagrus]

If that's a common MFG defect, then it's allowable up to 9.8 in grade.

The only recourse is that the buyer can re-submit to CGC.

[zzutak]

On 3/28/2023 at 11:11 AM, SpiderParker said:

I mean if someone pays a 9.8 premium and clearly doesn't get a 9.8 book what can be done?  

One "solves" the problem by avoiding it in the first place (by passing on this specimen).  It's called "due diligence" and it's exactly what you've done by requesting more detailed images to supplement the seller's listing.  "Buy the book, not the label" is more important now than ever before. 

[SpiderParker]

On 3/28/2023 at 2:33 PM, theCapraAegagrus said:

If that's a common MFG defect, then it's allowable up to 9.8 in grade.

The only recourse is that the buyer can re-submit to CGC.

What would resubmitting do for the buyer?  It would have to get a downgrade.  

 

In the coin collecting world PCGS stands behind anything they grade and buys currency back at the inflated price if a coin is fake or not properly graded. 

[SpiderParker]

On 3/28/2023 at 2:52 PM, zzutak said:

One "solves" the problem by avoiding it in the first place (by passing on this specimen).  It's called "due diligence" and it's exactly what you've done by requesting more detailed images to supplement the seller's listing.  "Buy the book, not the label" is more important now than ever before. 

100% agree on this.  CGC needs to take ownership though because so many folks don't do this.  They see the grade and buy based on that grade.  

[Axe Elf]

The real question is if a book has an inherent grade independent from the grader.

Is the book a 9.8 (or 9.6, or 5.0, or whatever), independent of anyone actually grading it, or is the book whatever a grader says it is, and it has no inherent grade until that point (and thereafter, it's grade is the grade the grader said it was).

In the first case, the book is not a 9.8 because it has the damage you highlighted, and in the other case, the book is a 9.8 because that's what the grader said it was.

[1950's war comics]

i don't think coins can change inside the slab after being graded , comics can......

[SpiderParker]

On 3/28/2023 at 9:33 PM, Nevah said:

How is it CGC's fault if people don't do their due diligence? 

Theoreticaly no one should have to if CGC does their job right and doesn't assign heinous grades.  They are the "experts" in the grading community. I completely understand that grading is subjective but 99% of collectors would agree that the book in the original post is not a 9.8.  So how does CGC the gold standard in comic grading give it a 9.8?

Look at it from both sides.  How is it a buyers fault for paying a premium for a CGC graded book?  Grading companies provide standards and authentication for collectors at every level.  Many collectors would not touch certain books if they weren't graded.  A certain feeling of confidence and trust goes into the premium pricing that graded collectibles command.   Otherwise, why do they even exist?  

[SpiderParker]

On 3/28/2023 at 6:33 PM, Axe Elf said:

The real question is if a book has an inherent grade independent from the grader.

Is the book a 9.8 (or 9.6, or 5.0, or whatever), independent of anyone actually grading it, or is the book whatever a grader says it is, and it has no inherent grade until that point (and thereafter, it's grade is the grade the grader said it was).

In the first case, the book is not a 9.8 because it has the damage you highlighted, and in the other case, the book is a 9.8 because that's what the grader said it was.

Lol, way too philosophical.  The community has a certain level of grading standards.  If not, then the same book in different conditions would all sell for the same price.  I have a feeling that if you blindly posted that book in the spare a grade forum that we would not see a single 9.8.  

[Lightning55]

On 3/28/2023 at 9:48 PM, 1950's war comics said:

i don't think coins can change inside the slab after being graded , comics can......

This, exactly. Who is to say that the comic looked like this at the time of grading?

Things can happen during shipping, handling, dropping , etc. CGC only guaratees the grade as it exits the door. If the original submitter questions the grade, better or worse, they can ask for a review. A third party asking to review an apparent overgrade probably won't fly, since there is no way of knowing the history of the comic after it left CGC. No longer their problem.

[Lightning55]

On 3/28/2023 at 2:33 PM, theCapraAegagrus said:

If that's a common MFG defect, then it's allowable up to 9.8 in grade.

And this is also true. 

[onlyweaknesskryptonite]

On this episode of 

[Sassitude]

On 3/29/2023 at 8:52 AM, onlyweaknesskryptonite said:

On this episode of 

[SpiderParker]

Edit

Edited March 29, 2023 by SpiderParker

[SpiderParker]

On 3/28/2023 at 9:48 PM, 1950's war comics said:

i don't think coins can change inside the slab after being graded , comics can......

 

On 3/29/2023 at 1:13 AM, Lightning55 said:

This, exactly. Who is to say that the comic looked like this at the time of grading?

Things can happen during shipping, handling, dropping , etc. CGC only guaratees the grade as it exits the door. If the original submitter questions the grade, better or worse, they can ask for a review. A third party asking to review an apparent overgrade probably won't fly, since there is no way of knowing the history of the comic after it left CGC. No longer their problem.

Posted just now

I get your point but PCGS also guarantees paper currency the same as coins.  

[SpiderParker]

Interesting to see all the responses.  Thanks for sharing your thoughts everyone. 

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 3/28/2023 at 3:06 PM, SpiderParker said:

What would resubmitting do for the buyer?  It would have to get a downgrade.  

 

In the coin collecting world PCGS stands behind anything they grade and buys currency back at the inflated price if a coin is fake or not properly graded. 

Well, if it's a common MFG defect, then it's not incorrectly graded. I'm simply not sure if it is.

[SpiderParker]

On 3/29/2023 at 6:52 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

Well, if it's a common MFG defect, then it's not incorrectly graded. I'm simply not sure if it is.

I don't think it is.  I have seen other 9.8's that look like what we expect from a 9.8.  No corner damage.  

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 3/29/2023 at 6:55 AM, SpiderParker said:

I don't think it is.  I have seen other 9.8's that look like what we expect from a 9.8.  No corner damage.  

"Common" does not mean "on every copy". It means that it's common enough of a MFG defect that it's not held against the grade, outside of keeping it from Mint/Gem Mint.

[SpiderParker]

On 3/29/2023 at 6:37 AM, Nevah said:

Look up SCS, Shaken Comic Syndrome.

Interesting.   Never knew about this.  Poor case design?  Obviously if you give an object room to move, it will.  

 

FFor others that may not know.

Another

Edited March 29, 2023 by SpiderParker