Found this signed FF 46 - thoughts ? 1 1

[JoeBrrr]

So I was at golden age collectibles in Seattle and I saw one of the “wall books” was this Stan Lee signed FF 46 (1st inhumans). It was graded VG+ and obviously I’d need to take a closer look two questions before I go prying. 
 

what would a $600 raw book need to truly be post grading to make it worth that tag? If not what’s a fair value for a VG/VG+
 

the signature is a great looking Stan Lee sig and I’ve sadly sold my Stan sigs a while ago. It does look accurate and the owner says it’s from a customer who went to ECCC (photo evidence but you never can trust that imo). 
 

what does this mean for the books value, green label right ?  would it count against the book if say I got another sig and it became a Yellow/Green slab?

lastly I’m not the best Judging low grade raw SA. what should I look out for, what should I ask about - and with negotiating (I’ve done this on slabs and lots) how do you really drive your price closer to a happy medium ?

 

(ohhh and anyway to tell if it’s Ben pressed and cleaned - is a book this old and signed even a candidate)?

[MattTheDuck]

I'm not a "signed book" collector, so that part doesn't interest me personally.  I can say that if CGC did not witness this signature, they will not consider it as a "signature series" book or a legitimate signature - if you slab it.  You'll get some label notation like "Stan Lee written on front cover."  I can also say that I very recently bought this issue already slabbed (but unsigned) at a ComicLink auction for not a whole lot more than they're asking for this raw book.  Unsigned FF #46's in similar condition - but already slabbed - recently sold for about $160.

[JoeBrrr]

On 3/29/2023 at 8:46 PM, MattTheDuck said:

I'm not a "signed book" collector, so that part doesn't interest me personally.  I can say that if CGC did not witness this signature, they will not consider it as a "signature series" book or a legitimate signature - if you slab it.  You'll get some label notation like "Stan Lee written on front cover."  I can also say that I very recently bought this issue already slabbed (but unsigned) at a ComicLink auction for not a whole lot more than they're asking for this raw book.  Unsigned FF #46's in similar condition - but already slabbed - recently sold for about $160.

Edited March 30, 2023 by JoeBrrr

[JoeBrrr]

Can’t figure out how to do a quote   

so what grade was the copy slabbed for $160?

as for the signature - is the green label pretty much a death kiss?

will they take grade points off too?

 

perhaps most importantly. 
going in later to see the vaulted books and back issues - I have to make an appointment with the owner. if I am negotiating and I have comp sales and data - is it frowned upon to bring this up with prices on a cellphone or sheets ?

[MattTheDuck]

On 3/29/2023 at 9:26 PM, JoeBrrr said:

Can’t figure out how to do a quote   

so what grade was the copy slabbed for $160?

as for the signature - is the green label pretty much a death kiss?

will they take grade points off too?

 

perhaps most importantly. 
going in later to see the vaulted books and back issues - I have to make an appointment with the owner. if I am negotiating and I have comp sales and data - is it frowned upon to bring this up with prices on a cellphone or sheets ?

Site takes a while to get the hang of.

The pricing is from GPA Analysis.  They compile sales from a variety of sources, but not all sources.  About a week ago, they posted a sale of a 4.0 at $175 and a 4.5 at $145 (so I basically averaged those two numbers).  The fact that the "better" book went for less money should tell you the answer to your questions about negotiating/comp sales etc is you absolutely need to know what books are selling for and use that information. 

Because I don't slab books, I'm not sure what impact it would have on the grading piece or what color label you'd end up with.

[MattTheDuck]

Here's a recent thread discussing an "unverified" signature you might find valuable.

 

[JoeBrrr]

Thanks guys!

Im not a huge SA key collector. Anything I should look for ala complete inserts missing. 

[MattTheDuck]

Buy the book, not the grade.  On early 60s Marvels, particularly, watch out for "Marvel chipping" along the edges of the cover.  If you're buying a slab, how does the book present?  Are the colors still bright?  If it matters to you, what is the page quality - white, white/off white, off white, cream.  A lot of collectors don't want SA books with cream pages, or cream/off white ("CR/OW").  For raw books, make sure the book is complete - count the pages, make sure there are no coupons cut out on the inside, or pages missing or interior tears- and that the book is attached at the staples in the centerfold and on the cover.  Same "appearance" idea as above - does the book look nice?  Does it lay flat? Is there a spine roll or subscription crease?  Water damage, tape pulls, etc?

[grebal]

On 3/30/2023 at 12:08 AM, JoeBrrr said:

Thanks guys!

Im not a huge SA key collector. Anything I should look for ala complete inserts missing. 

There are pinups in a bunch of issues (and if removed from comic it gets a CGC grade 0.5 "incomplete" or something).

E.g. recent books I've bought at a discount because "missing p. 12" (which was a pinup in both cases) include ASM 1 and X-Men 6.  The pinups were started early too, in Fantastic Four 2, 3 and 4 for example.  There's probably a list of which comics had pinups somewhere out there.

[comicginger1789]

Book does not have a pin up but you still wanna flip through to check for no cut coupons.

As for the asking price, $600 is a pandemic price. That book as others have said as a VG is maybe $120-150 raw. Tops. A Stan Lee signature (which looks legit but you will never be 100% sure of that unless you paid another company to verify it and even then CGC won’t care) is not worth 4x the value. I’d value it at around a $400-450 comic tops.

[JollyComics]

Two words for unverified Stan Lee's signature are STAY AWAY!!!!

Since Stan Lee's death, there are so many forgeries even you can't tell it was authentic signature.  Sadly, someone can master the Stan Lee signature and it can fool CBSC that gave the verification of Stan Lee's signatures but they don't give the yellow label as CGC does. 

Just STAY AWAY.  Too many suckers bought them.

Be aware of this if you are not aware.  FYI, Tonfulle-84 is no longer active.

 

Edited March 30, 2023 by JollyComics

[comicginger1789]

On 3/30/2023 at 10:16 AM, JollyComics said:

Two words for unverified Stan Lee's signature are STAY AWAY!!!!

Since Stan Lee's death, there are so many forgeries even you can't tell it was authentic signature.  Sadly, someone can master the Stan Lee signature and it can fool CBSC that gave the verification of Stan Lee's signatures but they don't give the yellow label as CGC does. 

Just STAY AWAY.  Too many suckers bought them.

Be aware of this if you are not aware.  FYI, Tonfulle-84 is no longer active.

 

Lol I would not call this guys work “mastering” Stans signature. A quick look from anyone even remotely familiar will tell you those are fake. Plus on books that true fans would be unlikely to ever have him sign…red flags. But you are right if one wants to avoid buying a fake signatur, stick to yellow slabs only and you should never be burned.

[JollyComics]

On 3/30/2023 at 10:42 AM, comicginger1789 said:

Lol I would not call this guys work “mastering” Stans signature. A quick look from anyone even remotely familiar will tell you those are fake. Plus on books that true fans would be unlikely to ever have him sign…red flags. But you are right if one wants to avoid buying a fake signatur, stick to yellow slabs only and you should never be burned.

I attended conventions where Stan Lee was a guest and signed my books in front of CGC employees and NYC Comics and Desert Wind Comics (before they fell hard) took care of my books being signed by Stan Lee from 2009 to 2016.  It's more authentic and secured effectively.  Right now, it's too much loose everywhere after Stan Lee passing. You are right that I am sticking to the yellow slabs.  I felt bad for anyone are burned as hell.

[grebal]

On 3/30/2023 at 4:19 AM, comicginger1789 said:

Book does not have a pin up but you still wanna flip through to check for no cut coupons.

 

Yeah, I was a dummy, thought he was talking about Marvel silver in general when he was obv talking about the FF 46.

[KCOComics]

Personally, I wouldn't buy a Stan signed book that wasn't verified by CGC. 

Because CGC won't authentic the signature, that writing on the cover will only bring the grade down or give you a qualified label. 

If getting a Stan signature is your goal there are many better options out there.  I would probably feel comfortable around $100 for that book.  

With all that said, I have no reason to think that's a fake signature. I'm not an expert, but having seen Stan sigs over the years, it looks legit to me. 

 

[MR SigS]

On 3/30/2023 at 7:16 AM, JollyComics said:

Sadly, someone can master the Stan Lee signature and it can fool CBSC that gave the verification of Stan Lee's signatures but they don't give the yellow label as CGC does. 

Unfortunately, their "verified" and witnessed sigs both get yellow labels now. 

Some say this gives them added exposure they wouldn't get otherwise, like if they were on a convention wall display mixed with yellow witnessed slabs. To me this feels the same as using "Not CGC" on eBay as it forces people to look at something they don't even want to consider, only in this case it would be "Not Witnessed". 

When they used a red label, you knew what you were looking at from a distance- It was "verified." If that wasn't your thing you could quickly move on to the witnessed. Of course, this is really only a problem at shows, or for people who don't read listing details.

Anyway, both get yellow now  

[JollyComics]

On 4/1/2023 at 4:44 PM, MR SigS said:

Unfortunately, their "verified" and witnessed sigs both get yellow labels now. 

Some say this gives them added exposure they wouldn't get otherwise, like if they were on a convention wall display mixed with yellow witnessed slabs. To me this feels the same as using "Not CGC" on eBay as it forces people to look at something they don't even want to consider, only in this case it would be "Not Witnessed". 

When they used a red label, you knew what you were looking at from a distance- It was "verified." If that wasn't your thing you could quickly move on to the witnessed. Of course, this is really only a problem at shows, or for people who don't read listing details.

Anyway, both get yellow now  

Ah, shucks!  Then avoid voldemort with the yellow label at all costs. 

[JoeBrrr]

Thanks guys!

I will be passing on this big time. 

[jcjames]

On 3/29/2023 at 8:29 PM, JoeBrrr said:

So I was at golden age collectibles in Seattle and I saw one of the “wall books” was this Stan Lee signed FF 46 (1st inhumans)...

 

BTW, FF46 is not 1st Inhumans. 

1st Inhumans was FF45 

[joeypost]

On 4/1/2023 at 5:51 PM, JollyComics said:

Ah, shucks!  Then avoid voldemort with the yellow label at all costs. 

If they don’t misplace them. Voldy has been really good at losing books.