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Milehigh ll

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If Chuck really did swear an oath at the MH1 find that he would do anything he could to further advance comics collecting as an industry, he should destroy the abundant multiples of the very valuable issues.

 

How is destroying comics going to advance comic collecting?

What you are suggesting is something that would drive up prices and line dealers pockets. Collectors would suffer as they would need to pay MORE to get the issues they want as the supply would be reduced. Please explain how you think this would HELP the hobby.

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I'll say this once again, if you bought the MH2 NM copies in 1977-80 or so, you got the real deal; crisp, clean NM/NM+ copies. After that, large dealers siphoned off the high-grade excess, and Chuck was left with the runts of the litter.

 

This is especially true of the MH2's sold in the 1990's, which cannot be compared to the issues sold off 20+ years prior.

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The MH2 collection was about 90% VF?NM . Books bought early on were true NM coies as Chuck sold off the good stuff first. Think about the problems with transporting 1.500,000 books,storing them over time and lugging them to and from shows and you will begin to understand how some ended up 6.5 or so. The MH 2 collection hit the market in the mid-80s if I recollect correctly and Chuck did an outstanding job of not destroying the market by flooding it all at once.He could have put just about every store out of the back issue market had he been so inclined.

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Not all the books I've bought from this collection were directly from MH, I keep trying to tell you this but you keep trying to write off all these non-NM books as runts which simply isn't true. I've only bought around 15 from MH. Of those only like 1-2 were NM. Of the rest that I've bought there were 4 NM's, 1 VF/NM, and the rest were below. Including some silver age MH2 books..

 

Brian

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If Chuck really did swear an oath at the MH1 find that he would do anything he could to further advance comics collecting as an industry, he should destroy the abundant multiples of the very valuable issues.

 

How is destroying comics going to advance comic collecting?

What you are suggesting is something that would drive up prices and line dealers pockets. Collectors would suffer as they would need to pay MORE to get the issues they want as the supply would be reduced. Please explain how you think this would HELP the hobby.

 

How does it help the industry if valued keys are suddenly a dime-a-dozen? See my point? The comics collecting industry is dead if comics are reduced to mere colored pulp with no ascribed value anymore. If a cache of Hulk 181's were found, for example, it would DEVASTATE the market for this valued collectible.

 

To scold that such a find would lower the prices on these keys is short-sighted. If suddenly anyone can have them for a song, how does THAT help the industry? Comics values are predicated on the fact that these are in limited supply, which makes buyers and sellers willing to ascribe monetary value to them.

 

A dumpload of perfect keys would be the WORST thing for the industry.

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Not all the books I've bought from this collection were directly from MH, I keep trying to tell you this but you keep trying to write off all these non-NM books as runts which simply isn't true. I've only bought around 15 from MH. Of those only like 1-2 were NM. Of the rest that I've bought there were 4 NM's, 1 VF/NM, and the rest were below. Including some silver age MH2 books..

 

Brian

 

The question isn't where, but WHEN. If you weren't buying the mid-80's, you aren't likely to get the primo copies. Those were either sold to collectors or dealers, who promptly hoarded them.

 

The ones left over or that made it to resale (unslabbed) are the runts. If CGC pt a MH2 notation on their slab, I think you'd be surprised as to how many CGC NM or higher copies are represented.

 

I do agree that not all MH2 copies are NM, but your numbers are way off.

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How does it help the industry if valued keys are suddenly a dime-a-dozen? See my point.

 

Not sure if that would be a problem. It could be a problem if and only if that case of HULK 181's suddenly appeared on e-bay and all were sold at the same time. For the seller, that would be foolish and most people I suspect would be smart enought not to do that. Obviously Chuck played it cool and proper by releasing the books slowly.

 

Anyway, everyone knows there are a boatload of Captain America 100's and Iron Man 1's out there somewhere, and because of the way they are being handled, the back issue prices for those 2 particular comics have not suffered a whole lot.

 

 

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And going back to the GA, there were large warehouse finds of the harvey books and that THING 16, but their prices have not suffered even though many are in high grade.

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That's because comic books have always sold on the illusion of age-based scarcity. I think most collectors understand that there are high-grade stacks of virtually any post-1960's comic, but don't care because they'd love to own the comic regardless how many there are.

 

The speculators do care, and many times get very angry when this is brought up, mainly because they fell for the illusion of scarcity and only buy comics for mercenary purposes.

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To scold that such a find would lower the prices on these keys is short-sighted. If suddenly anyone can have them for a song, how does THAT help the industry? Comics values are predicated on the fact that these are in limited supply, which makes buyers and sellers willing to ascribe monetary value to them.

 

Er no.

Comic collecting is a hobby,and true collectors look for and buy the books because they want to own them NOT because of their monetary value. You are speaking from the perspective of a dealer/speculator who would certainly be harmed by an influx of HG material.

Collectors would not, they would be able to get the books they want for less money, which from my POV as a COLLECTOR is a good thing.

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I strongly believe that a cache of Hulk #181 would not destroy the market for this book IF it was placed into the market over a period of time. In fact, I believe that there is a large supply of high-grade copies still out there in the hands of collectors which have still not been CGC yet. I know that when I bought my high-grade copy about 25 years ago, there was still over 15 other high-grade copies left in the dealer's box when I left. I just picked out the best of the lot for myself. I knew a lot of collectors at the time and virtually everyone of them has high-grade copies of this common book.

 

I have not bothered to CGC this book yet and the collectors which I know have also not CGC their copies yet. Although it would most likely not fall into the 9.6 - 9.8 range, I am sure that it would be somewhere in the 9.2 - 9.4 range. This is why I think it is absolutely insane for anyone to pay close to $20,000 for a high-grade copy of Hulk #181. This book like most other books from the 1970's is so common that there are bound to be other equally high-grade copies out there waiting to be graded.

 

Actually, from my point of view, additional high-grade copies of books can help to spur the market on since it provides a turnover factor for that particular book. I am basically a high-grade Golden-Age collector and I feel that the low quantities of particular issues of G.A. books can actually work against price increases for these types of books. In order for collectors/investors to become interested in a book, there must be a SUPPLY of books to feed the DEMAND.

 

As a result, collectors are not willing to pay multiples of guide for rare high-grade Golden-Age books which may have less than a handful of high-grade copies and yet be willing to pay even higher multiples of guide for a common book such as Hulk #181 of X-Men #94 which number in the hundreds and may number in the thousands after factoring in all of the ones still sitting in collections ungraded. This is why we have a marketplace whereby a CGC 9.0 copy of New Book of Comics (OPG VF price of $6,500) or a CGC 9.4 copy of Wonderworld Comics #3 (OPG NM price of $8,200) cannot fetch $20,000 yet a copy of Hulk #181 can. To me, this is absolutely insane considering that the first two books are from the 1930's with very limited supply while the Hulk is a relatively common book from the 1970's. In addition, the first book is an extremely rare Pre-hero DC book which surpasses Overstreet's highest listed grade while the second book is basically an #1 issue from the extremely hard to find Fox company.

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Er no.

Comic collecting is a hobby,and true collectors look for and buy the books because they want to own them NOT because of their monetary value. You are speaking from the perspective of a dealer/speculator who would certainly be harmed by an influx of HG material.

Collectors would not, they would be able to get the books they want for less money, which from my POV as a COLLECTOR is a good thing.

 

I couldn't agree more. I think dealing in comics is a perfectly respectable activity (afterall, I get most of my stuff from dealers), but at the end of the day I would be elated if I could somehow get a complete run of Thor for $50. Scarcity and rarity allow for the thrill of hunting down and finally finding an issue, but my goal is to get and read the comics. It took me 15 years to put a pretty decent run of X-Men together...it would have been a lot less if the books weren't so bloddy expensive. I wouldn't even consider starting a collection of that run today.

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That's because comic books have always sold on the illusion of age-based scarcity. I think most collectors understand that there are high-grade stacks of virtually any post-1960's comic, but don't care because they'd love to own the comic regardless how many there are.

 

I think you may have to qualify this to:

 

"high-grade stacks of virtually any post-1960's MARVEL comic".

 

Because I've never heard of big hoards of DCs. I would dearly love to find a nice set of high grade Superboys, Actions and Supermans from the 60s. I just haven't seen them - or even heard of anyone who knows of them.

 

I have seen, once and a great while, a single collection that might have a nice high grade run of a few of these DCs, but most of those collections are mainly Marvels.

 

I think that was the nature of the comic collector at the time.

 

But if anyone has any nice high-grade raw Superboys, Actions or Supermans from 1970 or before, let me know!

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I like it... can I light the match under the kindling? Just the image of Chuck setting a high grade comic on fire is fun... but thousands of them? hehe

 

Reminds me of the story in which Scrooge McDuck sinks every 1916 quarter but one to the bottom of the ocean, so that the sole remaining coin is priceless... then loses it and has to go searching for the ones he sank to get another one...

 

Garthgantu

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Joe,

 

I think I may have misinterpreted your post. I thought you meant 1960s comics, but after reading it again, I think you probably meant comics from after the 1960s.

 

I would think that much of my point still applies, but there are probably stacks of high grade DCs from the 1970s and up, just not as many stacks as there are of Marvels.

 

Sorry about that.

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