Heritage Auction and Multiple Copies of the Same Book

[143ksk]

It seems to me that there are far more same book, multiple copy offerings than usual in the current Heritage catalog. It also seems a little strange to me that they would want to auction books that are competing with each other, but it does offer some interesting comparisons.

 

For example, which will sell for more: All-Flash #1 CGC 8.0 with cream to off-white pages, or All-Flash #1 CGC 7.5 with white pages?

 

How about Weird Science #14 CGC 9.6 Gaines with off-white pages or Weird Science #14 CGC 9.6 Gaines with off-white to white pages?

 

Or George Pal's Puppetoons #1 CGC 9.0 Carson City with off-white pages versus George Pal's Puppetoons #1 CGC 9.0 Crowley cream to off-white.

 

Here's an interesting match-up: Hopalong Cassidy #1 CGC 9.2 Vancouver off-white to white and Hopalong Cassidy #1 CGC 9.0 Church off-white to white.

 

It should be interesting...

[Timulty]

Yeah, not to mention all those wonderful Crowley Copy Captain Marvel Adventures.

[esquirecomics]

What you have identified is simply further proof that Heritage is a pure money-maker business that has little interest in the hobby itself, or even maximizing profit on a specific item. They deal in volume, volume, volume.

 

Not saying there is anything wrong with that, though certainly there is much to criticize, but that is how it is. Which is kinda sad given that at least some of those who run/work for Heritage are comic book collectors.

[CW]

I only buy from them, but if I had put a big key book up for sale say in 8.0 and they listed another one right next to it in the auction at 8.5 I would be really pissed. I guess if they own both books outright or check with the seller first it would be alright but wow.

[esquirecomics]

I only buy from them, but if I had put a big key book up for sale say in 8.0 and they listed another one right next to it in the auction at 8.5 I would be really pissed. I guess if they own both books outright or check with the seller first it would be alright but wow.

 

I can tell you that when that same situation arose at Hakes, they checked with me first.

[Timulty]

More reason to buy from Hakes.

[adamstrange]

What you have identified is simply further proof that Heritage is a pure money-maker business that has little interest in the hobby itself, or even maximizing profit on a specific item. They deal in volume, volume, volume.

 

They will, as noted, put multiple books up in the same sale partly due to laziness and partly due to a belief that comics are similar to coins in that the same issue in different grades has different potential buyers. This is true in the case of Flash 1 MH but not likely to be true in most other cases. What is bad for sellers, however, is good for buyers. And sometimes, counterintuitively speaking, attracting more buyers by making them think they will get bargains results in better prices for the sellers.

 

"little interest in the hobby itself"

 

Heritage is a for-profit concern that carried the comics division at a loss through a number of sales because Halperin is a fan of comics. They produce lavishly illustrated and generally well-written catalogs that, collectively, are the best we've seen in the hobby. They have not been cheap about how their host auctions either. There are many things to complain about with Heritage and there are probably quite a few threads to refer folks to, but just thought you were a little over the top.

[CW]

They produce lavishly illustrated and generally well-written catalogs that, collectively, are the best we've seen in the hobby.

Speaking of which I got mine today. Every other page has a screamer on it WOW. TEC's, Actions, Cap's galore.

[esquirecomics]

More reason to buy from Hakes.

 

Too bad they just recently implemented a BP, but I agree.

[esquirecomics]

What you have identified is simply further proof that Heritage is a pure money-maker business that has little interest in the hobby itself, or even maximizing profit on a specific item. They deal in volume, volume, volume.

 

They will, as noted, put multiple books up in the same sale partly due to laziness and partly due to a belief that comics are similar to coins in that the same issue in different grades has different potential buyers. This is true in the case of Flash 1 MH but not likely to be true in most other cases. What is bad for sellers, however, is good for buyers. And sometimes, counterintuitively speaking, attracting more buyers by making them think they will get bargains results in better prices for the sellers.

 

It is definitely good in the short term for buyers b/c it has reduced the prices. Whether this will be a good thing in the long term is yet to be seen. Many comic dealers are certainly not happy about it b/c customers then want to know why they can't buy a book at a "Heritage price". Well, the Heritage price is not a "real" price. It was a deflated one.

 

So many key issues being sold repeatedly time after time, and oftentimes the actual same book, is also giving the market a false impression of the rarity, or perceived lack thereof, of these beautiful HG GA books. IMHO. Not sure how beneficial that is to the community either.

 

"little interest in the hobby itself"

 

Heritage is a for-profit concern that carried the comics division at a loss through a number of sales because Halperin is a fan of comics. They produce lavishly illustrated and generally well-written catalogs that, collectively, are the best we've seen in the hobby. They have not been cheap about how their host auctions either. There are many things to complain about with Heritage and there are probably quite a few threads to refer folks to, but just thought you were a little over the top.

 

AS, of course Heritage is a for-profit enterprise, and that is why I do not besmirch them b/c they do not hide that fact of what they are. I am not at all aware that the comic side of the business loses money. I find that somewhat hard to believe actually. Can you shed further light on this?

 

In any event, Heritage doesn't do anything for anyone other than itself. Jim is an owner and he can do whatever he wants, which is great. They produce great catalogues b/c it is in their best business interest to do so, not b/c they care what we think as collectors. They care from a business standpoint. They get points from me for issuing such great catalogues. They get points from me for having a great online database. But lets not mistake why they are doing it.

 

I handle very specialized legal cases, and on many occasions I take on a client b/c I believe in the case even when that client has little to no money. There is a cause involved.

 

I don't believe there is a parallel situation comparable with Heritage.

 

Again, that is fine. There doesn't need to be. But I don't see my comments as being off-target, even if they might be considered harsh. The truth is sometimes.

 

If I am wrong on something, love to know otherwise.

 

[adamstrange]

I am not at all aware that the comic side of the business loses money. I find that somewhat hard to believe actually. Can you shed further light on this?

 

I wrote that "Heritage carried the comics division at a loss through a number of sales"

 

I assume they are profitable now and can't provide much insight as to when they hit break-even.

 

I'll respond a little bit more tomorrow on your other points.

[esquirecomics]

I am not at all aware that the comic side of the business loses money. I find that somewhat hard to believe actually. Can you shed further light on this?

 

I wrote that "Heritage carried the comics division at a loss through a number of sales"

 

I assume they are profitable now and can't provide much insight as to when they hit break-even.

 

I'll respond a little bit more tomorrow on your other points.

 

Take your time.

[tth2]

What you have identified is simply further proof that Heritage is a pure money-maker business that has little interest in the hobby itself, or even maximizing profit on a specific item. They deal in volume, volume, volume.

 

Not saying there is anything wrong with that, though certainly there is much to criticize, but that is how it is. Which is kinda sad given that at least some of those who run/work for Heritage are comic book collectors.

Actually, Heritage usually doesn't do this very much, or only with fairly wide discrepancies in grade so the target audiences for a book are presumably different, which I think is what makes the multiple copies in same or similar grade in this auction really stand out. So I think you're being a bit harsh in your judgment.

 

Previously, the books that were listed in duplicate most often were the Gaines EC books, and since many of those belong to Halperin, he's only screwing himself.

[Comicdey]

Just got my copy today.

 

Lots of duplication as everone has indicated.

 

A couple of my grails in there.

[143ksk]

My point in starting this thread was more to say that this is an opportunity for seeing how the market works rather than bashing Heritage for their choice of books.

 

Is it just me, or does anyone else think it's cool to have 2 completely equally matched ECs that differ only in page quality. Does the market care? Will they sell for the same price? If not, what will the difference be? Or will they all be RNM as is frequently the case?

 

I think it's an interesting, fairly well controlled experiment.

[tth2]

Is it just me, or does anyone else think it's cool to have 2 completely equally matched ECs that differ only in page quality. Does the market care? Will they sell for the same price? If not, what will the difference be? Or will they all be RNM as is frequently the case?

They will all be RNM. The ECs NEVER sell.

[rob_react]

Is it just me, or does anyone else think it's cool to have 2 completely equally matched ECs that differ only in page quality. Does the market care? Will they sell for the same price? If not, what will the difference be? Or will they all be RNM as is frequently the case?

They will all be RNM. The ECs NEVER sell.

 

They Halperin's? He's in no rush and it doesn't cost him anything.

[Norrin_Radd]

So many key issues being sold repeatedly time after time, and oftentimes the actual same book, is also giving the market a false impression of the rarity, or perceived lack thereof, of these beautiful HG GA books. IMHO. Not sure how beneficial that is to the community either.

 

I've had the same exact thought.

[esquirecomics]

What you have identified is simply further proof that Heritage is a pure money-maker business that has little interest in the hobby itself, or even maximizing profit on a specific item. They deal in volume, volume, volume.

 

Not saying there is anything wrong with that, though certainly there is much to criticize, but that is how it is. Which is kinda sad given that at least some of those who run/work for Heritage are comic book collectors.

Actually, Heritage usually doesn't do this very much, or only with fairly wide discrepancies in grade so the target audiences for a book are presumably different, which I think is what makes the multiple copies in same or similar grade in this auction really stand out. So I think you're being a bit harsh in your judgment.

 

Previously, the books that were listed in duplicate most often were the Gaines EC books, and since many of those belong to Halperin, he's only screwing himself.

 

Actually, from Jim's standpoint I don't know if he is screwing himself or not. He is the one who has set the reserve price so presumably he doesn't care if they don't sell. If someone wishes to meet the reserve, he is happy. So he "loses" nothing, and the catalogue looks great with all these HG ECs.

 

However, to collectors/investors, particularly the majority of people who don't know what we know, i.e., that these are Jim's copies, it gives the impression, at least to some, that (a) there are multiples and multiples of HG ECs floating around and/or (b) that ECs are somewhat dead in that they don't sell.

[Timulty]

What you have identified is simply further proof that Heritage is a pure money-maker business that has little interest in the hobby itself, or even maximizing profit on a specific item. They deal in volume, volume, volume.

 

Not saying there is anything wrong with that, though certainly there is much to criticize, but that is how it is. Which is kinda sad given that at least some of those who run/work for Heritage are comic book collectors.

Actually, Heritage usually doesn't do this very much, or only with fairly wide discrepancies in grade so the target audiences for a book are presumably different, which I think is what makes the multiple copies in same or similar grade in this auction really stand out. So I think you're being a bit harsh in your judgment.

 

Previously, the books that were listed in duplicate most often were the Gaines EC books, and since many of those belong to Halperin, he's only screwing himself.

 

Actually, from Jim's standpoint I don't know if he is screwing himself or not. He is the one who has set the reserve price so presumably he doesn't care if they don't sell. If someone wishes to meet the reserve, he is happy. So he "loses" nothing, and the catalogue looks great with all these HG ECs.

 

However, to collectors/investors, particularly the majority of people who don't know what we know, i.e., that these are Jim's copies, it gives the impression, at least to some, that (a) there are multiples and multiples of HG ECs floating around and/or (b) that ECs are somewhat dead in that they don't sell.

 

Your statement just affirms what I believe, that in order to effectively collect you have to be an expert in the items you collect. Be it antiques, coins, sports cards or comics. Investors should be familiar intimately with their investments, so such practices, as with the EC's, should not affect the market for those books. It does.

Which means that the majority of buyers are not doing their job. They get ripped off. They stop collecting. Dealers/sellers shouldn't be afraid to educated buyers on comics. Granted the buyer might ask more questions but in the end it will result in more sales.