FFB Posted April 1, 2006 Share Posted April 1, 2006 Top Staple... this is very painful to observe I thought you were talking about FLECKS of rust, which even then would be unusual on such "young" comics. This looks like some parasitic infection! Man, I am totally bummed for you. How are the covers? It's hard to believe that much moisture hasn't affected them in some way. I don't think that's moisture causing that. It looks more like serious corrosion caused by some other chemical in that safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BronzeBruce13 Posted April 1, 2006 Share Posted April 1, 2006 the other 3 only have the start... some grouped flecks. No where near what happened to this one. Its one of the oldest books in the safe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BronzeBruce13 Posted April 1, 2006 Share Posted April 1, 2006 something happend to the first post with this image??? Bottom Staple... if you can stomach it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BronzeBruce13 Posted April 1, 2006 Share Posted April 1, 2006 I agree with you since there is no "other" visible signs of moisture infiltration such as "wavy" pages or other paper damage like foxing, etc. I have heard that some coin owners (with coins made of precious metals - rust proof) have experienced other reactions (toning issues) within fireproof safes. Brian is thinking of helping me with this after I learn more information about the chemicals used in my safe. I find it hard to believe that the chemical is not at least a partial culprit if not the primary one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scheradon Posted April 1, 2006 Share Posted April 1, 2006 Wow Bruce, This really sucks! I also have a Sentry fire-proof safe, but only the one already damaged comic in it. I had planned to get a larger safe for my slabbed collection, but will now look into it very carefully. Don't feel bad about not knowing this could happen. Regardless of what some might say, I think there is a very large percentage of us that wouldn't have known it or assumed the relation of guns to staples. I too thought it had more to do with the ammunition. Heck, I'm racking my brain as I type trying to think if I have anything else potentially at risk in my safe back home. I hope they can save your books, keep us updated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skybolt Posted April 1, 2006 Share Posted April 1, 2006 Bruce, not that it would've made much of difference, but were your CGC books also bagged on the outside and sealed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aman619 Posted April 1, 2006 Share Posted April 1, 2006 something happend to the first post with this image??? Bottom Staple... if you can stomach it... wow... that is such a scary image!. ouch. Its like a horror movie where we see the staple actually being eaten alive...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awe4one Posted April 1, 2006 Share Posted April 1, 2006 This can't be the first, or second time judging by Steve's post, this has occurred. Collectors have been putting their comics in safes for decades. Why didn't this problem become evident when collectors were storing their comics in safes without slabs? Could it be some harmful process occurs with the interaction of the safe and slabs together? Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aman619 Posted April 1, 2006 Share Posted April 1, 2006 thats interesting....... but maybe its a recent spread of the usually smaller fire-resistant safes for the home that are selling in Home Depot and Staples. Didnt it used to be that buying a safe was a very rare occurance? and only done by companies you had to find in the Yellow Pages? And the buyers were jewelry companies etc?? Id hate to think the slabs are a factor chemically. With the PCS announcement this week, CGC is a good guy again!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awe4one Posted April 1, 2006 Share Posted April 1, 2006 thats interesting....... but maybe its a recent spread of the usually smaller fire-resistant safes for the home that are selling in Home Depot and Staples. Didnt it used to be that buying a safe was a very rare occurance? and only done by companies you had to find in the Yellow Pages? And the buyers were jewelry companies etc?? I've seen those small safes sold in Walmart/Home Depot/etc. since the early 80s. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aman619 Posted April 1, 2006 Share Posted April 1, 2006 ahhh, whadda I know... seems like a recent phenomenon to me. Or buying them for comic, especially the recently very expensive treasures comics have become, in slabs, maybe its more widespread. I looked at these safes a few times before I finally got my 3 ft high "industrial sized" one (holds 4 magazine boxes plus more stuff crammed in around them) but aside from the size, and portability (you could walk off with the whole thing!) the fire and heat protection was temporary and limited. They arent like the black boxes on airplanes that you dig up with contents intact in the rubble afterwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forbush-Man Posted April 1, 2006 Share Posted April 1, 2006 Bruce, are you going to contact the manufacturer of the safe's and try to get some form of damages? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FFB Posted April 1, 2006 Share Posted April 1, 2006 I agree with you since there is no "other" visible signs of moisture infiltration such as "wavy" pages or other paper damage like foxing, etc. I have heard that some coin owners (with coins made of precious metals - rust proof) have experienced other reactions (toning issues) within fireproof safes. Brian is thinking of helping me with this after I learn more information about the chemicals used in my safe. I find it hard to believe that the chemical is not at least a partial culprit if not the primary one. Bruce, If you have a CIA insurance policy, it should cover this type of damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FFB Posted April 1, 2006 Share Posted April 1, 2006 This can't be the first, or second time judging by Steve's post, this has occurred. Collectors have been putting their comics in safes for decades. Why didn't this problem become evident when collectors were storing their comics in safes without slabs? Could it be some harmful process occurs with the interaction of the safe and slabs together? Jim The inner well is made of Barex 210, which is more chemically resistant than Mylar as to most chemical types (except for Ketones, such as Acetone). I doubt it's the inner well reacting with a chemical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamstrange Posted April 1, 2006 Share Posted April 1, 2006 ahhh, whadda I know... seems like a recent phenomenon to me. Or buying them for comic, especially the recently very expensive treasures comics have become, in slabs, maybe its more widespread. I looked at these safes a few times before I finally got my 3 ft high "industrial sized" one (holds 4 magazine boxes plus more stuff crammed in around them) but aside from the size, and portability (you could walk off with the whole thing!) the fire and heat protection was temporary and limited. They arent like the black boxes on airplanes that you dig up with contents intact in the rubble afterwards. The clever boys in the labs are always working on new ideas. Perhaps they've come up with a better insulation against fire that happens to interact poorly with staples? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awe4one Posted April 1, 2006 Share Posted April 1, 2006 The inner well is made of Barex 210, which is more chemically resistant than Mylar as to most chemical types (except for Ketones, such as Acetone). I doubt it's the inner well reacting with a chemical. Could it be the outer well reacting with the effects seaping into the inner well? I agree with you that the damage looks more "chemical" related vs. just moisture...and the fact people have been using safes for years before CGC came into existence to store their comics with no damage, at least as related to comicdom at large, seems odd... Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CW Posted April 1, 2006 Share Posted April 1, 2006 Bruce Were the staples on the Hulk #182 aligned in a manner which had them in contact with the inner well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FFB Posted April 1, 2006 Share Posted April 1, 2006 The inner well is made of Barex 210, which is more chemically resistant than Mylar as to most chemical types (except for Ketones, such as Acetone). I doubt it's the inner well reacting with a chemical. Could it be the outer well reacting with the effects seaping into the inner well? I agree with you that the damage looks more "chemical" related vs. just moisture...and the fact people have been using safes for years before CGC came into existence to store their comics with no damage, at least as related to comicdom at large, seems odd... Jim Who knows? I would think that we'd see some degradation in the outer shell if that were the case. I don't see any in the scan, but maybe Bruce can shed some light on the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxstuf Posted April 1, 2006 Share Posted April 1, 2006 Would you not crack that out and get the staples cleaned/replaced at some point? Because isn't that rust soon going to affect the paper? What are the thoughts on that part of the issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CW Posted April 1, 2006 Share Posted April 1, 2006 I did a little research on Barex 210. The info I found stated that it is an extremely good oxygen barrier. I was wondering is the CGC inner well sealed to a point that it can trap moisture at the time of encapsulation. Is it possible that any moisture or humidity is being trapped in the inner well during the seal and not escaping because of Barex's ability to hold out (or in) oxygen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
