Important information about storing comic books in fire proof/resistant safes

[CW]

Thanks. I will try the PH paper. I have the Hygrometer and dehumidifier.

[divad]

WAY beyond cleaning . . .

 

Top Staple... this is very painful to observe

 

 

 

 

[LVCE-migration]

Is the safe you used the same one that Costco sells? If so, I need to check on my safes full of CGC books!

[LVCE-migration]

Top Staple... this is very painful to observe

 

 

 

 

 

AAAAAGGGGHHHHH!!!!!! It looks like the equivalent of Cancer for comic books!

[Mr. Zipper]

Thanks to Steve and Bruce for sharing this alarming information. After the first several posts I couldn't get to my safe fast enough. Apparently, my books look okay, but my heart goes out to Bruce.

 

Were the safes in question all METAL safes?

 

I've been using a Brinks molded safe for years similar to the safe on the right pictured below. I think I bought it at Wal-Mart. (I've found that a legal hanging file folder sized safe turned on it's side is the perfect fit for comics.)

 

On very close inspection, I found a bit of corrosion on the screws that secure the locking mechanism (on the outside of the safe). I can't help but wonder if materials inside the safe are offgassing through these screw holes and corroding the screws. Perhaps because the interior of the safe is solid plastic with no seams, the contents inside the safe were spared from the corrosive offgassing.

 

I've removed all my books in light of this info, but I am curious as to whether their could be a difference between the metal safes and the molded safes.

[worldsbestcomics]

I suppose, the Hulk 182 clearly will need the staples replaced to protect the book itself. Even if I do that though, and even if it would end up a green label "qualified" 9.8, I don't imagin it will be worth all that much... maybe not enough to have a professional charge me to put in vintage staples.

 

plus... it may be too depressing to see it in a green slab. My other option is to replace the staples myself and just throw it on my new spinner rack as a "reader" copy.

 

Bruce,

 

Get the 182 restored. It will still be beautiful even in a green label. If it depresses you and you want to find a new home for it, I know a guy...

 

But, seriously. Attitudes toward professional restoration have changed over the years, and may turn around again in the future. It is too soon to consign your baby to the Spinner Rack.

[jmg3637]

Bruce I am very sorry for your losses. and I want to thank you and Steve for really getting the discussion on this topic going.

 

I have been reading this thread and just getting sick tinking about it.

 

I have had my best books in a safe deposit box for years and was only worried about the potential heat and damage from that. Had never even thought about damage from oxidation/rust in there. Next time i go there I will bring a bunch of the silica gel pack with me and put them in for a bit of added safety

 

I had been thinking about getting a heavy duty fire-resistent file cabinet and bringing them home, but have put any thoughts of that on hold for the time being.

 

As I was reading this I certainly am thinking that the wet pressing then slabbing is a very likely part of the problem.

[Arty]

Top Staple... this is very painful to observe

 

 

 

 

 

Quite incredible. That staple is worse than any staple I have ever seen before. Looks like it has been in a salt bath for years. No way this was caused only by humidity.

 

You should buy two hygrometers and test outside and inside humidity of the safe simultaneously. Put a couple of iron items inside safe to see what happens. Maybe a small plate abraded with a sand paper to maximize surface area.

 

And finally, this is very important: If there is metal left under that crust, do not get those staples replaced. Cleaned: yes, but not replaced. e

[binarysunrise]

Perhaps because the interior of the safe is solid plastic with no seams, the contents inside the safe were spared from the corrosive offgassing.

 

Um, isn't plastic (at least among conservation people) one of the worst things to store in due to the offgassing of the *plastic*? Though I guess some plastic/pvc is worse than others...(otherwise why would CGC encapulate comics in plastic....)

[FFB]

As I was reading this I certainly am thinking that the wet pressing then slabbing is a very likely part of the problem.

 

Not likely, or you'd see it happening on all the books that we've seen in the resub upgrade database.

[FFB]

Perhaps because the interior of the safe is solid plastic with no seams, the contents inside the safe were spared from the corrosive offgassing.

 

Um, isn't plastic (at least among conservation people) one of the worst things to store in due to the offgassing of the *plastic*? Though I guess some plastic/pvc is worse than others...(otherwise why would CGC encapulate comics in plastic....)

 

Mylar is a plastic. It isn't the plastic that is the problem. It is the plasticizers and other additives that are the problem.

[binarysunrise]

Just checking - thought that perhaps cheaper safes might not use inert plastic in the interior housing...

[burntboy]

Bruce - i pulled out my Brochures from both Fort Knox and heritage safes and read through them carefully.

 

interesting to not e that both manufacturers offered a dehumidifier option. (which i did not take, BTW). both warned of the potential for moisture damage to guns and other valuables from humidity, but niether suggested that it was necessary. seems to me that they were thinking of environmental sources of excess humidity like one might expect in louisiana or elsewhere..............

 

also of interest is a "Corrosion Control" option offered by Ft Knox. it touts the possible need for protection from corrosion to metals when stored in a non-ventilated environment.

 

being from NJ and having a fireproof safe (both like yourself) has certainly rasied some red flags with me. however, i've sold over 120 CGC books that were stored in this safe for almost 4 years and none have shown any signs of rusting staples.

 

quite frankly, i'm still flabbergasred over the condition of that Hulk 182 - it just doesn't seem possible to have decayed so quickly inside a safe. unless, of course, there is some weight to the theory that of the type of fireproofing material caused the damage.

 

in any event, will follow your exploits with interest..............

[Silver Surfer]

Top Staple... this is very painful to observe

 

 

 

 

 

Quite incredible. That staple is worse than any staple I have ever seen before. Looks like it has been in a salt bath for years. No way this was caused only by humidity.

 

You should buy two hygrometers and test outside and inside humidity of the safe simultaneously. Put a couple of iron items inside safe to see what happens. Maybe a small plate abraded with a sand paper to maximize surface area.

 

And finally, this is very important: If there is metal left under that crust, do not get those staples replaced. Cleaned: yes, but not replaced. e

 

Good grief I don't think I have ever seen staples that bad before. I was going to buy a simple metal file cabinet but now I am wondering if I should.

[Mr. Zipper]

Good grief I don't think I have ever seen staples that bad before. I was going to buy a simple metal file cabinet but now I am wondering if I should.

 

This whole affair has me wondering if a heavy cedar chest with a good lock might be a much better option for more expensive books.

 

Granted, you lose the fire protection, but most of the safes are only good for 30-60 minutes in a fire. A serious fire would end up cooking the safe and its contents anyway.

 

[moneymaker-migration]

Top Staple... this is very painful to observe

 

 

 

 

 

Quite incredible. That staple is worse than any staple I have ever seen before. Looks like it has been in a salt bath for years. No way this was caused only by humidity.

 

You should buy two hygrometers and test outside and inside humidity of the safe simultaneously. Put a couple of iron items inside safe to see what happens. Maybe a small plate abraded with a sand paper to maximize surface area.

 

And finally, this is very important: If there is metal left under that crust, do not get those staples replaced. Cleaned: yes, but not replaced. e

 

Good grief I don't think I have ever seen staples that bad before. I was going to buy a simple metal file cabinet but now I am wondering if I should.

 

My greatest feelings of empathy go out to Bruce. I have two safes with hundreds of CGC encased items. It would be an understatement to say that it caused me great alarm when I saw this thread.

 

I have two different safes. One, an older, Liberty gun safe, which I have owned for over 5 years. The second I bought via Costco online, was a Sentry GX8599.

 

I didn't bother to get too worked up over the Liberty safe as I constantly see inventory going in and out and have never seen a problem. I did however get very concerned with the Sentry safe. I was especially concerned when I viewed the logo, which shows a fire being put at bay, assuming mine was a fire proof/resistant safe.

 

I called Sentry and was told that the safe I have is a "gun safe". They stated that it is not fire proof or even particularly fire resistant. They reminded me that it had two holes in the back that were used to wire up an optional dehumidifier that also came with the safe (that I had forgotten about). As such, the safe is nowhere close to "airtight". The rep noted that gun owners could not possibly live with a safe that might possibly rust their firearms..

 

I noted that I had read about this particular topic over the weekend and the gal, not even knowing about what I was talking about, guessed (correctly) that it might have been the model 3810.

 

She noted that this is a "fire proof/resistant" safe. They do not use any particular chemicals, however it is concrete lined and virtually airtight, which the rep noted could easily "create" humidity within the safe. She suggested that if somebody had such a safe, that they should use zip lock or other airtight enclosures to keep out the moisture that might form.

 

For standard gun safes, which are not airtight, the rep noted that humidity within the safe should be no worse than humidity outside the safe. Thus a dehumidifier might be useful, but not due to the inherent risk within the safe, but the inherent risk of the immediate surrounding environment, which would affect comics in or out of the safe equally.

 

I hope this helps. It sounds like fire proof safes are indeed a direct contributor to the problems being experienced by Bruce and others, potentially.

[Mr. Zipper]

From the Sentry website: [bold emphasis is mine]

 

#######

 

Q: Why is there moisture in my fire resistant safe?

 

Sentry Fire-Safe products which offer fire protection have a patented insulation. Any fire resistant safe contains insulation, which in turn, contains water crystals; thus the high content of moisture. In addition, the Sentry advanced safes close airtight to offer water resistance, which may also cause moisture to accumulate inside your safe.

 

We suggest that you open the safe at least once every two weeks for approximately 20 minutes. To alleviate any musty odor, we suggest that you remove the items from the safe and wipe the interior with a paste of baking soda and water.

[awe4one]

We suggest that you open the safe at least once every two weeks for approximately 20 minutes. To alleviate any musty odor, we suggest that you remove the items from the safe and wipe the interior with a paste of baking soda and water.

 

That's too much trouble...I'd just buy another brand without the hassle...

 

Jim

[drdonaldblake]

what about metal filing cabinets????????

[selegue]

From the Sentry website: [bold emphasis is mine]

 

#######

 

Q: Why is there moisture in my fire resistant safe?

 

Sentry Fire-Safe products which offer fire protection have a patented insulation. Any fire resistant safe contains insulation, which in turn, contains water crystals; thus the high content of moisture. In addition, the Sentry advanced safes close airtight to offer water resistance, which may also cause moisture to accumulate inside your safe.

 

We suggest that you open the safe at least once every two weeks for approximately 20 minutes. To alleviate any musty odor, we suggest that you remove the items from the safe and wipe the interior with a paste of baking soda and water.

 

OK -- I still don't have a clue what they mean by "water crystals" (where I'm from, that's called "ice") but clearly Steve was quoting accurately.

If the humidity can get so high that you have to air the safe for 20 min every 2 weeks and swab out the mold with baking soda and water, there's no need to call out corrosive chemicals. The Hulk 182 apparently had the most moisture trapped in the slab and/or the staples were the most susceptible to rust. Does the wire used for saddle-stitching have a coating (or did it in 1974)? Was there a chance that the staples were buffed, removing the coating, at some point? Were the other books about the same age and also Marvels?

 

Jack