ASM #17 cgc 9.4 for $2600..?

[aardvark88]

Rob,

Didn't 1 dealer in Florida find a stash of Hansi all in hi-grade over 15 yrs ago?

[Aman619]

seems like the CGC prices ARE coming down from the stratosphere based on these Spidey sales. Makes sense to me....but if it IS happening I kinda feel sorry for those who bought at the peak. (cause I HATE when I do thet too!)

 

I dont think these bids were so low because buyers are saving their money for conventions,,,wasnt it just last year that San Diego sucked because there were no high grade book sto but because of eBay being the new way to go??

 

..and the movie cycle thing has gotten a little worn out too at this point. All pointng to a settling down on multiples...

[jhumd-migration]

$2600 for an ASM 17 9.4...not a bad deal at all in my book. Quite a deal.

 

A little off topic, but as the '10 copies' of asm 17 9.4 have been discussed, perhaps the better deal (than the ebay auction) was in the Dec 6, 2002 Heritage auction. Lot #5778 ASM #17 cgc 9.2 sold for $1610 with BP. You could buy the SAME EXACT BOOK now on the PGC Mint website slabbed as a 9.4 for $3750.

 

Please forgive the new guy for not posting links:)

 

I'd be curious to hear what other forum members think of the above mentioned book and its respective grade(s) and selling price(s).

[Aman619]

how do you know its the same book? Was it broken out and regraded, coming back as 9.4?

[murph0]

It's really hard to tell much from just this one sale of this one book, if it appeared more often it'd be more easy to tell just what's going on. But the only comparison prices we really have for eBay are ones where Green Goblin books were driven up purely on hype and speculation for the movie. I think prices for books like this will continue to fluctuate dependant on who sees it and their purpose for attempting to own it.

 

Brian

[sfilosa]

My original comment was, to a certain degree, simple. Right now, the first 30 issues of Spidey in CGC NM will sell for over $1,000K. Regardless, of what every might think, there really aren't as many people buying high dollar books as it appears. And most of us, do run out of funds every once in a while. I what do we do, we sell an expensive book that has lost its luster.

 

I think a lot of big ticket books go to dealers or so called dealer/collectors. If you look at heritages auctions, you will see the same books being sold every 6 to 12 months.

 

I remember last month a TOS #39 in CGC VF- sold for a little over $2,200. This was the same copy sold in Heritage's March auction (you can see by the CGC serial #).

 

Half the time I see a book I want, I see a known dealer bidding on it. That usually signals me that the book is still reasonably priced (since the dealer wouldn't buy it if they didn't believe they could sell it for more now).

 

MY POINT: There is a limited amount of people who really want to spend $1K or more on books.

[murph0]

You know..dealers don't make money buying books..they have a reason for buying them, usually a buyer for that book. I've had Comiclink purchase a couple books off me, all were for different buyers, all were in the 800-1,500 range.

With the exception of a few dealers who buy certain books just to say they have them and then place a huge price tag on them.

 

Brian

[COI]

Half the time I see a book I want, I see a known dealer bidding on it. That usually signals me that the book is still reasonably priced (since the dealer wouldn't buy it if they didn't believe they could sell it for more now).

 

That is definetly not a good way to determine what kind of deal you are getting.

 

The high grade CGC market is slowly evolving to a point where the lines between dealers, investors and collectors is becomming blurred. If a collector buys a book for $2000 and sells it for $2400 6 months later, he is "dealing", whether he does this with one book or with 20 books. And in doing so, he'll get to know different buyer/sellers, and will establish contacts. With ebay and CGC, anyone with $$$ is dealing in books, regardless of whether he is doing it to make money or expand his collection, because the 2 things are the same. That being said, I've seen many instances where dealers have paid WAYYY too much for books, and have been unable to successfully flip them.

 

There are all types; Comiclink(Josh) apparently buys for customers, but also for his own collection. I'm told Comgeek(Steve) dosen't have a collection of his own, but buys for customers, yet he purchased a FF #35 cGC 9.4 from me, and re-listed it on ebay. Then you have guys like Mark Wilson whose website is more of a showcase than anything else. I've competed against him in bidding many times, and if he really wants something, you might as well get out of his way as he will bid astronomically. His website is a testament to that, and is filled with mind-numbing books. And I believe many of the top dealers are investors themselves. I would love to know what kind of books Metropolis has in the "vault", other than their CGC 9.4 Showcase #4.

 

[Aman619]

thats an interesting take on the subject. I had originally agreed that it was "safe" to keep bidding if other 'top' dealers were going after the book at the same price range. Perhaps you're right that many of them have no better idea of what books will sell for than we do...and they might be overpaying sometimes and getting stuck when they try to flip them.

[murph0]

I'm not sure they're 'getting stuck' per se. There's certain dealers who will buy some choice stuff and then mark it up a lot in order to generate interest and create a "I'm the only one with this" type atmosphere.

But for the most part, IMO, dealers are either A. Buying cause they have a buyer or B. buying cause they want it for themselves.

 

Brian

[COI]

I had originally agreed that it was "safe" to keep bidding if other 'top' dealers were going after the book at the same price range. Perhaps you're right that many of them have no better idea of what books will sell for than we do...and they might be overpaying sometimes and getting stuck when they try to flip them.

 

Many dealers have years and years of experience in the business, and have handled god knows how many books, from high to low. I would not take that away from them, as I believe the overall knowledge these guys have in the business is tremendous.

 

However, CGC is a different game. We are all pretty much rookies in the CGC market, because the market itself is a new thing. I've been intently watching, tracking and buying graded books since shortly after they hit the scene. I honestly think that dealers have no particular edge over those who have been intently studying the CGC market, at least not in respect to buying graded books. Inorder for a dealer, collector, or newbie to do well on purchases, they have to keep track of the market and research. So in that respect, all high grade CGC buyers are pretty much on a level playing field. Whether or not a dealer is bidding on a book that I'm bidding on means nothing to me, and I'm not anymore interested in what they buy than in what anyone else buys.

[clobberintime]

I am actually starting to think that the new Overstreet grading/price scale may be affecting the ebay prices. The guide has not been out long enough and I haven't kept track of enough ebay sales yet to be sure, but it appears to me in the last few weeks many high grade Marvel silver books - even keys - are selling for prices that seem to reflect the new OS guide. 9.0 books are not selling at 9.4 plus 15% or 20% but maybe the OS 9.0 price plus 10%. 9.2 books are going like 1.5 x the OS guide lately instead of double the old 9.4 guide price. Even 9.4s are not commanding the multiples they use to. 9.6 and up is still very unpredictable. As for dealers buying books - some have fairly deep pockets and buy things as cheap as possible and may hold until an up trend or movie hype. They dont buy to flip immediately - not very profitable unless you get a book at a goofy low price. And there is indeed a fairly limited number of people and finite resources for very expensive books. That has been discussed many times here and that is no revelation. However the real line of distinction is not $1000 books but books over about $3000. There are many people on ebay buying $1000 books - just look at Hulk 181 or X-men 94. But there are only 10 or so non-dealers buying books over $2000 to $3000. And that is something to consider if you are buying purely to invest - if you get in a pinch, it may be tough to make your money back if you have to sell short or in a hurry - limited collectors and a lot of the big time collectors already have all the big books - unless you are selling at a bargain price. Could you get $10,000 for that Spidey 14 9.4 right now? Highly unlikely. Will you get $5000 for that Hulk 181 9.6 in 6 months? We will see.

[sfilosa]

I made the original comment about watching dealers bid on eBay. Let me follow up with some clarification:

 

In general, I was talking about high grade, common books, not expensive keys or rarer books. I don't believe that many dealers are overpaying for these books for their collection, or to hoard at this time. Yes, they might pay slightly more because they have buyer, but whose to say I can't buy the book at a slightly higher price and resell it on eBay and get a 20% profit. The last thing I want to see, is that I let a dealer buy a book (that I really wanted) for one bid higher than mine, just to see it listed on their website marked up 50%.

 

 

[COI]

but it appears to me in the last few weeks many high grade Marvel silver books - even keys - are selling for prices that seem to reflect the new OS guide. 9.0 books are not selling at 9.4 plus 15% or 20% but maybe the OS 9.0 price plus 10%. 9.2 books are going like 1.5 x the OS guide lately instead of double the old 9.4 guide price. Even 9.4s are not commanding the multiples they use to. 9.6 and up is still very unpredictable.

 

Yeah, I noticed that too, and I think it's a sign that the CGC market isn't crashing, but settling in. I think it's a good thing overall, but many "flippers" are probably not liking it too much.

 

As for the bigger books, I agree. I think there are more than 10 ebayers who are willing to buy $2000 books, but in general the numbers are definetly low. $200-$1000 books are much easier to move in a pinch, but the $5000+ books are better for long term investing because most books of this caliber are locked up.

[Kevin76]

Could you get $10,000 for that Spidey 14 9.4 right now? Highly unlikely. Will you get $5000 for that Hulk 181 9.6 in 6 months? We will see.

 

Darn straight you can get 10K and more for a Spidey 14 9.4 right now,It may not be on eBAY or it may be,but since it guides for $2800 10K even is a decent price for the buyer,I'd buy one for 10K and I would buy a ASM 17 9.4 for $3500 to go with it and say thank you! The market doesn't begin and end on ebay,maybe for you it does,but just because a book is listed on ebay and sells below what is expected doesn't mean that a book has cooled off,Clobberintime you seem to think so.But in that case,Since a Hulk Annual 1 CGC 9.6 OW/W just recently sold on ebay for around 7-800.00,($780.00 i think) and you paid a $1000.00 for the one i sold you with cream to off white pages in the same grade,guess that means you lost $220.00?? according to you? KS

[clobberintime]

I don't really think I need any market lessons from you on where the book deals are. Didn't mean to point to you in particular about your ASM 14 but if you want this to be about you then that is fine with me. CGC 9.4+ Spideys for keys and books under #50 are not selling for the money they were and I doubt that they will again for some time - maybe Spidey #2 movie will help. I buy books from all over - so your revelation that ebay is not the entire market is about as fresh as a 10 day old corpse. So secret deals and what someone is supposedly paying for a book is hard to really determine but I get an awful lot of offers and see what is going on at Heritage and elsewhere - I got a Spidey 4 9.4 at the last big Heritage sale for something like $7000 - a much harder and older book than 14 and almost bought 1 9.4 #15 as it was going for about $2000 less than previous 15 9.4s had been selling for. Look at the overpriced high grade cgc Spideys at Metro, Comiclink and High grade. Look at em, month after month cause they aren't going anywhere. 2 copies of Spidey 14 9.2 have been on ebay in the last month - Comgeek finally sold his off ebay after many listings for around $3500 and the last one sold for $3000. Based on those numbers, looks like yours could go anywhere from $6000 to $8000. But if you bought it for long term collecting who cares? I bought that Hulk Ann 1 from you as it is a favorite cover and I have no plans to ever sell it so maybe in 10 or 20 years it will be worth $1000 again. And i don't really care if you take your spidey 14 and shove it up your side ways - it would probably greatly improve your disposition.

[Bugaboo-migration]

And i don't really care if you take your spidey 14 and shove it up your side ways - it would probably greatly improve your disposition.

[fantastic_four]

And i don't really care if you take your spidey 14 and shove it up your side ways - it would probably greatly improve your disposition.

 

WHOA!!!!!! Somebody got SMOKED...

[Kevin76]

No wonder people tell you to get back to work,I saw Spidey 4 9.4 sell for $15,000 on a certian dealers website,of course you could still get that amount for it now right? Never said i wanted this to be about me. I'm not trying to bait you into an arguement,tell me off all you want cause jimmy crack corn and i don't care,but you seem to think there is big crash and I could sell the 14 for more than 8K privately,I know a few guys who will give me much more than that for it,but like your hulk annual 1,I plan on keeping for 20 years or so,But you keep refering back to ebay as the place to sell books,given that my revelation is not the entire market which is a fresh as a 10 days old corpse hven't seen any books on ebay that has really impress me,As for the spidey books on comiclink and heritage,well...they don't have anything right now!

The ecomony has alot to do with comic sales,economy sucks right now.So there for comic sales are down,I'm not going to sit here and give you advice cause since you don't need mine,no one needs yours,especailly on comics.

[clobberintime]

Umm - I know you haven't been on board for awhile but I am like the exact opposite of thinking there is a crash. That's why Comic Joe loves me so much. What I said in this very thread is that there seems to be a recent adjustment in prcing on some books that while they may be high grade keys, are readily available or were hyped too high by movies. I keep saying that CGC books bring more money than raw books ever have and probably ever will. If you are a book flipper the prce adjustments may make things difficult to make money, but if you are buying as a collector or for a favorite cover or story, the current price regime means nothing! I don't know how anyone could say there is a crash when almost all high grade cgc books sell well over guide and sell for a lot more than before cgc existed. I really was not referring to you or anyone in specific by mentioning Spidey 14 and Hulk 181 - they just came to mind as examples of what I was thinking about.