Page quality versus grade - preference?

[Kevin76]

Page quality doesn't matter to me as much as most people.. i like the grade..sometimes you can't have both especailly when your dealin in HG pre 65 silver.Sometime when you see a book your dyin for but find out the pages are cream to off white and it's a 9.4 or higher,are u going to pass it up? only to say to yourself..." i may never see another 9.4 copy ever again" I have a Hulk Annual 1 in 9.6 with cream to off white pages...was i about to pass it up considering only 7 9.6's in excistance and nothing higher...Nope!

[blowout]

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...........a.....

 

..........a white paged comic, to me, indicates a well stored comic and one that will last longer than its off-white counterparts...............

[JLA_ALL_THE_WAY]

Take it to the next level; widen the gap:

 

9.2 white vs 9.6 Off-white

 

How about now?

 

Page quality would mean more to me if I ever planned on busting the slab to read. Otherwise, whatever condition the pages are in when encased is how they should remain for a loooong time.

 

Rick

[Darthdiesel]

Since busting the slab would be equivalent of sacrilege I would take the 9.6 with inferior PQ

[clobberintime]

Page quality on a cgc book that I never intend to open does not matter a lot to me - just not that obsessive or anal as i will never really see it. But anything less than cr/ow seems to effect the whole book from what I can see - sometimes it looks like the cover colors are faded and you see that more often with the more page detoriated books. Like Avengers 4, or X-men 3 or FF 1- if you ever see a 9.0 or so with cream pages the cover that is supposed to be white tends to like either yellowy or tan and I don't think a book that looks like that should grade high. And I am with Gorgo all the way on the non-differences in the nm classification. I have hundreds of cgc silver books from 9.0 to 9.6 and I can not say that I think the prices on the very high end books are justified by the books' appearance. I have 9.2s and 9.4s of Journey annual 1 and Hulk An1 and I really can tell very little difference! Certainly not enough to justify the prices on the 9.4s. I buy somewhat for investment but mainly as a collector that has always been driven by eye appeal - and in my opinion there is just not enough seperation between the grades of 9.2 to 9.6 to justify the crazy price variations or geometric increase of prices of variations of two hundreths of a point! What is this the Olympics? I still think the grading scale on the nm range is one of the most clever marketing ploys I have ever seen - it prays upon the truly nutty collector type that must have the highest and the best no matter what - even though it is a mere distinction without a real difference in the appearance of the book.

[blowout]

.............given the choice between a 9.2 W and a 9.6 OW i would take the 9.6 for sure............assuming that the 9.6 displays a better overall structure and eye appeal............

[Rickdogg]

9.6 no doubt, but that isnt a good comparison

 

Here's a better comparison...

 

9.2 White Pages vs. 9.6 Cream Pages

[JLA_ALL_THE_WAY]

But that's exactly my point:

 

Where does page quality balance out with structural condition & outer appearance?

 

A 9.6 C/OW at least "should" look nicer, no, BE nicer than a 9.2 W, right?

 

If they stay in their cases til judgement day (where you'll never SEE the page whiteness), then it's a matter of the 9.2 having .4 more defects than the 9.6.

 

Now, it's only a question of what that .4 difference is; on the covers where we can see...inside with the pages that you don't see?

 

I'm still not understanding the big deal with the page color when it's inside? I get the difference between two same-grade books with varying shades of white, but comparing page color to structural/cosmetic defects on slabbed books?

 

Rick

[Rickdogg]

It all comes down to what book you are buying, but I usually wait for the White Pager in the desired grade I want.

[tb]

It's funny how all you Silver Age people seem to be coming from a different galaxy when talking about grading/page quality :-).

 

Being a collector of 1930s and early 40s comics, I have been combing the market (most major dealers, all auction sites, CBG, ...) for many years looking for the best existing copy of each issue, yet, regardless of how much I have been willing to pay, I have never found a single copy better than true 9.4. Unfortunately, Edgar Church did not save any books for me :-( and Larson Lamont only a precious few. For many books, the best unrestored grade I have ever seen is in the VG/FN range.

 

The best I can answer your question is that it depends entirely on how long you intend to keep the book. If I were to consider putting my comics up on eBay in a few years, I would clearly go for the highest grade. If I were to keep the books for 30-40 years, page quality would win for sure. It is very common to see early comics/magazines that structurally are in the VF range but with pages reeking of an acidic smell or a spine that could separate at the slightest touch.

 

In 20 years, I suspect you ASM and FF collectors are likely going to run into the same problem.

 

Thanks for reading and have a nice weekend!

 

[murph0]

Your books give off an acidic smell? That's not good.

 

Brian

[drbanner]

But anything less than cr/ow seems to effect the whole book from what I can see - sometimes it looks like the cover colors are faded and you see that more often with the more page detoriated books.

 

Eye appeal is the main thing with me too, and I can tell you that the quality of the cover color is WAY more important than the quality of the interior pages. The funny thing is, they are not always dependent on one another so it's not uncommon to see brighter books with lower page quality, and vice-versa. Does CGC downgrade the numerical grade due to faded covers, or duller cover colors? No one knows but them, although FF asked them about page quality and they said it was a separate score.

 

I really think there needs to be some indicator of eye appeal in the grading scheme to account for centering, coloring, cut, writing/date stamps, etc.,. It appears that the current grade focuses much more on the physical state of the book (creases, tears, spine stress, bindery tears, etc.,.) CGC could easily introduce the Star* "eye appeal" grade on future submissions, and allow people to submit their previously graded books for a Star* score (at a certain price, of course!).

 

The moral of this story is - buy the book, not the label!

[clobberintime]

When cgc first started, i was amazed to see nm range books with writing and date stamps on the cover! back in my days of convention haggling, writing on the cover either made me not buy the book or if it was something I had to get, i would argue for a lower price - and as i remember I was usually successful. On an otherwise nm type book I never paid guide for a book with any kind of writing - I am not sure many people consider a book to be 9.2+ with any sort of writing on the cover. But i own and see on ebay all the time books graded very high with writing - especially date stamps or grease marker! I have seen some with the date written in the middle of the book or right on the characters! And on the page quality, what I can remember from buying high grade books with nice paper ( before cgc) was that the books with higher quality paper had a better "feel" to them - a true nm book has a slick, tight, crisp feel. What i noticed about books with nice covers but bad paper was that they did not feel "tight" - one of those characteristics that is hard to describe but you know it when you see or feel it! With cgc plastic that is no longer possible to determine for yourself.

[fantastic_four]

They actually told me the opposite. I asked them twice about page quality--once to Jennifer Levitt in early 2001 and again to Mark Haspel in early 2002--and they both said the same thing, that page quality is included in the numerical grade.

 

And I agree, the grade as it currently is evaluated isn't enough due to eye appeal factors not being weighed in. Eye appeal is the reason I almost never buy CGC books without a scan.

[Guest]

I agree totally with a prior post that states that CGC doesn't weigh page quality that heavily in their overall grade. However, I think they take items such as spine ticks into account too much. Just my opinion, I suppose...

 

Regarding the date stamps and so forth, I've been informed that this can be allowed as this is the process a normal comic goes through (or at least before the proverbial end of comics on magazine racks and now almost only in specialty stores). Part of a comics "life" and destination was to be brought in and placed on a magazine shelf, so a date stamp could occur during this process. But CGC usually notes below the grade the existence of a date stamp or other writing, so at that point I suppose it's up to the potential buyer of a book as to how much this means. This answer may generate more questions than answers, but I'm not making this up. I think they used to write about this in the old Overstreet guides, but cannot find any mention in the latest one.

 

Good luck to all...

[fantastic_four]

Date stamps were common in the 40s, much less common in the 50s, mostly uncommon in the 60s, and very uncommon in the 70s. All of us born in the 60s, 70s, and 80s aren't used to date stamps being a common part of the process, and most of us don't like it much!

[comicinvestor-migration]

I could care less what grade CGC assigns a Date Stamped book, but not telling us on the label is totally insane. When they buckled to pressure from sellers to lose all label grading comments, they descended to the level of politicians taking kick-backs.

[blowout]

.........the whole notion of an impartial third party grading system has gone out the window..............how can they be providing an impartial service if they listen to one side and not the other?...........

[comicinvestor-migration]

Just remember who their "customers" are, and who pays the bills each month.

[blowout]

............unfortunately, everything comes down to money doesn't it..........

...........i think its time cgc had some competition, to really shake things up.............companies with a monopoly don't have to provide as high a level of service since they are providing their own bench-marks...............