I just soiled myself.....and I couldn't be happier.

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

But Doug has an incredible history of resub bumps, better in fact, then any other CGC submitter that I know of: an X-Men # 1 Pacific Coast from 9.6 to 9.8, an FF # 18 from 9.6 to 9.8, a Daredevil # 1 from 9.4 to 9.6, and now this book. I'm sure there are others, these are just a handful that I'm aware of.

 

He is fulfilling exactly the type of business model CGC envisoned back in 1999. I've heard it on the tape recordings of the planning sessions. Resubs and "challenges" to CGC decisions were always to be part of the game. But that was said behind the scenes and only to a select group of of people. To the general public the CGC message was quite different. They were the community "policeman". To be sure, CGC has brought a great deal of benefit to our community. But as always, there never seems to be too great a difference between the angel and the devil. One follows the other, and sometimes plays both roles.

 

Here is a postulation. Has anyone compared type of service to the grades being received? I know, sounds like conspiracy theory. I would be mighty interested to see those results though.

 

Considering the value of the FF # 1, its got to be a Walk-Thru...a $1,000 per regrade (minus his discount), if thats indeed what it was.

[awe4one]

But Doug has an incredible history of resub bumps, better in fact, then any other CGC submitter that I know of: an X-Men # 1 Pacific Coast from 9.6 to 9.8, an FF # 18 from 9.6 to 9.8, a Daredevil # 1 from 9.4 to 9.6, and now this book. I'm sure there are others, these are just a handful that I'm aware of.

 

He is fulfilling exactly the type of business model CGC envisoned back in 1999. I've heard it on the tape recordings of the planning sessions. Resubs and "challenges" to CGC decisions were always to be part of the game. But that was said behind the scenes and only to a select group of of people. To the general public the CGC message was quite different. They were the community "policeman". To be sure, CGC has brought a great deal of benefit to our community. But as always, there never seems to be too great a difference between the angel and the devil. One follows the other, and sometimes plays both roles.

 

Here is a postulation. Has anyone compared type of service to the grades being received? I know, sounds like conspiracy theory. I would be mighty interested to see those results though.

 

Considering the value of the FF # 1, its got to be a Walk-Thru...a $1,000 per regrade (minus his discount), if thats indeed what it was.

 

And maybe a Benjamin to jack the PQ...

 

Jim

[Ze-man]

I mighta missed it, Has anybody actually asked Doug if the book was pressed? Not that it matters to me, my MAX bid for a F.F. #1 is $475,001

 

 

Ze-

[skybolt]

But Doug has an incredible history of resub bumps, better in fact, then any other CGC submitter that I know of: an X-Men # 1 Pacific Coast from 9.6 to 9.8, an FF # 18 from 9.6 to 9.8, a Daredevil # 1 from 9.4 to 9.6, and now this book. I'm sure there are others, these are just a handful that I'm aware of.

 

He is fulfilling exactly the type of business model CGC envisoned back in 1999. I've heard it on the tape recordings of the planning sessions. Resubs and "challenges" to CGC decisions were always to be part of the game. But that was said behind the scenes and only to a select group of of people. To the general public the CGC message was quite different. They were the community "policeman". To be sure, CGC has brought a great deal of benefit to our community. But as always, there never seems to be too great a difference between the angel and the devil. One follows the other, and sometimes plays both roles.

 

Here is a postulation. Has anyone compared type of service to the grades being received? I know, sounds like conspiracy theory. I would be mighty interested to see those results though.

 

After submitting about 200-250 GA and SA books (in various grades) to CGC, and using their economy, standard and express services, I would say the answer is no. Plus, there were a couple $500+ GA books that I submitted to CGC using their economy service, and didn't have a problem receiving the proper grade. On the otherhand, I tried their express service on a couple of occassions and received terrible grades.

[Drummy]

What's interesting to me about CGC (maddening, too) is that they give ME the service they promise -- solid grading, fair treatment, good customer service. In fact, probably 95% of their service is excellent. With the BSD money players, however, they pull all kinds of shenanigans to keep these guys happy...resto becomes no resto, grades creep up, page quality gets "fixed", etc. What a crock. I love Steve B. and the other CGC folks but it must drive THEM nuts at time to see what a two-tiered game they play...you can't justify unfair or business practices except via the bottom line, which is why there are so many CEO's and CFO's who sell their souls to Satan for the almighty dollar.

 

Dan

[finecomics]

Doug's got some coconut-sized nutz for saying "only" in front of that price tag.

 

 

seriously. half a million dollars for anything can't be "only." n'est ce pas possible

it reads:

For sale only: $500,000 not

For sale, only: $500,000

 

yourself; i've seen it put both ways on line before. how am i to assume which way he means?

 

vive le difference

 

"english.... mother er, Do you speak it?"

[Sal]

Doug's got some coconut-sized nutz for saying "only" in front of that price tag.

 

 

seriously. half a million dollars for anything can't be "only." n'est ce pas possible

it reads:

For sale only: $500,000 not

For sale, only: $500,000

 

yourself; i've seen it put both ways on line before. how am i to assume which way he means?

 

vive le difference

 

"english.... mother er, Do you speak it?"

 

this, from the guy who can't seem to figure out the whole "you're" vs. "your" conundrum.

 

now stop hijacking this lovely little thread

[Flaming_Telepath]

It was graded as a 9.6 back in 2000 and reholdered later, hence the new label. The unsubstantiated conspiracy theories don't surprise me though. Par for the course for this forum.

 

And your continual defense of the indefensable is now equally amusing.

 

Tell me, what's your explanation for the bump in page quality...without a formal regrade?

 

I'm dying to know.

[PedigreeMan]

But Doug has an incredible history of resub bumps, better in fact, then any other CGC submitter that I know of: an X-Men # 1 Pacific Coast from 9.6 to 9.8, an FF # 18 from 9.6 to 9.8, a Daredevil # 1 from 9.4 to 9.6, and now this book. I'm sure there are others, these are just a handful that I'm aware of.

 

He is fulfilling exactly the type of business model CGC envisoned back in 1999. I've heard it on the tape recordings of the planning sessions. Resubs and "challenges" to CGC decisions were always to be part of the game. But that was said behind the scenes and only to a select group of of people. To the general public the CGC message was quite different. They were the community "policeman". To be sure, CGC has brought a great deal of benefit to our community. But as always, there never seems to be too great a difference between the angel and the devil. One follows the other, and sometimes plays both roles.

 

Yeah, but, Mark, doesn't the fact that the unchanged serial number point to a different (i.e. non-traditional) method of submission in this case? Is this non-traditional method mentioned on those tape recordings?

 

Speaking of which, we're all still waiting for the transcripts of those tapes ....

[Comicdey]

The dang thing doesn't even have white pages....

That was the deal breaker for me.

 

Uh, yeah, me too!

 

I'm wondering if my innocent "sarcastic" little comment convinced him to go and get himself a little upgrade......

 

It's a beautiful book any way you look at it, but if you're trying to get the sky high dollar value, I guess it should have "white pages".

[Flaming_Telepath]

The dang thing doesn't even have white pages....

That was the deal breaker for me.

 

Uh, yeah, me too!

 

I'm wondering if my innocent "sarcastic" little comment convinced him to go and get himself a little upgrade......

 

It's a beautiful book any way you look at it, but if you're trying to get the sky high dollar value, I guess it should have "white pages".

 

And as the PQ jump is currently 'on offer' for the price of a decent bottle of wine, why the hell not, I say!

 

I suspect that the dealer needs to be renamed, by simply dropping the 'ch' from his surname....

[Murph]

Keeping in mind the serial # shows the book as being graded THIS month. A bump in page quality from off-white to white is now something to get worked up over? Okay, I'll admit it.. I've resubmitted a couple books and the page quality has changed. I had one at C-OW that showed up ow-white after resubmit. That's a 3 tier bump. Obviously I must've pressed the book, or whitened it, or am best friends with Steve, or any number of other conspiracy theories. Has anyone thought to, I don't know.. maybe ASK CGC if you can regrade a book and ASK for the same serial #? Especially a serial # that is such an early one??

Getting worked up over pressing and trimming, etc is okay (however, lots of people have long since gone over the deep end on pressing) but to harp on a page quality change, when everyone SHOULD know detecting page quality is not an exact science, seems way over the top.

[burntboy]

Keeping in mind the serial # shows the book as being graded THIS month. A bump in page quality from off-white to white is now something to get worked up over? Okay, I'll admit it.. I've resubmitted a couple books and the page quality has changed. I had one at C-OW that showed up ow-white after resubmit. That's a 3 tier bump. Obviously I must've pressed the book, or whitened it, or am best friends with Steve, or any number of other conspiracy theories. Has anyone thought to, I don't know.. maybe ASK CGC if you can regrade a book and ASK for the same serial #? Especially a serial # that is such an early one??

Getting worked up over pressing and trimming, etc is okay (however, lots of people have long since gone over the deep end on pressing) but to harp on a page quality change, when everyone SHOULD know detecting page quality is not an exact science, seems way over the top.

 

wow - didn't know you were still alive, Murph...............

 

isn't your bump just a two-tier bump, same as Doug's??

 

i tend to agree that i'd make a special request to keep the original serial number based on it's CGC history when resubbing a book such as this.

 

and while, i too, have doubts that any book should ever jump 2 tiers in PQ, your example makes the case that it can and does, sometimes happen...................

[Flaming_Telepath]

Keeping in mind the serial # shows the book as being graded THIS month. A bump in page quality from off-white to white is now something to get worked up over? Okay, I'll admit it.. I've resubmitted a couple books and the page quality has changed. I had one at C-OW that showed up ow-white after resubmit. That's a 3 tier bump. Obviously I must've pressed the book, or whitened it, or am best friends with Steve, or any number of other conspiracy theories. Has anyone thought to, I don't know.. maybe ASK CGC if you can regrade a book and ASK for the same serial #? Especially a serial # that is such an early one??

Getting worked up over pressing and trimming, etc is okay (however, lots of people have long since gone over the deep end on pressing) but to harp on a page quality change, when everyone SHOULD know detecting page quality is not an exact science, seems way over the top.

 

Read the thread before commenting.

 

To quote JTMF...

 

'If the book was a standard resub, it would have been issued a new serial # upon regrading, hence, there would have been "before" and "after" records for a prospective buyer to evaluate (assuming they could track down the original bar code number). An astute buyer would be able to see the bump in page quality, and decide whether it was warranted or not.

 

Since the barcode remains the same, however, all evidence of this book ever having off-white pages is wiped clean from the CGC records and contained only to a couple of jpeg images and the collective memories of those of us who read threads like this.'

 

This was an inside job, pure and simple, designed to 'protect the investment' of one of CGC's main clients who had managed to 'release the potential' in the book by asking for, and obtaining, a gift PQ bump.

 

Even in Schmell's own opinion, the book was probably good enough to get an 'off-white to white'...no mention of 'white'...until he realises he needs it to net the Benjamins.

[Drummy]

Brian, you're right -- it's not truly a big deal. For me, it's yet another thing (on a list that's getting longer) that seems to compromise CGC's integrity. I've read all the CGC submission options and nowhere does it say that I can have a book reholdered with only the page quality examined...so to see it happen for some customers and not others just kind of bums me out.

 

Dan

[evilsly]

The PQ on the cgc label will make no difference to the sale price of this book.

 

it will not sell to a 'label' collector, and it's history is well known.

 

has any silverage marvel ever sold for over 150k ? sold in actual cash that is, not merely moved from one dealers inventory to another ?

 

If someone is going to buy this issue they are going to buy it because it's the best looking (known) copy on the planet, not because of it's CGC label.

 

if a book like the Allentown 'tec 27 was on the market, would slabbing it add 1 cent to it's value ?

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

Keeping in mind the serial # shows the book as being graded THIS month. A bump in page quality from off-white to white is now something to get worked up over? Okay, I'll admit it.. I've resubmitted a couple books and the page quality has changed. I had one at C-OW that showed up ow-white after resubmit. That's a 3 tier bump. Obviously I must've pressed the book, or whitened it, or am best friends with Steve, or any number of other conspiracy theories. Has anyone thought to, I don't know.. maybe ASK CGC if you can regrade a book and ASK for the same serial #? Especially a serial # that is such an early one??

Getting worked up over pressing and trimming, etc is okay (however, lots of people have long since gone over the deep end on pressing) but to harp on a page quality change, when everyone SHOULD know detecting page quality is not an exact science, seems way over the top.

 

The whole value of a serial number is so that there is an accurate accounting of what a particular book was graded on a given day. If CGC is going to allow books to keep the same serial # from one regrade to the next, what's the point?

(Personally, I still think the FF # 1 above is an exception and not the new rule of law).

 

In a way, it would make identifying resubbed books easier..no more wondering if two identical looking books with different labels are really the same...at least now you would know.

 

This is getting really nutty. The reason I sold off practically all of my high grade slabs was because I kept wondering whose "side" CGC was on. I was getting tired of having to check archives of Heritage and GPA everytime I wanted to bid or buy something. Pouring through serial #s and scans from five years of auctions was taking its toll.

 

Was this copy graded before? Is it on the resub list? (compiled by concerned collectors). Is it on the Ewert list? When and what grade did it receive? The scan looks familiar, how come? Oh, it got a half-point bump? How come? Let's call for notes on that 9.2: the pre-grader and grader gave it a 9.0, but the finalizer said 9.2: minority rules? Guess I'm not buying.

 

For instance, I wanted to bid on the USA Comics # 8 CGC 8.0 in the Comiclink featured auction, until I realized its the Chicago copy, which happens to be listed in GPAnalysis twice, once as a sale of a 6.5 in March 2003, then later that year as a sale of a 8.0. Baring the possibility that there are two copies of that book, its a safe bet the book was resubbed and got a 1.5 grade bump. Is it worth paying a premium for with that knowledge? Not to me.

 

I might as well earn a law degree for all the due diligence I have to practice as a high grade collector.

 

This is why I'm so attracted to PLOD books....at least CGC proclaims it in boldly with Black letters against a big purple background: "yes, this book has been screwed with!"

[Crackandpresstoan11]

When are you going to show us that ASM #1 you own?

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

i tend to agree that i'd make a special request to keep the original serial number based on it's CGC history when resubbing a book such as this.

 

Harry, the only legitimate concern I can think of having with such a book would be to protect its "uniqueness" on the CGC census. But resubbing it with the label prevents that, as CGC would remove the original serial # and thus not duplicate it in the census, correct?

 

Let me also state I like Doug a lot, and applaud his fantastic website and business model. His contribution to this hobby as a collector and dealer is noteworthy indeed (may I add in a positive way). So I don't want anyone to think my angst is directed at him, it is not.

 

What frustrates me is the moving target that is CGC standards and how it has eroded not only my confidence in the product, but those of many fellow collectors as well.

[Crackandpresstoan11]

Let me also state I like Doug a lot, and applaud his fantastic website and business model. His contribution to this hobby as a collector and dealer is noteworthy indeed (may I add in a positive way).

 

Not to bust your balls, but what is so "positive" about Doug? His website and business model are "borrowed" from Clink. The only thing he is noteworthy for is being such a fanatical high grade collector that he basically stole money from his clients to buy comics and ruined his career as a lawyer in the process. I just don't understand why some people here hold him in such high esteem.