The phenomenon of "Seller's Remorse" re: SA Marvels

[joe_collector]

Joe, can you please elaborate on what your definition of investor vs. pure collector is?

 

If comics were to become absolutely worthless tomorrow, investors and speculators would worried about their financial hit, while a collector would be unfazed. After all, he would still have all the books, which are the main focus.

 

If fire ravaged through an entire collection, a investor or speculator might give some thought to the actual books before calling the insurance company to get a big fat check, while a collector would be far more concerned with losing the actual books and how he would replace them in the future.

 

It all comes down to what your true hobby is. If you're constantly buying and selling, then like Donut and many others on here, it's likely your actual hobby is being a dealer.

[nik]

I see where you're coming from but to me there is a huge difference.

 

I need a home as part of my everyday life to shelter my wife and kids, and dont really have a need to sell it unless I was looking to upgrade my home, so a home to me is a neccessaty and not an investment. Obviously if the market is wek when I am upgrading its going to affect me or when its strong its still going to affect me.

 

Now where comics are concerned. There are 2 types of hobbyist. There is the true collector and there is the flipper. The true fanboy/collector has been a packrat all his life so he has never overpayed for a book or payed nose-bleed prices. So for him its not a real investment but a hobby, or a form of entertainment. He will never loose.

 

Next is the flipper, the person who buys solely for making a buck, for him its all about timing. Buy low, sell high so for him yes I can see remorse for not selling at peak (which is anyones guess) time or cashing in on his investment.

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

My home and my comic book collection are one and the same, merely assets with market value and an "end game" of financial profit?

 

I think you're oversimplifying what I wrote.

 

People own both comics and homes for very different reasons, they also come to mean very different things to their owners.

 

A home can mean security, a safe place to raise a family, a place filled with cherished memories, etc., etc. To many people, what they have invested within their homes is immeasurable and doesn't translate easily into dollars and cents.

But ultimately, if they wish to sell that home, they have to subject their expectations for compensation to the whims of the market.

 

I'm not saying everyone treats homes and comics like they are nothing MORE then commodities, but when you are buying or selling (either pre-emotional attachment/fulfillment or post), you play by the rules of the marketplace.

 

My point in all this was to draw a rough comparison between how SOME home sellers in my local market who missed the top of the market last year (for whatever reason) have decided to part with their homes while prices are still historically high (and that I see something comparable happening in the Silver Marvel market).

People who have lived in the same home for 20 years (doubtless, with many memories) ARE treating them as commodities, and in many cases, as the majority of their nest egg (which to some, it probably is).

 

Does it mean that everyone who either collects comics or owns a home does it out of the promise of sheer financial gain? No, and I never implied that either. But many people do to some extent, which I guess is the point you want to debate.

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

Now where comics are concerned. There are 2 types of hobbyist. There is the true collector and there is the flipper. The true fanboy/collector has been a packrat all his life so he has never overpayed for a book or payed nose-bleed prices. So for him its not a real investment but a hobby, or a form of entertainment. He will never loose.

 

Next is the flipper, the person who buys solely for making a buck, for him its all about timing. Buy low, sell high so for him yes I can see remorse for not selling at peak (which is anyones guess) time or cashing in on his investment.

 

And there is no middle ground here between the two?

 

I don't know, I've occasionally followed your Forum offerings and ebay material, and I've seen a lot of fixed pricing, which is not indicative of someone "who can never lose".

 

There is nothing wrong with being somewhere in the middle of the two extremes you described.

[drbanner]

I think you're oversimplifying what I wrote.

 

I guess it's a matter of perspective, but it just seems quite odd to me to be talking about seller's remorse in the context of:

"Man, I should have sold these books last year when I could have gotten a lot more for them! "

 

when I would think of seller's remorse in the context of:

"Man, why oh why did I ever sell that sweet, sweet book?!?! "

[Wally's Comics]

All I can say is

 

LET IT FALL!!!

 

LET IT FALL!!!!!!!!!!!

 

LET IT FALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

But When I"m finished with my ASM Silvers run

 

Let it bust on up TO THE MOON!!!!!

 

 

 

[skybolt]

Joe, can you please elaborate on what your definition of investor vs. pure collector is?

 

If comics were to become absolutely worthless tomorrow, investors and speculators would worried about their financial hit, while a collector would be unfazed. After all, he would still have all the books, which are the main focus.

 

If fire ravaged through an entire collection, a investor or speculator might give some thought to the actual books before calling the insurance company to get a big fat check, while a collector would be far more concerned with losing the actual books and how he would replace them in the future.

 

It all comes down to what your true hobby is. If you're constantly buying and selling, then like Donut and many others on here, it's likely your actual hobby is being a dealer.

 

I understand your point, but it's hard not think of a financial hit if your books cost you thousands of dollars vs. only a few dollars a piece. Insurance, safety deposit boxes, etc. are a huge necessity just like getting home or car insurance. It's like saying if the house you live in drops in value by $100,000 you shouldn't be fazed since you enjoy owning it anyway. If any expensive item we own goes down in value, it would have a negative impact on us no matter how much we love it.........it's human nature.

 

As a collector of significant/expensive books like AF #15 or FF #1 you're left with 2 options. You could either pass on purchasing your grails because you're worried about a financial hit if the book tanks in value, or take the chance and buy the book anyway. Personally, I don't think either option makes a person less of a collector. Unfortunately, most key books have risen to astronomic values, and it would take that much money to pry them the owner's hands. For instance, if the government came out tomorrow and placed a $10 cap on all single comic book sales, what fool would actually want to part with their X-Men #1 for that amount?! Heck, the back-issue industry would come to a grinding halt because no one would be willing to sell their books at such low prices.

[Sir Ped of Ro]

I think you're oversimplifying what I wrote.

 

I guess it's a matter of perspective, but it just seems quite odd to me to be talking about seller's remorse in the context of:

"Man, I should have sold these books last year when I could have gotten a lot more for them! "

 

when I would think of seller's remorse in the context of:

"Man, why oh why did I ever sell that sweet, sweet book?!?! "

 

funny thing, that's what came to my mind while reading this topics title...guess it says all, i'm way more on the fanboy/collector than into the $$$/investisement/$$$ return mentality. and that's when you enjoy the most this hobby/form of art

 

regards

[Sir Ped of Ro]

Joe, can you please elaborate on what your definition of investor vs. pure collector is?

 

If comics were to become absolutely worthless tomorrow, investors and speculators would worried about their financial hit, while a collector would be unfazed. After all, he would still have all the books, which are the main focus.

 

If fire ravaged through an entire collection, a investor or speculator might give some thought to the actual books before calling the insurance company to get a big fat check, while a collector would be far more concerned with losing the actual books and how he would replace them in the future.

 

It all comes down to what your true hobby is. If you're constantly buying and selling, then like Donut and many others on here, it's likely your actual hobby is being a dealer.

 

I understand your point, but it's hard not think of a financial hit if your books cost you thousands of dollars vs. only a few dollars a piece. Insurance, safety deposit boxes, etc. are a huge necessity just like getting home or car insurance. It's like saying if the house you live in drops in value by $100,000 you shouldn't be fazed since you enjoy owning it anyway. If any expensive item we own goes down in value, it would have a negative impact on us no matter how much we love it.........it's human nature.

 

As a collector of significant/expensive books like AF #15 or FF #1 you're left with 2 options. You could either pass on purchasing your grails because you're worried about a financial hit if the book tanks in value, or take the chance and buy the book anyway. Personally, I don't think either option makes a person less of a collector. Unfortunately, most key books have risen to astronomic values, and it would take that much money to pry them the owner's hands. For instance, if the government came out tomorrow and placed a $10 cap on all single comic book sales, what fool would actually want to part with their X-Men #1 for that amount?! Heck, the back-issue industry would come to a grinding halt because no one would be willing to sell their books at such low prices.

 

imho there's no such thing (on a larger scale, of course there's always exceptions) as a pure collector (synonim as one who doesn't care about the $$$/comics value).

the important thing to have in mind is to put the $$$/comics value in second or third place of your "motivations", so in case these lose their value, of course anyone would be more or less affected by it, but as long as you're in this for the fun/hobby itself, you'll get over it.

 

too bad nowadays the investisor/$$$ has eaten the bigest chunck of the "collectors cake mentality"...people tend to forget that comics were meant to be enjoied/read and if possible shared. "all that seems to matter" is $$$$$$

 

regards

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

I think you're oversimplifying what I wrote.

 

I guess it's a matter of perspective, but it just seems quite odd to me to be talking about seller's remorse in the context of:

"Man, I should have sold these books last year when I could have gotten a lot more for them! "

 

when I would think of seller's remorse in the context of:

"Man, why oh why did I ever sell that sweet, sweet book?!?! "

 

Technically, I think you're definition of Seller's Remorse is more accurate.

 

I need to coin a phrase for what I was describing.....

[comicseekers-migration]

Joe, can you please elaborate on what your definition of investor vs. pure collector is?

 

If comics were to become absolutely worthless tomorrow, investors and speculators would worried about their financial hit, while a collector would be unfazed. After all, he would still have all the books, which are the main focus.

 

If fire ravaged through an entire collection, a investor or speculator might give some thought to the actual books before calling the insurance company to get a big fat check, while a collector would be far more concerned with losing the actual books and how he would replace them in the future.

 

It all comes down to what your true hobby is. If you're constantly buying and selling, then like Donut and many others on here, it's likely your actual hobby is being a dealer.

 

I understand your point, but it's hard not think of a financial hit if your books cost you thousands of dollars vs. only a few dollars a piece. Insurance, safety deposit boxes, etc. are a huge necessity just like getting home or car insurance. It's like saying if the house you live in drops in value by $100,000 you shouldn't be fazed since you enjoy owning it anyway. If any expensive item we own goes down in value, it would have a negative impact on us no matter how much we love it.........it's human nature.

 

As a collector of significant/expensive books like AF #15 or FF #1 you're left with 2 options. You could either pass on purchasing your grails because you're worried about a financial hit if the book tanks in value, or take the chance and buy the book anyway. Personally, I don't think either option makes a person less of a collector. Unfortunately, most key books have risen to astronomic values, and it would take that much money to pry them the owner's hands. For instance, if the government came out tomorrow and placed a $10 cap on all single comic book sales, what fool would actually want to part with their X-Men #1 for that amount?! Heck, the back-issue industry would come to a grinding halt because no one would be willing to sell their books at such low prices.

 

imho there's no such thing (on a larger scale, of course there's always exceptions) as a pure collector (synonim as one who doesn't care about the $$$/comics value).

the important thing to have in mind is to put the $$$/comics value in second or third place of your "motivations", so in case these lose their value, of course anyone would be more or less affected by it, but as long as you're in this for the fun/hobby itself, you'll get over it.

 

too bad nowadays the investisor/$$$ has eaten the bigest chunck of the "collectors cake mentality"...people tend to forget that comics were meant to be enjoied/read and if possible shared. "all that seems to matter" is $$$$$$

 

regards

 

Most hobbies that are fun and worth anything nowadays involves money, lots of it.

[LordRahl]

You keep starting these types of threads and not giving any sort of qualifiers as to what books you're talking about. I'm not seeing any more deals lately than I have any summer, pre '66 Marvels in 8.0+ are selling at or above GPA average, depending on page quality and how nice the book looks for its grade. Post '66 Marvels that are tough to find in grade are still going for astronomical prices and I believe so are bronze DC although I don't follow DC prices as much. So where are these across the board price drops?

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

You keep starting these types of threads and not giving any sort of qualifiers as to what books you're talking about. I'm not seeing any more deals lately than I have any summer, pre '66 Marvels in 8.0+ are selling at or above GPA average, depending on page quality and how nice the book looks for its grade. Post '66 Marvels that are tough to find in grade are still going for astronomical prices and I believe so are bronze DC although I don't follow DC prices as much. So where are these across the board price drops?

 

Well, let's just keep it to one of the books I've bought recently. Prices listed are recent sales (mostly April & May of 2006).

 

FF # 12 in mid grade is trending down across the GPA board:

- in 7.5 ($1,361..lowest sale since June 2004)

- in 6.5 ($686...lowest sale since Nov 2003)

- in 6.0 ($583..lowest sale since March 2004).

- in 5.5 ($620..lowest sale since April 2005).

 

I also recently bought a FF # 44 in CGC 9.4 for $218...lowest GPA recorded price for a 9.4.

 

I think the guy from GPAnalysis confirmed the downward trend on another thread, perhaps we can get a summary from him re: SA Marvel sales.

[Aces]

Working in Florida real estate, I've encountered the phenomenon of Seller's Remorse a lot the past few months. In many instances, it takes root in long time homeowner's who feel they might have "missed the boat" by not selling during last year's market peak, and often keep reducing their homes to bargain prices (compared to the market) just so they don't "lose anymore" of that ethereal paper equity they thought they had.

 

I guess its the same thing when you hold on to a stock for too long, refusing to sell at a hefty profit near the peak, and selling out of a sense of regret when it falls further from its highs.

 

How does any of this apply to comics, you ask...?

 

Lately, as I've been dipping my toes back into the back issue market, I've been noticing a continuation of a trend; prices on Silver Age Marvels keep trending down on eBay, and have been now for the better part of a whole year. More and more of the same type of material keeps being offered on ebay, and prices keep hitting new lows, or in some cases, are falling back to price levels of a few years ago. To exascerbate the problem of abundant supply, I've noticed a number of "long time collectors" selling off their books, perhaps because they realize the downward trend and are selling now out of a sense of the aforementioned 'seller's remorse'.

 

Now, some will argue that ebay is not the best gauge of the market. Personally, I couldn't disagree more. While some of the best material is indeed transacted privately and on sites like Pedigree and Heritage, ebay fills an important role in keeping the 2.0-9.0 grade ranges liquid and moving. An abundant supply of comparable material means buyers can be more discreet with their dollars. When listed without a reserve and are certified with good quality scans, comic sales on ebay are very representative of current market sentiment, IMHO. As for matters of seasonality, when the SA market was supa-hot a few years ago, it was setting records 365 days a year, so relying on "the summer slump" to explain waning comic prices is a bit simplistic.

 

So, are you seeing what I'm seeing, and where do you think it will all end up? Are we in the midst of a long term move away from SA Marvels and into other genres/ages or is the market as a whole experiencing a slowdown? If you take issue with my observations, please feel free to offer a counterpoint.

 

Energy prices.

3 years ago my costs for heat (natrual gas) alone was $100 month.

2 years ago: $150 month

last year: $225 month

And gas prices have gone form $1.75 to over $3.00 per gallon.

I figure I'm paying an extra $200 per month for energy.

Guess were it comes from.

The comic budget.

Other people are feeling the heat too no doubt.

[Aman619]

Im sure all that plays into it... but Id point to the diminishing fever exhibited each time a book appears for sale. As time goes on, we are less and less inclined to think any book is "rare" even in grade. As was pointed out before, in the old pre-CGC days, you bought a book pretty much in a vacuum. You and the dealer. You had no access to any other sales or market trend data except Overstreet Guides, Updates and market reports. We all bought or sold by the seta of our pants, and our hearts (love of the books) but merely guessed as to the relative scarcity of each book in any grade. And as CGC came about, lots of books looked like winners: early 9.2s and 9.4s etc. Does anyone here still think that way?

 

but, its impossible to generalize about the comics market: its very fragmented with plenty of exceptions.

[Aman619]

...generally speaking, that is!

[joe_collector]

I understand your point, but it's hard not think of a financial hit if your books cost you thousands of dollars vs. only a few dollars a piece. Insurance, safety deposit boxes, etc. are a huge necessity just like getting home or car insurance. It's like saying if the house you live in drops in value by $100,000 you shouldn't be fazed since you enjoy owning it anyway. If any expensive item we own goes down in value, it would have a negative impact on us no matter how much we love it.........it's human nature.

 

YOUR form of human nature, but be very careful of painting everyone the same as yourself. That's my point, that with the same scenario, two people would react differently - yet you're saying it's "human nature" that everyone would react the same.

 

To get away from comics for a second, let's say a few houses burn down; Guy 1 is despondent that he lost everything, Guy 2 is ecstatic that his family all made it out alive, and Guy 3 is already screaming at the Insurance Agent through his cell phone.

 

Same occurence, three different responses based on what type of person you are. No one is necessarily better than the other, just different.

 

Same with comics, and let's say Guy 1-3 also lost an AF 15 in the fire, a collector would be sad at losing such a key comic, an investor would be checking his insurance policy, and a flipper would be on the phone to his Agent, demanding a full insurance check deposited by Monday morning.

[LordRahl]

Well at least you are giving some qualifiers here. Now look at my qualifiers and tell me again where the across the board price drops are, like you claim in your original statement.

[tth2]

Your question seems more to do with investors remorse (not selling at the top)...

 

To me, sellers remorse occurs when you sell something you wish you would have kept...

[tth2]

Just like pre-CGC days, if it was a good book then, it's a good book now. If you were honest with yourself and knew the books were common you had to expect that some of the "lofty" prices were unsustainable.

 

Anyone who doesn`t understand this phenomenon should read the article about Bill Gross and stamp collecting that Esquire posted. If there`s one rule that has always been true about collectibles, it`s to ALWAYS go for rare items and best condition that you can find.