Amazing Spider-Man Collecting Thread! 37 37

[Kevin76]

On 11/23/2021 at 5:46 PM, Sweet Lou 14 said:

My general rule is:

• 9.8:  nothing but WP is acceptable unless we're talking about some freakishly old 9.8 where the census number is low, and I generally don't buy those kinds of books in 9.8 anyway
• 9.6:  would only settle for OW/W in rare circumstances
• 8.0 - 9.4:  OW/W is perfectly acceptable, don't want to settle for OW unless it's early Silver Age and I really have to
• below 8.0:  OW or better strongly preferred, routinely settle for less on pre-hero books

Definitely. I'd never buy a Bronze-Present without white pages.  Silver age I stick to OW/W or better.  Golden age...Crm/OW depending on how rare the book is. No Tan unless it's a Detective 27   

[Straw-Man]

i'm a little less structured here--my criteria:  i love white pages.   i like ow/w pages.   i'm just ok on o/w.   for silver i have avoided c/ow except for a very small group scattered among 3 of the 6 s.a. marvel titles i collect.  i think there are 4 c/ow books, and none are spideys.

[MattTheDuck]

Here's one that's escaped me for 45 years, courtesy of @crassus in today's mail. 

 

[Pantodude]

Hope all had a nice holiday weekend.  It seems like mere mortals would fare better with a less-structured (i.e., less picky) approach to page quality if the plan is to complete a PC in a reasonable timeframe, especially during periods of hyper-appreciation for SA keys.   Better to buy SA keys (and more of them) sooner rather than later if prices are generally going up, right? 

Assume two hypothetical dudes, X and Y, to make this point clear.   Each had $100K (and only $100K) to spend on ten different SA keys over a two-year period, specifically 2019-2021.  For simplicity, assume a fixed $10K for each SA book during 2019, which doubled year-over-year during this period.    

X, much like Thor above, wanted nice-looking books, but he insisted on white interior pages, too.  X’s motto: “Patience is a virtue.”  

During 2019, X managed to find only two W-page books and spent $20K in total.  In 2020, with the spotty availability of keys during that wild year, X only managed to find one other book, which now cost him $20K.   And so far in 2021, X found only one more book, which cost him $40K.   The $20K in books spent in 2019 quadrupled to $80K in 2021.  The $20K spent during 2020 doubled to $40K in 2021, while the $40K spent recently in 2021 remained unchanged.  So X is now sitting on four books worth $160K, plus $20K in unspent cash.  A nice return on $100K, to be sure, and X pats himself on the back.  But how did Y make out? 

Y, an impatient wretch, did not hesitate to pull the trigger on nice-looking books of varying page quality.   Y’s motto:  Carpe diem.     

During 2019, while prices remained unchanged, Y managed to find all ten SA keys by spending the whole $100K that year.  As expected, the books varied in page quality, some C/OW, OW, and OW/W, and some W.   By 2021, all those books quadrupled in value compared to 2019, so Y is now sitting on ten SA key books worth $400K.  

To recap, X today has only 4 of the 10 books, with his PC valued at $160K.  The $20K left over is not enough to buy another book (now $40K).  By contrast, the less picky Y has all 10 books on his want list, valued at $400K, and his PC is done.  Y not only captured all of the appreciation the last two years, but has been enjoying ownership of all 10 keys for two years and counting.  And if Y ever decides to upgrade his books (or chase different keys), he’s in a much better position to do so.  

All this is easier to say in hindsight, of course, but SA keys have rarely remained flat or depreciated for long in past decades, mostly enjoying steady gains year over year, especially using a longitudinal perspective.  So it seems like a less-structured approach is a safer bet if history is any indication.    Going forward is a trickier question.  Who knows what the future holds. 

 

Edited November 29, 2021 by Pantodude

[MattTheDuck]

On 11/29/2021 at 3:33 PM, Pantodude said:

It seems like mere mortals would fare better with a less-structured (i.e., less picky) approach to page quality if the plan is to complete a PC in a reasonable timeframe, especially during periods of hyper-appreciation for SA keys.   Better to buy SA keys (and more of them) sooner rather than later if prices are generally going up, right? 

Assume two hypothetical dudes, X and Y, to make this point clear.   Each had $100K (and only $100K) to spend on ten different SA keys over a two-year period, specifically 2019-2021.  For simplicity, assume a fixed $10K for each SA book during 2019, which doubled year-over-year during this period.    

X, much like Thor above, wanted nice-looking books, but he insisted on white interior pages, too.  X’s motto: “Patience is a virtue.”  

During 2019, X managed to find only two W-page books and spent $20K in total.  In 2020, with the spotty availability of keys during that wild year, X only managed to find one other book, which now cost him $20K.   And so far in 2021, X found only one more book, which cost him $40K.   The $20K in books spent in 2019 quadrupled to $80K in 2021.  The $20K spent during 2020 doubled to $40K in 2021, while the $40K spent recently in 2021 remained unchanged.  So X is now sitting on four books worth $160K, plus $20K in unspent cash.  A nice return on $100K, to be sure, and X pats himself on the back.  But how did Y make out? 

Y, an impatient wretch, did not hesitate to pull the trigger on nice-looking books of varying page quality.   Y’s motto:  Carpe diem.     

During 2019, while prices remained unchanged, Y managed to find all ten SA keys by spending the whole $100K that year.  As expected, the books varied in page quality, some C/OW, OW, and OW/W, and some W.   By 2021, all those books quadrupled in value compared to 2019, so Y is now sitting on ten SA key books worth $400K.  

To recap, X today has only 4 of the 10 books, with his PC valued at $160K.  The $20K left over is not enough to buy another book (now $40K).  By contrast, the less picky Y has all 10 books on his want list, valued at $400K, and his PC is done.  Y not only captured all of the appreciation the last two years, but has been enjoying ownership of all 10 keys for two years and counting.  And if Y ever decides to upgrade his books (or chase different keys), he’s in a much better position to do so.  

All this is easier to say in hindsight, of course, but SA keys have rarely remained flat or depreciated for long in past decades, mostly enjoying steady gains year over year, especially using a longitudinal perspective.  So it seems like a less-structured approach is a safer bet if history is any indication.    Going forward is a trickier question.  Who knows what the future holds. 

 

You know, the quality of the pages never even occurred to me until I "returned" to this hobby a year ago and found out there was such a thing.  If you'd asked me what color the paper was in a comic book in 2019, I would have said "tan."  In fact, the general quality of the Silver Age comics I bought in the 70s was not a concern of mine, so I have a lot of probably 3.5 - 6.0 books because it also never occurred to me that it made any difference.  I just liked "having them" and reading them.  I bought the back issues I needed that were available at the LCS's in my area almost regardless of condition.  I would have searched harder for white page, VF/NM and above if that's what was important to me or if I'd had better foresight.  In the long run, of course, I cost myself hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars because I had the wrong idea of what would be important 50 years later.  I can live with it, but now that I am buying higher quality books, I have no doubt no one will want them in the unlikely future where I might want to sell.  Future high dollar sales will probably be exclusive to remaindered copies or Signature Series (which I also don't like).

[Sweet Lou 14]

On 11/29/2021 at 6:33 PM, Pantodude said:

Hope all had a nice holiday weekend.  It seems like mere mortals would fare better with a less-structured (i.e., less picky) approach to page quality if the plan is to complete a PC in a reasonable timeframe, especially during periods of hyper-appreciation for SA keys.   Better to buy SA keys (and more of them) sooner rather than later if prices are generally going up, right? 

Assume two hypothetical dudes, X and Y, to make this point clear.   Each had $100K (and only $100K) to spend on ten different SA keys over a two-year period, specifically 2019-2021.  For simplicity, assume a fixed $10K for each SA book during 2019, which doubled year-over-year during this period.    

X, much like Thor above, wanted nice-looking books, but he insisted on white interior pages, too.  X’s motto: “Patience is a virtue.”  

During 2019, X managed to find only two W-page books and spent $20K in total.  In 2020, with the spotty availability of keys during that wild year, X only managed to find one other book, which now cost him $20K.   And so far in 2021, X found only one more book, which cost him $40K.   The $20K in books spent in 2019 quadrupled to $80K in 2021.  The $20K spent during 2020 doubled to $40K in 2021, while the $40K spent recently in 2021 remained unchanged.  So X is now sitting on four books worth $160K, plus $20K in unspent cash.  A nice return on $100K, to be sure, and X pats himself on the back.  But how did Y make out? 

Y, an impatient wretch, did not hesitate to pull the trigger on nice-looking books of varying page quality.   Y’s motto:  Carpe diem.     

During 2019, while prices remained unchanged, Y managed to find all ten SA keys by spending the whole $100K that year.  As expected, the books varied in page quality, some C/OW, OW, and OW/W, and some W.   By 2021, all those books quadrupled in value compared to 2019, so Y is now sitting on ten SA key books worth $400K.  

To recap, X today has only 4 of the 10 books, with his PC valued at $160K.  The $20K left over is not enough to buy another book (now $40K).  By contrast, the less picky Y has all 10 books on his want list, valued at $400K, and his PC is done.  Y not only captured all of the appreciation the last two years, but has been enjoying ownership of all 10 keys for two years and counting.  And if Y ever decides to upgrade his books (or chase different keys), he’s in a much better position to do so.  

All this is easier to say in hindsight, of course, but SA keys have rarely remained flat or depreciated for long in past decades, mostly enjoying steady gains year over year, especially using a longitudinal perspective.  So it seems like a less-structured approach is a safer bet if history is any indication.    Going forward is a trickier question.  Who knows what the future holds. 

 

To be clear about my own collection, and to perhaps use it as an example that illustrates your point, I'm only being as picky as I am because I have literally completed all of my runs.

More specifically, in the Bronze Age I have at least 9.4 for everything, in some cases 9.6 OW/W, and I'm trying to upgrade all of those to 9.6 WP.  But there was no way I was going to wait until finding 9.6 WP and leave holes open.  Those runs were completed a couple of years ago.

In the Silver Age, there are plenty of books that are super hard to find in 9.4 at all, much less 9.4 OW/W.  To take Journey Into Mystery as one example, my goal is to one day own #83 through #85 in 9.0 and #86 through #125 in 9.4.  But frankly I could be waiting forever to find some of these books in grade.  I have been more than happy -- thrilled actually -- to "settle" for #83 and #84 in 8.0, #88 in 9.2, #89 in 9.0, #94 in 8.0, #102 in 9.4 CR/OW, and #103 in 9.0.  That's because it's no exaggeration to say that, except for #83, I have not seen any upgrades for those issues available for sale in the last three years plus.  When one comes up (again, except for #83 where I am trying to be very patient and selective), I will pounce.

Some books have been so hard to find (for me at least) that I had no copy at all when 2021 kicked off.  And I said forget it, I'm going to get a copy at whatever grade I can find and worry about upgrading later.  So (for example) in order to complete my Tales to Astonish run, this past April I picked up #40 in 6.0 and #42 in 7.5 because those were the best copies available.  The quest for a 9.4 for each of these issues goes on, but in the meantime I would absolutely make the jump to 8.0 or 9.0 if the opportunity presents itself.

As you say, this strategy rests on an assumption that the market continues to grow, even if it's slow and steady.  So far that assumption has held up quite well.

Edited November 30, 2021 by Sweet Lou 14

[ickwinzs]

Finally the last piece of my 21-50 CGC 8.0 run (for now)! I may try to upgrade my 20 soon but happy with the way the run is for now.

[Yale Stewart]

Hello, everyone. This is my first time posting in this part of the forums, so I hope I'm not making any mistakes.

I come seeking advice. I'm finally committing to trying to acquire an ASM #1, as I'm worried if I don't act soon I'll be permanently priced out, and was wondering if you all had any tips.

I have a pretty modest budget--I MIGHT be able to touch $10k but I'd really rather not--so I know I'm looking at probably 1.5-1.8, tops. I'm just hoping for some information, like if there's a general consensus on when may be a good time to try to buy. For example, we all know the new movie is coming out in less than two weeks. I'm wondering if now would be buying at the absolute top of demand, or if books command higher prices after release? It's also the holiday season, so I don't know if that has any impact.

I'm really just coming back to collecting for the first time since the early 2010s, when these books were at prices I could generally afford--including the copy of ASM 1 that I sold in 2011, thinking surely a low grade copy will be able to be had for ~$2000 for at least another 5-10 years. Joke's on me, obviously. The point being it seems like collecting has grown much more complicated, and certainly when you're having to financially stretch to acquire something. 

Anyway, I feel like I'm beginning to ramble. I apologize. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[MattTheDuck]

On 12/6/2021 at 9:12 PM, Yale Stewart said:

Hello, everyone. This is my first time posting in this part of the forums, so I hope I'm not making any mistakes.

I come seeking advice. I'm finally committing to trying to acquire an ASM #1, as I'm worried if I don't act soon I'll be permanently priced out, and was wondering if you all had any tips.

I have a pretty modest budget--I MIGHT be able to touch $10k but I'd really rather not--so I know I'm looking at probably 1.5-1.8, tops. I'm just hoping for some information, like if there's a general consensus on when may be a good time to try to buy. For example, we all know the new movie is coming out in less than two weeks. I'm wondering if now would be buying at the absolute top of demand, or if books command higher prices after release? It's also the holiday season, so I don't know if that has any impact.

I'm really just coming back to collecting for the first time since the early 2010s, when these books were at prices I could generally afford--including the copy of ASM 1 that I sold in 2011, thinking surely a low grade copy will be able to be had for ~$2000 for at least another 5-10 years. Joke's on me, obviously. The point being it seems like collecting has grown much more complicated, and certainly when you're having to financially stretch to acquire something. 

Anyway, I feel like I'm beginning to ramble. I apologize. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Nobody knows the future, but it seems like in recent years, it's always been the right time to buy these major key books.  Sometimes if you wait around for a market dip, it never shows up and the book can really get away from you.  If you're committed, and can stomach it if the book goes down in price a little in the next year or five, I think long-term you're not going to lose anything.

[Yale Stewart]

On 12/6/2021 at 11:56 PM, MattTheDuck said:

Nobody knows the future, but it seems like in recent years, it's always been the right time to buy these major key books.  Sometimes if you wait around for a market dip, it never shows up and the book can really get away from you.  If you're committed, and can stomach it if the book goes down in price a little in the next year or five, I think long-term you're not going to lose anything.

Yeah, I completely understand that. I was just wondering if there'd been noticeable patterns for short-term buys, like how I mentioned re: the movie release and stuff. Obviously it's impossible to tell if the books will have some kind of mild snap-back, though one can certainly hope.

[MattTheDuck]

On 12/6/2021 at 10:21 PM, Yale Stewart said:

Yeah, I completely understand that. I was just wondering if there'd been noticeable patterns for short-term buys, like how I mentioned re: the movie release and stuff. Obviously it's impossible to tell if the books will have some kind of mild snap-back, though one can certainly hope.

Around here I think the general opinion is there's a run-up in price before the movie release and then a price drop afterwards, but perhaps not down to the pre-movie-announcement level.  My personal view is that won't happen with a big key like ASM #1.  I think that's on a general uptrend for awhile yet.

[Sweet Lou 14]

On 12/7/2021 at 12:12 AM, Yale Stewart said:

Hello, everyone. This is my first time posting in this part of the forums, so I hope I'm not making any mistakes.

I come seeking advice. I'm finally committing to trying to acquire an ASM #1, as I'm worried if I don't act soon I'll be permanently priced out, and was wondering if you all had any tips.

I have a pretty modest budget--I MIGHT be able to touch $10k but I'd really rather not--so I know I'm looking at probably 1.5-1.8, tops. I'm just hoping for some information, like if there's a general consensus on when may be a good time to try to buy. For example, we all know the new movie is coming out in less than two weeks. I'm wondering if now would be buying at the absolute top of demand, or if books command higher prices after release? It's also the holiday season, so I don't know if that has any impact.

I'm really just coming back to collecting for the first time since the early 2010s, when these books were at prices I could generally afford--including the copy of ASM 1 that I sold in 2011, thinking surely a low grade copy will be able to be had for ~$2000 for at least another 5-10 years. Joke's on me, obviously. The point being it seems like collecting has grown much more complicated, and certainly when you're having to financially stretch to acquire something. 

Anyway, I feel like I'm beginning to ramble. I apologize. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

This is awesome and it's going to be a lot of fun following along as you find the book you're looking for!

I do think in general that the run-up to a movie is the worst time to buy, but we're not talking about Shang-Chi, we're talking about Spider-Man ... so I don't think it's likely that the book will take a big fall after the next movie comes out.  The best analogy I can draw from my own personal experience is that I bought my AF #15 in the summer of 2017, right before Tom Holland's first movie came out, and I was disappointed for a while that prices on the book were pretty stagnant (in retrospect you could say it was flat, or maybe slightly down, but always in the ballpark of what I paid).  Fast forward to 2021 and my investment is in very good shape.  So I think you'll probably have a similar experience.

The best advice I can offer is that low-grade books are not created equal.  You would be better off taking your time and searching for a copy with strong eye appeal, whose defects you feel happy with, than pouncing on the first one you find in your price range.  Don't be afraid to pay a little more for that better copy because whatever that premium is, it will only grow (to your benefit) over time.

Good luck in the hunt!

[Yale Stewart]

On 12/7/2021 at 6:47 AM, Sweet Lou 14 said:

This is awesome and it's going to be a lot of fun following along as you find the book you're looking for!

I do think in general that the run-up to a movie is the worst time to buy, but we're not talking about Shang-Chi, we're talking about Spider-Man ... so I don't think it's likely that the book will take a big fall after the next movie comes out.  The best analogy I can draw from my own personal experience is that I bought my AF #15 in the summer of 2017, right before Tom Holland's first movie came out, and I was disappointed for a while that prices on the book were pretty stagnant (in retrospect you could say it was flat, or maybe slightly down, but always in the ballpark of what I paid).  Fast forward to 2021 and my investment is in very good shape.  So I think you'll probably have a similar experience.

The best advice I can offer is that low-grade books are not created equal.  You would be better off taking your time and searching for a copy with strong eye appeal, whose defects you feel happy with, than pouncing on the first one you find in your price range.  Don't be afraid to pay a little more for that better copy because whatever that premium is, it will only grow (to your benefit) over time.

Good luck in the hunt!

Thanks, I really appreciate the input!

[jimjum12]

Wow .... ASM 63 in CGC 9.4 just hammered on Clink for over 6K .... not quite as eye opening as the Avengers 48 (CGC 9.8) for north of 26K ... GOD BLESS....

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

[mlovest]

On 12/7/2021 at 9:26 PM, jimjum12 said:

Wow .... ASM 63 in CGC 9.4 just hammered on Clink for over 6K .... not quite as eye opening as the Avengers 48 (CGC 9.8) for north of 26K ... GOD BLESS....

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

Crazy!

[MattTheDuck]

Hooray!

 

[sledgehammer]

On 12/8/2021 at 12:12 AM, mlovest said:

On 12/7/2021 at 11:26 PM, jimjum12 said:

Wow .... ASM 63 in CGC 9.4 just hammered on Clink for over 6K .... not quite as eye opening as the Avengers 48 (CGC 9.8) for north of 26K ... GOD BLESS....

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

Crazy!

It's been graded over 9.2 about 1/10th as many times as ASM 64.

Not really that crazy.

White pages, and really sharp looking too. I would rather have it than an OW 9.6.

[Straw-Man]

it's  a good book, fersure.

[Jordysnordy]

On 12/8/2021 at 12:26 AM, jimjum12 said:

Wow .... ASM 63 in CGC 9.4 just hammered on Clink for over 6K .... not quite as eye opening as the Avengers 48 (CGC 9.8) for north of 26K ... GOD BLESS....

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

 

[Jordysnordy]