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X-men 1 original Art..Wow.

Started by notch_top,

44 posts in this topic

rob_react

rob_react

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The guy who was known to be the owner of those pages was half-humorously tossing around an asking price of one million dollars for that artwork ten years ago. At the time it was so impossibly high people weren't even going to get a sniff at it. Times have changed I guess...

 

Amazing to see them surface. I only halfway believed that they really existed (even though people I trusted validated their existence.)

 

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dam60

dam60

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Wasn't a lot of artwork stolen from Marvel headquarters in the 80s? I had heard something about it, but unless someone has some facts it is just that - heresay.

 

I tell you, that would be quite something to behold . . .

 

DAM

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rob_react

rob_react

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Kirby obviously would have wanted to get this art back, but at the time Marvel didn't have it, so it probably was outside the scope of that campaign.

 

Since the statute of limitations is up...

 

The rumor was, this book, and plenty of other early Marvel art, was stolen from the Marvel offices in the late 70s by a disgruntled employee. That employee then went to a local NYC convention and sold all of the pages where this book was picked up by a New York area dealer.

 

The last time I was aware of these pages was right around the time of the first Sotheby's auction. I had a conversation with a dealer comparing the new X-Men #1 sale vs. the potential $$ to be made in the sale of the original X-Men #1 which was held by someone we both knew. Since then, who knows what's happened to it.

 

 

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dam60

dam60

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If i had the cash, i'd jump on this in a heartbeat... I agree... $700k in today's market doesn't seem all that high.

 

Brian, I'm sorry but I have to take issue with this one - $700K is a LOT of money!!! Even in the ridiculous NYC real estate market you can fully pay for a lot of nice apartments, buy a house, etc.

 

I find today's market for really expensive books/art to be not meeting my expectations - examples: in the last Heritage Auction Signature Sale these were the prices realized for some key north of $50K books:

Action 1 cgc 5.5 $120K

Marvel Comics 1 cgc 8.5 $126.5K

ASM 15 cgc 9.4 $86.25K (est. $125K and up)

Spider-Man 1 cgc 9.6 $92K (est $100K and up)

Detective 27 cgc 5.5 not sold - estimate $80K up

Showcase 4 cgc 8.5 not sold - estimate $60K up

Alex Schomburg - Original Cover Art for Human Torch Comics #16 (Timely, 1945). not sold - estimate $175K up

 

Sure, this isn't the original art to X-Men #1, but there was a lot less of a market for this $50K+ stuff that one might expect. Plus with $700K you can have just about all of the above . . .

 

that's not to say that if I weren't a billionaire I wouldn't buy it at that price, but if I were a billionaire that would aslo be the equivalent to me buying my monthly Batman comics . . .

 

DAM

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murph0

murph0

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if it was way low, wouldn't someone have bought it by now? It's been available for a couple months now? Unless this is a new catalog? I don't know, I tossed mine when he mailed it.

 

Brian

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Foolkiller

Foolkiller

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DAM:

 

no, i see your point... but here's why I think that it is worth it...

 

Original artwork is, or course, one of it's kind. You are not only buying the artwork from an incredibly key issue (x-men #1) of arguably Marvel's best property (outside of spider man) and it is the full issue's work (22 pages) from Kirby whose work especially from this time period isn't readily available. I've never seen AF #15 or Amazing Spider Man # 1 artwork available in full or even in parts for that matter.

 

Compare this to what a CGC 9.6 amazing fantasy# 15 would go for if one was around... $100k , $200k ? I have no idea really... but the reason why it's so valuable is that it would be perceived as being the best. One of the reasons that makes any comic so valuable is its scarcity in condition... for this grouping of artwork the same principle is in play... once it's gone, it's gone forever, and the pages are historic. What would someone pay for the Mile High action #1... more than a million I'm sure... so to me $700k for these pages is on target for this area of the market... and I do think these pages would hold their value.

 

The specimens you named (outside of the Marvel comics# 1) weren't the best known copies of those books, so it's no the market for those particular books that to me is the problem but rather the prices they're at... I think there'd be heavy, heavy activity from people if there was a 9.4 unrestored Action #1 or Detective #27... I'm putting these pages in that category.

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dam60

dam60

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Brian - I welcome the opportunity at this intelligent discourse! grin.gif

 

Original artwork is, or course, one of it's kind. You are not only buying the artwork from an incredibly key issue (x-men #1) of arguably Marvel's best property (outside of spider man) and it is the full issue's work (22 pages) from Kirby whose work especially from this time period isn't readily available. I've never seen AF #15 or Amazing Spider Man # 1 artwork available in full or even in parts for that matter.

 

Comparable Cost of Kirby Original Art

First while surely original artwork is one of a kind, I think that this has to be placed within context. Because it is one of a kind, there is no precedent market for it. So the best thing to do, IMO, is to compare this to other pieces of kirby art that has sold and other kirby x-men to be specific. Of course to this analysis, I would add a premium for it being the first X-men book. Now let's look at the following:

This auction was the highest priced example of Kirby's art that I could find on ebay's completed auction search feature. Now I know that this is not a page from X-men 1, but this is an original published piece that features great pics of 10 different characters, a very nice piece. It closed at $3,150. Now, how much more of a premium would X-Men #1 have for a page (and please keep in mind that this is a cover)? would you say 3x? Okay, so now we are at $9.5 per page. 22 page comic, right? Let's say 32 just incase I made a mistake and the SA books were longer than they are now.

32*9.5=$304K.

Now, how do you value the cover? Would you say it is worth approximately the same as the GA cover to Human Torch 16? (from Heritage?) if so add $175K - that's $500K, well short of $700 asking price.

 

This example is definitely ludicris, but how do you really value original art?

 

 

Compare this to what a CGC 9.6 amazing fantasy# 15 would go for if one was around... $100k , $200k ? I have no idea really... but the reason why it's so valuable is that it would be perceived as being the best. One of the reasons that makes any comic so valuable is its scarcity in condition... for this grouping of artwork the same principle is in play... once it's gone, it's gone forever, and the pages are historic. What would someone pay for the Mile High action #1... more than a million I'm sure... so to me $700k for these pages is on target for this area of the market... and I do think these pages would hold their value.

 

The perception of being the best is different with art collectors - everything is "the best" since they are all originals

While of course the scarcity in grade is a huge contributing factor to it's actual market value, you cannot apply the same principle to the original art market. Being a genuine original, there is only one confirmed piece of art in existance. While a 9.6 of AF 15 might be the top census now, there is no definitive guarantee that there will not be something higher down the line. Maybe a 9.4 could get resubed? Maybe something will turn up? who knows? By definition, every piece of original art is scarce.

 

The specimens you named (outside of the Marvel comics# 1) weren't the best known copies of those books, so it's no the market for those particular books that to me is the problem but rather the prices they're at... I think there'd be heavy, heavy activity from people if there was a 9.4 unrestored Action #1 or Detective #27... I'm putting these pages in that category.

 

You are pricing 99.999% of the "collectors" out of the market

I definitely agree that a 9.4 blue label A 1 or DC 27 would fetch stupid money. No doubt. But at that level you are pricing people out of the market. Besides metropolis or the mint, both of which have a bottomless pit of money IMO, who could afford that?

 

Well, I did a little research. According to the BLS (burea of labor and statistics)"Earnings averaged $16.23 per hour for all private industry and State and local government workers in the United States". Okay, so let's just say that someone were to work 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year (of course it's not possible, but stay with me here) that person would earn $142,174.80 a year. So if that person worked almost 5 years (assuming that they could put 100% of their salary towards this purchase) they could afford it.

 

I did a little more research. Do you like Central Park South? I sure do. In fact, I would rather have this apartment than the original art to that book!! tongue.gif

 

The Original X-Men Suck

Ever read Rob React's Site? The X-Men may be second to Spider-Man now, but that's due to GS 1 more than X-Men one. Otherwise how woud you explain his June 12th post where X 1 is not even in the top 20 of SA books? I know that tastes change, but personally I am interested in the BA and modern X-Men (and have a full run from 143-350) but don't care at all about the SA stuff . . .

 

To use myself as an indicator, I try to keep my comic purchases no more than 10% of my income

So using that analysis I would have to make 7.0mm a year in cash to do that. The CEO of most major Fortune 500 Corporations don't make that . . .

 

Brian, I welcome your response, but I just can't see how people could seriously afford this. It's crazy money - especially when you consider what else you could buy with it outside of the comics market

 

Personally, JP uses stuff like that and his outrageously priced ebay auctions as advertizing and nothing more. He isn't advertizing that to get a buyer, he is advertizing that to show everyone that he's the man . . .

 

My two cents,

 

DAM

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shadroch

shadroch

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A few more points to consider-Who knows what else is out there in terms of Kirby art.Was the theft a one time deal or an organized ongoing enterprise?I have heard rumors to both aspects.Full books are not often available because the inker gets a few, the letterer gets one, the colorist,ectWhile the New X-Men are hot, this is the old X-men. Think JSA not JLA.For it to be a good investment, you need to have the possiibility of a nice return. This books breakup value is worth less than its whole value so you need to find a buyer who has deep pockets,is not adverse to dealing in stolen prperty, and likes the X-Men. Not a huge market. And not to harp on it, but if artwork stolen fifty years ago by nazi's is being returned to the rightful owners heirs,what makes you think this is immune. The Kirby family and their friends have deep pockets, and long memories.

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dam60

dam60

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A few more points to consider-Who knows what else is out there in terms of Kirby art.Was the theft a one time deal or an organized ongoing enterprise?I have heard rumors to both aspects.Full books are not often available because the inker gets a few, the letterer gets one, the colorist,ectWhile the New X-Men are hot, this is the old X-men. Think JSA not JLA.For it to be a good investment, you need to have the possiibility of a nice return. This books breakup value is worth less than its whole value so you need to find a buyer who has deep pockets,is not adverse to dealing in stolen prperty, and likes the X-Men. Not a huge market. And not to harp on it, but if artwork stolen fifty years ago by nazi's is being returned to the rightful owners heirs,what makes you think this is immune. The Kirby family and their friends have deep pockets, and long memories.

 

Great points - I know for a FACT that the entire book of FF #3 (the earliest known FF surviving art) is intact . . .

 

DAM

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JiveTurkeyMoFo

JiveTurkeyMoFo

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I remember that back in '94, there was an original three panel piece of original artwork that was the first ever comic strip appearance of Superman. It was done by S&S to sell the Superman concept in "strip" form a few years before he made his first comic appearance in Action # 1. The details are hazy, but I believe the item did not hit its reserve (which was considerable, $80k-$90k was what the catalogue estimated the final selling price to be) )in the Sotheby's auction that year, but I think sold privately thereafter.

 

Now to me, that three panel piece would be far more important (in a general comic book sense) than even the full story to X-Men # 1. Yet, even being such a unique and historic piece, it still did not meet its reserve at auction. Why? My guess would be that when you're talking about that type of money, unless you have a lot of it to burn, its not easy being the trendsetter on something without a definitive high dollar sales history.

 

Whoever buys the original artwork for X-men # 1 would have to be pretty convinced it will sell for a 1 Mil + in the future. The market, as of yet, has not established such a threshold.

 

 

.

 

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