CLEANED COMICS IS THE WAY TO GO!!

[comicinvestor-migration]

that's the day your opinions on something you're almost entirely ignorant about will be any less than 80% to 90% worthlessly biased and uninformed. Until then, it's mostly coming out of the wrong end of your body

 

What happened FF, your gay lover bring a few friends by last night? Must be hell to sit down and type that out in one session.

 

I hope he brings by the local football team tonight. Yee-Haw!!!

[murph0]

The day you can sit down and identify the difference between a restored and unrestored book would be just about as moot a point as me telling you to show me the difference between a 9.9 and 10.0 unless you have resources available to you..there's no way to tell.

 

Brian

[fantastic_four]

Jest doin mah part ta stop th' flow o' ignorance, ma'am.

[comicinvestor-migration]

Well, I have verifiable price data that shows CGC prices are fading on my side, and you have rationalization and rhetoric on yours.

 

It's satisfying to finally prove to the unintiated that...

 

I am always right.

[blowout]

"I am always right. "

 

.............modest too.............

 

[aardvark88]

If a collector has handled enough silver age bks, they can detect a restored copy in 95% of the cases without a blacklight. Golden age bks are a little tougher due to the irregular pg count during the war yrs (some Timely's had ODD # pg count), but reinforcement & color touch should be detectable in 90% of the cases w/o a blacklight IMHO.

[comicinvestor-migration]

While I do admit to be a pretty quick guy, I just state things that should be readily apparent, but for some reason aren't.

 

For example, a bunch of us were getting ready for a night out and Jeopardy was on the tube. It was Final Jeopardy time and it was 10K, 9K and 3K (or so) for the contestants.

 

I stated that it was strange that none of the second-place guys just don't bet Zero, as that is by far the highest-percentage gambit.

 

Through the commercial break, I listened to my buds try and convince me that you have to bet it all and hope that the first-place guy gets it wrong. I just rolled my eyes and waited for my theory to be proven.

 

Bingo, everyone got the question wrong, and the 2nd and 3rd-place guys bet it all and lost. Then the craniums started working and my friends slowly realized that betting anything while in second place risks everything (ie. the 2nd place guy needs the 1st place one to answer incorrectly to even have a chance), with the only possible payout being a slightly higher pot (in the unlikely event 1st -who incidentally proved himself smarter through the entire game- misses and 2nd doesn't).

 

Then, almost in unison: "Hey, you're right".

 

It also amazes me that highly-intelligent people on Jeopardy never play the right odds when in second place.

[Darthdiesel]

It also amazes me that highly-intelligent people on Jeopardy never play the right odds when in second place.

 

CI - it shouldn't amaze you, as all who can read human nature know quite well, intelligence gives way to greed. Mo money mo money, mo money! CHA CHING and $$$ all over the brain and all logic fails...

[Darthdiesel]

btw, on the playstation version of Jeopardy! I always bet it all.Only wusses hold back and play the odds!

[comicinvestor-migration]

You've just proved my point Darth, that normally intelligent people can miss the most obvious angles.

 

I actually did see a guy do that once, and Alex did a serious "you crazy man?" double-take at his goose-egg bet. Then when everyone got the question wrong (it was Ballet I think), the winner punctuated it with a big ear-to-ear grin.

 

And I was grinning right along with him.

[fantastic_four]

The facts and figures are that throughout the 60+ years of comic book collecting, prices on slightly restored comics are at an all-time low. For 40-50 years, it didn't affect them much. For the last 10 to 15 years, it has. And over the last 3 years, CGC has intensified prior misconceptions. Why? Because once the reality of restored books became common knowledge, we went from blissful ignorance to fearful ignorance.

 

Your facts and figures are based on a very similar brand of short-sightedness that fueled the overly HIGH prices of common comics. It's like the opposite of the CGC mania that led to OVERLY-priced books.

 

The current myopia is that uncommon but slightly restored comics should be overly LOWLY priced. The ignorance is fueled by fear--fear of the unknown. Murph put it into pretty good terms--the number of people who can tell a cleaned and pressed comic are about as numerous as the people who can tell a 9.9 from a 10.0. And just like the overpriced common Modern hype, the underpriced uncommon restored hype is fueled mostly by the slab, not by the reality of the book inside it.

 

Once people awaken to the comic beyond the price tag and the slab and are able to find restoration on their own, the restored comics market will recover, ESPECIALLY the issues with the slightest, non-additive or removable work done.

[FlyingDonut]

Isn't Alex a Canucklhead as well? See, its a plot! All the Canucks coming down here! I'll have to use my duck-sounding Quebecois french!

 

And, just for the record, the title of this thread should be "Cleaned Comics ARE the way to go". The subject for the verb is "comics", a plural, so the verb should also be plural. Just want to set it straight. Not that anybody cares, but small pet peeves.

[murph0]

I don't know why we keep having to have these conversations. It was put to rest on the other topic now ablue creates one with basically "propaganda" for the title. Let it rest..people will buy them if they want to..obviously you like them, good for you..let others have their own preferences. If restoration prices are at an all-time low there's a reason, it's because people don't want books that are restored.. call it what you want..but it's simply a case of someone not wanting the book. I don't see what we accomplish by constantly having the same conversation nitpicking what should and what shouldn't be called restoration, and then follow that up with "well, the market is currently wrong for restored books". Isn't there anything else to talk about in this forum?!?!?

 

Brian

[fantastic_four]

Pretty easy to oversimplify the reason people paid too much for ultra-high-grade CGC Moderns over the last three years like you just did for restored books. Here's your statement slightly altered:

"Let the discussion of why people overpay for CGC books rest..people will buy them if they want to..obviously those people like them, good for them..let others have their own preferences. If ultra-high-grade Modern CGC prices are at an all-time high there's a reason, it's because people want books that are CGC'd."

But the reasons people overpaid for CGC Moderns was more complex than that, wasn't it? Same goes for books with minor, nonadditive restoration or conservation techniques applied.

 

This conversation continues because it's in the "Golden Age Comics" forum. This is the PRIME place for a conversation about restoration/conservation to continue. ABlue's argument wasn't "put to rest" before; just because nobody backs up an idea during one thread doesn't mean that idea was bad to begin with.

[ablue]

I don't understand why MURPH0 keeps on complaining about other peoples views on a subject. Why does he constantly assume that his views are correct and everyone else does not have a say in a matter? Since I came to this board every post I made was challanged by him but I never see him creating an educational topic that has any interest. Who is he to dictate what is OK to say and not? He seemes to come off as an expert yet I have read HIS posts which often asked for help in some restoration topics. Murph as I said before I don't have a problem with you, the only problem is your pestfullness to always stick your nose in a subject that you have no place in. Like I said before, if you don't like MY posts dont read! Don't tell me what I should write and not write as you have alot to learn on this subject. This area is for GOLDEN AGE and there are many people interested in this topic that collected books while you were still in pre-school. I don't think they appreciate some rich kid who thinks is a know it all to control their hobby. Sorry but this is the impression I get from you.

[murph0]

My views? I'm not one running around posting how great cleaned books are. If they are so wonderful why don't you clean and press your entire collection of books that would benefit from such a process?

As for FF altering words and such..the market dictates what people will or will not buy..if restored books aren't going for a lot it's because people don't want to buy them. I don't see how it can get more simple then that..if a book ends with no bids, it's either because the price is too high to start with or no1 wants it. Now we know the price isn't too high on these books as it's a fraction of what the original book goes for..that leaves..mmm...not a whole lot of people want them. I'd gladly take a lower graded copy over a cleaned and pressed higher copy anyday and I'd waiger despite all this complaining about restoration...most of you would do the same. So let's be honest.."cleaned comics isn't the way to go".

 

Brian

[fantastic_four]

Just like two years ago, it was pretty obvious that $200 for Secret Wars #8s in CGC 9.8 condition were the way to go. That's what the market bears, simple as that, people want 'em, so that's what they're worth.

 

Forever? You appear to have the same long-term vision those guys had--what's going on now is how things are and always will be! Forget the past, forget buyer psychology and supply factors. Who cares what led to the downfall of restored comics prices, and just ignore what causes it to continue.

[PovertyRow]

the market dictates what people will or will not buy. if restored books aren't going for a lot it's because people don't want to buy them.

 

There is a lot of truth in this. But one thing to consider is - what is the market? There are literally thousands of folk attending conventions even now. Why? Because ebay is NOT the best venue for a non-cgc book and the wise folk know that. I have bought maybe 10 comics on ebay in the last 5 years. I have been really happy with about 50%. And I know a slew (yeah - "slew" is a word (I think) ) of East Coast folk who do the same - wait for the Boston or NY Cons and see the books live. (Again, please remember I am talking in the GA folder - God I HOPE this is the GA folder). A fair degree of the currently most visible market is of the same ilk that made Valiant books do insane things in both the up and down directions (unfortunately the up direction came first - ).

 

Anyway, as usual, I am not saying what people SHOULD want. If folks feel a clean/press devalues a book by 25-75% I am all for it! If they refuse to buy it then again I am all for it - I can add to my collection a lot cheaper. I can get books of high structural integrity, with my ow-w fetish pages, at bargain prices. What I AM saying is there is a whole different market for the days when that white stamp did not exist. Are they buying thousand dollar books? Not often. Usually they are paying $50-300 for really classic "non-key" books. They know it, too!

 

So I suggest we all - in favor or not in favor - of restoration in part or in full - let each other do what they wish.

 

 

[murph0]

I don't recall Secret Wars #8 in 9.8 EVER being the way to go. There were some people paying large $$ for flash in the pan stuff but it was never the way to go. And I never said forever, I'm refering to this guys post that restored comics should be bought up like hotcakes. Just as you said in your example of S.W's it certainly sounded like a good idea at the time...but ended up not being..sort of like how this whole restoration thing could turn out.

 

Brian

[Guest]

My posting is not for selling restored comics or taking my collection and cleaning them. MY post is to create a conversation regarding an issue that is not totally understood. What I am saying is that if a book is in need to remove a type of dirt that will harm the book in the future there is nothing wrong in doing it. NOTHING was added to the book it is totally original! So I don't know where you are getting this propaganda issue MURPH0....It seemes you prefer your way and I mine.... but I dont go searching for you on the board to tell you how or what you should write about you can't dictate what should or should not be said.