Old Label vs New Label

[infinite_comics-migration]

I think the new labels are far better. The grade is much more visible as the numbers are a much larger print.

 

Never understood why decades of history had to be thrown out and I still refer to books as VF+s and NM-s.

 

Because that system was stupid to begin with With a numerical system even those not as familiar with grading would have an idea to the quality of the book. Everyone would have an idea what a 2.5 out of 10 would look like--although a GD+ would be a mystery to many. "Is it really a "good" book???" The old system was a bad idea from the start.

 

Considering the total lack of 'new blood' coming into the hobby, the numerical system has turned into CGC trying to teach old dogs new tricks.

 

And the 'bad idea from the start' seemed to work fine and dandy for 25 years, as I'm sure you remember....

 

By nature of each rating on the old system having no relative value to each other unless the system is learned and studied...what would make it better then a system where all you must know are you numbers from 1 to 10? If you can explain to me how the old system is better with that being said, then you deserve a cookie.

 

It would separate the real collectors from the speculators. CGC only dumbed down the label so it would be easier for the speculators to operate. You said it yourself, if "the system is learned and studied" then you'd know what you're doing, and those are the kind of people we want to stay in the hobby. Who cares if speculators get burned? Hopefully that would drive them out of the hobby (Jay Parrino ).

 

And if you don't buy that, explain why both grades can't be on the label?

(I already have my opinion, I want to see if our answers match )

 

It doesn't matter why someone is involved in the hobby--what matters is if they are or are not involved.

 

Even people like Jason Ewert? Like Matt Nelson, a restoration expert who sells comics on Ebay? It matters to me why people like this are in the hobby...

 

Personal opinion as to the quality of people involved in the hobby should have no influence on a grading system.

 

That's what CGC did basically they said "screw those dinosaurs using the Overstreet terminology!"

[Flaming_Telepath]

"Real collectors" or "speculators"? That sounds like comic industry elitist rubbish. It doesn't matter why someone is involved in the hobby--what matters is if they are or are not involved.

 

There's speaks someone who didn't live through the early 90s in this hobby.

 

Before talking about 'history', try learning some.

[mica]

"Real collectors" or "speculators"? That sounds like comic industry elitist rubbish. It doesn't matter why someone is involved in the hobby--what matters is if they are or are not involved.

 

There's speaks someone who didn't live through the early 90s in this hobby.

 

Before talking about 'history', try learning some.

[Sal]

The new label books seem to be in some kind of sleeve, while the old label books are not. Does anyone know what that "sleeve" is made of.

Also, do you keep your slabs upright in a box or keep them lying flat. I'd like to keep them upright, but am concerned that this might damage the bottom of the comic over time (especially the old label books since there is no "sleeve").

Also, welcome to the boards mike!

 

i keep them on their side, spine side down. i've seen problems with just about every method though, from SSS to warpage, so it's kind of a carpshoot in all honesty

[KingOfRulers]

 

There's speaks someone who didn't live through the early 90s in this hobby.

 

Yup, that's me. What does that matter anyway? Idiotic ideas in the 90's are probably still *spoon* today.

 

Seeing as how you have no logical defense for your point besides the idea of the length of time it has been around, as well as an elitist view point certainly provokes the thought that you just like to talk for the heck of it. No rhyme or reason behind the idea...but then again, why have reasoning?

[infinite_comics-migration]

 

There's speaks someone who didn't live through the early 90s in this hobby.

 

Yup, that's me. What does that matter anyway? Idiotic dealers in the 90's are probably still *spoon* today.

 

It matters a lot. The whole "if you don't learn from history, you're doomed to repeat it" etc...

Believe me, you wouldn't be saying "It doesn't matter why someone is involved in the hobby" if you had lived/collected through the early 90's. I witnessed the infestation of sportscard dealers trampling our hobby like cockroaches.

[adams]

it was not only the "*coc- a-roach" sports card dealers (see Al Pacino enunciation in SCARFACE) that infested the hobby...but what about the brainwashed

collectors such as Capps, Buss and Khasian who marched zombie-like to

the ravings of Snyder and company ??

They paid crazy prices for stuff that wasn't worth it..which in turn caused

a ripple effect on other issues!

 

(can't believe I had to change the spelling of the insect to have it show up!)

[comicdonna]

I am puting a collection of books together, and It's going to be new label only. I'm not sure if one is better than the other, but, I personally, like the look of the new label better, and I want to avoid having a collection of mixed old label/new label books.

[KingOfRulers]

 

There's speaks someone who didn't live through the early 90s in this hobby.

 

Yup, that's me. What does that matter anyway? Idiotic dealers in the 90's are probably still *spoon* today.

 

It matters a lot. The whole "if you don't learn from history, you're doomed to repeat it" etc...

Believe me, you wouldn't be saying "It doesn't matter why someone is involved in the hobby" if you had lived/collected through the early 90's. I witnessed the infestation of sportscard dealers trampling our hobby like cockroaches.

 

I was still into the hobby in the early 90's as that was when I was just getting started. Of course I wasn't as involved in it as I am now, but did frequent the stores as often as possible.

 

Sports card dealers don't have to do with the CGC label. You're getting pretty off topic. History is not repeating itself. Nobody has yet been able to give me an intelligent reason as to why the older system is more practical than a numerical system. Seems like a lot of people wanting to relive the days when they were 40 pounds lighter and snatching up X-force #1s.

[Flaming_Telepath]

Nobody has yet been able to give me an intelligent reason as to why the older system is more practical than a numerical system.

 

I gave you the reason, a damned good reason.

 

The alpha system has defects specifically assigned to grades.

 

The numerical system has no defined public parameters whatsoever.

 

One system is specific. The other is guesswork.

 

Of course, I'm sure that's not 'intelligent' enough for you. Let's just go with '10 good, 1 bad'.

[Flaming_Telepath]

 

There's speaks someone who didn't live through the early 90s in this hobby.

 

Yup, that's me. What does that matter anyway? Idiotic ideas in the 90's are probably still *spoon* today.

 

Seeing as how you have no logical defense for your point besides the idea of the length of time it has been around, as well as an elitist view point certainly provokes the thought that you just like to talk for the heck of it. No rhyme or reason behind the idea...but then again, why have reasoning?

 

You simply don't get it, do you?

 

You claimed that speculators are good for the hobby....without any evidence.

 

My position is that speculators are bad for the hobby....backed by the evidence of the speculator-induced crash of the early 90s that almost wiped out the comic industry entirely.

 

No evidence behind your claim...but then again, why have evidence?

[SolitaireOne]

I am puting a collection of books together, and It's going to be new label only. I'm not sure if one is better than the other, but, I personally, like the look of the new label better, and I want to avoid having a collection of mixed old label/new label books.

 

YEP ! For me, in some sets only the New-Style will do (ie: my ASM "Show-and-Tell Set"), yet for other graded copies that may be a bit more scarce (ie: those seen in my Human Fly "Righteous Rojatt's Set" ), I can't afford be too picky!

[ImageMask]

When coming up with a system by which an entire industry runs, you want that system to be as user friendly as possible. In general, when something is more complex, there are more things that go wrong with it and more things involved in understanding it. A system is best when even an unfamiliar person can grasp it in a short period of time.

 

I was like 12 when I started collecting and had the alpha system down in a matter of weeks. The time to apply the alpha grade to how a book "looks" is what takes time. The numerical system suffers from the same realization and is no less complex in it's relation.

[KingOfRulers]

I gave you the reason, a damned good reason.

The only true reason you have yet to give is that it has been around for a longer period of time. That's considered a good reason?

 

The alpha system has defects specifically assigned to grades.

 

The numerical system has no defined public parameters whatsoever.

 

One system is specific. The other is guesswork.

 

Of course, I'm sure that's not 'intelligent' enough for you. Let's just go with '10 good, 1 bad'.

 

The numerical system can be applied in the same manner as the older system. The numbers can entail the exact same defects allowed or not allowed in any given grade. A "NM" will have the same guidelines a "9.4" will have--the only difference being that the more casual collector will have an idea what a 9.4 means and not so much with NM.

[KingOfRulers]

 

You simply don't get it, do you?

 

You claimed that speculators are good for the hobby....without any evidence.

 

I get it perfectly. I think you get it as well. It is your interpretation in thinking that you know what is "good" for a hobby and what is "bad" that gets me. Speculators have just as much a right to be in this hobby as anyone else. I did not say they were good or bad--but nonetheless they can be here just like you or I. And if I had to guess, I'd say most collectors have "speculated" at some point whether they would be branded a "speculator" or not.

 

My position is that speculators are bad for the hobby....backed by the evidence of the speculator-induced crash of the early 90s that almost wiped out the comic industry entirely.

 

Speculators did not induce a crash. You can thank the comic publishers themselves for that. Speculators are just the tail end of a cycle that starts with the comic creating companies. While spectulators were a part of it, they did not have the power to cause the crash.

 

No evidence behind your claim...but then again, why have evidence?

 

I was going to ask you the same thing since your claim is purely your opinion of speculators.

[Flaming_Telepath]

The only true reason you have yet to give is that it has been around for a longer period of time. That's considered a good reason?

 

Go back and read postings from last night, wherein I explained that the numerical system is not defined. That was the 'good reason' I had already given.

 

The numerical system can be applied in the same manner as the older system. The numbers can entail the exact same defects allowed or not allowed in any given grade. A "NM" will have the same guidelines a "9.4" will have--the only difference being that the more casual collector will have an idea what a 9.4 means and not so much with NM.

 

No, that is how you apply it. It's not how CGC necessarily apply it, and it's certainly not the way I apply it (colour-breaking corner creases in NM-).

 

It's all guesswork, as it is not laid down/written out/set in stone anywhere as to what is specifically allowed, or disallowed, in 8.5, for example.

 

You have simply decided that whatever was a VF+ is now an '8.5'. Although you have no evidence whatsoever to back that up.

 

The numerical system as seen on a slab is CGC's system. It is not publically defined. How could that ever be a better system?

[Flaming_Telepath]

While spectulators were a part of it, they did not have the power to cause the crash.

 

Errr....that's precisely what they did, because they were the only ones who could. They were the boys that bought in such high numbers that print runs got bigger and bigger and dealers stocked more and more copies. They were also the ones who were dumping their horded books by the box loads when the $1,000,000 didn't appear overnight, flooding the market whilst at the same time withdrawing their regular high cash input and going and spending it on cuddly toys instead.

 

I was going to ask you the same thing since your claim is purely your opinion of speculators.

 

No, it's my opinion (based on my own personal experience as a dealer at the time) of the effect speculators had on the hobby.

[Foolkiller]

King:

 

Don't the Comic Companies (like Valiant, Image etc in the 90s) simply respond to the demand in the market place from speculators buying thousands of copies or whatever spiking and artificially inflating demand?

 

To me, you can't have one without the other, and that's when a crash can ensue, because the demand isn't real.

[KingOfRulers]

 

Errr....that's precisely what they did, because they were the only ones who could. They were the boys that bought in such high numbers that print runs got bigger and bigger and dealers stocked more and more copies. They were also the ones who were dumping their horded books by the box loads when the $1,000,000 didn't appear overnight, flooding the market whilst at the same time withdrawing their regular high cash input and going and spending it on cuddly toys instead.

 

Who supplies the speculators?!? Speculators are the consumers. They can't consume the product unless some producer is going to supply them with the product. If the publishers or dealers/stores wanted to keep demand going then maybe they should have offered less product. Who knows, maybe if done correctly Death's Head #1 would be worth more than $.05. Speculators can only consume what they are offered. It is up to the producers to decide how to keep the desire for their product strong for the future.

 

I was going to ask you the same thing since your claim is purely your opinion of speculators.

 

No, it's my opinion (based on my own personal experience as a dealer at the time) of the effect speculators had on the hobby.

 

Then that should make it even easier for you to understand that speculators are the last entity involved in the process.

[Flaming_Telepath]

King:

 

Don't the Comic Companies (like Valiant, Image etc in the 90s) simply respond to the demand in the market place from speculators buying thousands of copies or whatever spiking and artificially inflating demand?

 

To me, you can't have one without the other, and that's when a crash can ensue, because the demand isn't real.

 

 

Thank you. In a nutshell. And probably better articulated than my efforts.