Old Label vs New Label

[lizards2]

Well I PM'd Mister_not_so_nice and he remembered the scans.

I couldn't find it last night in this forum but it was in the Copper forum Not sure how relevent it is to this evolving discussion LINK Scroll down to see the scans.

 

The speculator kid's expressions are priceless.

 

Those are some very funny scans. Again, we're back at the same old point. Comics are poor investment vehicles. They are meant to be collected for fun and enjoyment. For appreciation of art and story. For nostalgia. Not to get rich.

 

I've tried to stay out of all of this, because its the same old compostable_fertilizer from the same old people, but that phrase "comics are poor investment vehicles" is patently ridiculous, and is always brought up when this speculator *spoon* gets tossed up (again, always by the same people, some of whom have been banned from this board at least twice and keep coming back under new IDs, but that's a completely different issue).

 

Not all comics are "poor investment vehicles", just as much as not all stocks are poor investment vehicles. If you know what you're doing, and are investing money you can be OK with losing, comics are just as good a speculative investment as anything else. Do people lose their shirts "investing" in comics? Yes, they do - and people lose their shirts investing in the stock market, or in real estate, or in commodities, or in bonds. Many, many, many people do quite well, thank you, "investing" part of their money in comics. Its the same as anything else. Do your research, be an informed investor, and you'll be just fine.

 

But of course, that would be contrary to everybody's OH MY GOD THE SKY IS FALLING beliefs about how everybody is losing their shirts and everybody is going to be eating cat food and the market is being manipulated and .

 

 

You are absolutely correct. I'm a collector first, so I buy alot of worthless *spoon*. But, I have 35 years of collecting knowledge - and if I chose to, I could invest quite wisely in the comics market - it's like shooting fish in a barrel. I don't know anywhere else that I could make the kind of return that I do in comics - probably because I don't have the knowledge of any other investment vehicles to make them work for me. I love comics because I truly can win utilizing my knowledge of the hobby - not many hobbies like that - most involve tremendous losses in capital.

[lizards2]

Father

 

I was once like you are now, and I know that its not easy,

To be calm when youve found something going on.

But take your time, think a lot,

Why, think of everything youve got.

For you will still be here tomorrow, but your dreams may not.

 

Son

 

How can I try to explain, when I do he turns away again.

Its always been the same, same old story.

From the moment I could talk I was ordered to listen.

Now theres a way and I know that I have to go away.

I know I have to go.

 

- Cat Stevens

 

Yeah, but look where Cat is now.....,

 

Well, he said he "had to go".......guess we know where now......

 

 

Really too bad..., I loved his music.

[KingOfRulers]

Can someone give me a short definition of a speculator?

 

I don't want to give anyone the wrong impression of me. I collect comics, because I have always been fascinated with the GA covers. To me, my comic collecting is my greatest enjoyment outside of my immediate family. I also think of my books, as a possible retirement investment. What fine line separates a collector from a speculator? It seems to me, that a speculator must has some appreciation for comics, otherwise, why would he/she choose comics as an investment?

 

I know that this is an intense thread, and I am not looking for a hostile reply, just some input, on the difference between a collector and a speculator.

 

Oh yeah, that's another thing. Thanks for asking the question.

 

It seems to me that the term "speculator" is given a very negative definition, with justifiable reasoning to back it up I suppose. But in essence a speculator is anyone who purchases a book with the speculation to profit from it in the future. I'd say that almost everyone here would fall under that. It seems that "speculation" is only bad when it concerns a certain type of investment, but if other forms of speculation are okay.

[Red Hook]

Father

 

I was once like you are now, and I know that its not easy,

To be calm when youve found something going on.

But take your time, think a lot,

Why, think of everything youve got.

For you will still be here tomorrow, but your dreams may not.

 

Son

 

How can I try to explain, when I do he turns away again.

Its always been the same, same old story.

From the moment I could talk I was ordered to listen.

Now theres a way and I know that I have to go away.

I know I have to go.

 

- Cat Stevens

 

Yeah, but look where Cat is now.....,

 

Well, he said he "had to go".......guess we know where now......

 

 

Really too bad..., I loved his music.

 

Good, because he'll be releasing his first album of pop songs in about 28 years, in about two weeks. "An Other Cup".

 

No joke.

[The Troll King]

Father

 

I was once like you are now, and I know that its not easy,

To be calm when youve found something going on.

But take your time, think a lot,

Why, think of everything youve got.

For you will still be here tomorrow, but your dreams may not.

 

Son

 

How can I try to explain, when I do he turns away again.

Its always been the same, same old story.

From the moment I could talk I was ordered to listen.

Now theres a way and I know that I have to go away.

I know I have to go.

 

- Cat Stevens

 

Yeah, but look where Cat is now.....,

 

Actually he has a new CD coming out any day now.

 

EDIT: Was a little late with this I see!

[The Troll King]

 

Yeah, who is right?

 

The one lone voice with four years' collecting experience...

 

Or the ton of guys who have been around for friggin' decades and have seen it all before, have been hip-deep in it in one capacity or another, and happen to agree that it's not quite how four-years-experience guy sees it.

 

Oh, here it goes again. You unreasonable old *spoon* always pull this one out at some point. But you go right on ahead and blindy meet any demand set in front of you. Go ahead.

 

 

I think it's funny how KoR gets so personally offended anytime anyone brings up age and life experience.

 

I've never known anyone to be filled with as much self-loathing as him.

 

Because of that mind-set he's always going to accuse everyone of playing some "card" or "trick".

 

It's to bad too, because with someone so passionate about this hobby you'd think they'd be willing to listen and learn something, but then again we're all just old "geezers" in his eyes and we are the closed-minded ones as far as he is concerned.

[awe4one]

Not all comics are "poor investment vehicles", just as much as not all stocks are poor investment vehicles. If you know what you're doing, and are investing money you can be OK with losing, comics are just as good a speculative investment as anything else.

 

You seem to have an oxymoron here...people don't tend to "invest" with money they're OK with losing...

 

Regardless, how many speculators aren't playing with money they can lose? That was the primary cause of the 90s crash...once the specs saw the market start to weaken they dumped in spades to cut their losses and drug the rest of the market, even those who "speculated" responsibly, down with them...

 

And I'd argue that the premium investment items in the hobby which one can place their money without extreme worry of the overall market affecting them are few...

 

Jim

[KingOfRulers]

 

I think it's funny how KoR gets so personally offended anytime anyone brings up age and life experience.

 

I've never known anyone to be filled with as much self-loathing as him.

 

Because of that mind-set he's always going to accuse everyone of playing some "card" or "trick".

 

It's to bad too, because with someone so passionate about this hobby you'd think they'd be willing to listen and learn something, but then again we're all just old "geezers" in his eyes and we are the closed-minded ones as far as he is concerned.

 

Your posts are all the same. I've responded to near identical posts in the past. Move along...

 

Listen and learn something? So, are you the old wise chief of the bunch? Is Crazyhorse supposed to sit down and listen to your stories? If I truly got offended by any comments here, I would no longer be posting. I know who is worth taking seriously and who isn't.

 

Learning something best done from someone worth listening to. Your age does not give you intelligence or wisdom. Someone can be an i d i o t or a genious old geezer. You on the other hand...nevermind.

[The Troll King]

 

I think it's funny how KoR gets so personally offended anytime anyone brings up age and life experience.

 

I've never known anyone to be filled with as much self-loathing as him.

 

Because of that mind-set he's always going to accuse everyone of playing some "card" or "trick".

 

It's to bad too, because with someone so passionate about this hobby you'd think they'd be willing to listen and learn something, but then again we're all just old "geezers" in his eyes and we are the closed-minded ones as far as he is concerned.

 

Your posts are all the same. I've responded to near identical posts in the past. Move along...

 

Listen and learn something? So, are you the old wise chief of the bunch? Is Crazyhorse supposed to sit down and listen to your stories? If I truly got offended by any comments here, I would no longer be posting. I know who is worth taking seriously and who isn't.

 

Learning something best done from someone worth listening to. Your age does not give you intelligence or wisdom. Someone can be an i d i o t or a genious old geezer. You on the other hand...nevermind.

 

This type of attitude and response is exactly what I expected and am talking about.

[FlyingDonut]

.people don't tend to "invest" with money they're OK with losing...

 

That's an inaccurate statement, to the extreme. Speculative investments, which should only be a small part of your investment portfolio, should only be made with money you aren't afraid of losing. I can point you to all sorts of professional investing guides that say the same thing. Replace the word "comics" with the word "Land" and you're doing the same thing - you're investing in a speculative investment that has a high risk-reward curve.

 

Should people invest their money solely in comics? Of course not. It should be viewed as a small, fun portion of your overall portfolio, whatever part of your portfolio you don't have to worry about. Some people throw mad money at extremely aggressive tech stocks, some people throw their mad money into condos at the beach, and some people throw their mad money into collectibles. Its all the same thing.

 

And I'd argue that the premium investment items in the hobby which one can place their money without extreme worry of the overall market affecting them are few...

 

You're not looking very hard, then. You should absolutely not be investing in anything where the price appreciation has already been built in. All slabs - out. All books where you're paying a market premium - out. And, your statement holds true for all investment classifications. Replace the word "hobby" with "the stock market" or "the land market" or anything else. Believe me, there are a multitude of areas of the market where you can get a strong return. I will make a very significant ROI on money I've put into comics in 2006, and have done so for many previous years, and I'm sure I'm not alone.

 

I simply do not understand the belief that you can't "invest" in the comic market. I've been in it for 30 years, and I think I know what I'm doing at this point, and the same goes for many many other people on this board.

[Foolkiller]

 

King,

 

My way is not to dump on people or make snide remarks. I could, but I don't, it doesn't make your argument better.

Whether you believe it or not, are aware of it or not, you have more than once resorted to that. That is just from what I have read. I of course cannot speak for threads I did not participate in.

 

New comics are NOT akin to a collectible first, I think of them as a publication/periodical first bought for entertainment first. That's the way many new comic readers view them, and while there is a collectible aspect to it, the owners view it less as marketing a collectible and more as a product.

 

If you think I don't understand some basic market points, I suggest you finish your college degree, get some real world experience and not pretend that at 19, you've figured out the answers to the comic book market.

You're the one who was comparing comics and IPods, not me. I was as a matter of fact giving you examples to why that is a flawed comparison. I am not pretending anything. It seems that much of anyones arguement is soley based on my age. Had I kept my identity a secret as many here do, it would have made no difference. But why would I do that? I have nothing to hide. When you have no other logical point to arguement, that is the only point you bring up. I've heard it all before.

 

So, do you think because you are the age you are that you are the all knowing, and all mighty? It seems you do sometimes. You're opinion or analysis is no more valuable or less valuable then mine, or any other board member here.

 

Stephen,

 

Here's what I find personally insulting. You've callen me up and asked me for assistance in helping you on some of the points and insights into the hobby. Heck, you called me up to ask me to front you money to buy a Captain America GA book, which I was at least willing to consider doing. I tried to at least put you in touch and put in a good word for you with Steve Borock so that you could maybe get some experience with CGC. Do you really think that I'm lecturing you to be an a**hole to you? No. And I really believe that the vast majority people here aren't being rude to you either.

 

Maybe I have been ripping people and name calling from time to time. That's fair. But don't try to act like I'm stupid and you're smart. Please. It's insulting and it's far from the truth.

 

As for who's opinion is more valuable -- all I can say is that my credentials and track record speak for itself in the hobby. I think the same is true as to others who disagree with you. I've never once said I was all knowing -- but I've also reached out to you in the past and spent time chatting comics -- do you really think I'd do that if I thought you were an a** hole. But you're sure acting like one lately.

[Red Hook]

He's a kid.

 

We're hardened board warriors.

 

I think you chalk it up to youthful exhuberance, cut him some slack....and he'll either figure it out or go the way of the dodo.

 

[supapimp]

[Foolkiller]

He's a kid.

 

We're hardened board warriors.

 

I think you chalk it up to youthful exhuberance, cut him some slack....and he'll either figure it out or go the way of the dodo.

 

 

you're right Brad, you're right. I should. Point taken.

[Red Hook]

I say he'll be okay.

 

BTW....after I wrote that....I realized that compared to me....YOU'RE a kid TOO!

 

 

Grampy Brad

[Foolkiller]

But I respect my elders!!!! I know it's scary. Of course, I ran into some young ADAs the other day who when they met me referred to me as "old school". I was stunned.

[FlyingDonut]

I say he'll be okay.

 

BTW....after I wrote that....I realized that compared to me....YOU'RE a kid TOO!

 

 

Grampy Brad

 

Everybody is.

[Red Hook]

sorry, did you say something? I think I nodded off........zzzzzzzzz

 

 

 

[KingOfRulers]

 

Stephen,

 

Here's what I find personally insulting. You've callen me up and asked me for assistance in helping you on some of the points and insights into the hobby. Heck, you called me up to ask me to front you money to buy a Captain America GA book, which I was at least willing to consider doing. I tried to at least put you in touch and put in a good word for you with Steve Borock so that you could maybe get some experience with CGC. Do you really think that I'm lecturing you to be an a**hole to you? No. And I really believe that the vast majority people here aren't being rude to you either.

And I appreciate every bit of it. But that does not mean I cannot disagree with you. Through this entire thread I have only stated my viewpoint on the topic--it doesn't go the same way as yours. That happens. Why you are taking insult to this, I don't know.

 

Maybe I have been ripping people and name calling from time to time. That's fair. But don't try to act like I'm stupid and you're smart. Please. It's insulting and it's far from the truth.

 

I don't think you are stupid. I think many of the things you have stated on the topic are wrong, but am I not allowed to disagree with you? Is any disagreement taken as an insult by you?

 

As for who's opinion is more valuable -- all I can say is that my credentials and track record speak for itself in the hobby. I think the same is true as to others who disagree with you. I've never once said I was all knowing -- but I've also reached out to you in the past and spent time chatting comics -- do you really think I'd do that if I thought you were an a** hole. But you're sure acting like one lately.

 

All of this because I disagree with you? If that's how you feel, I can't do anything about it. I'm not going to agree with you 100% of the time. I have stated everyones opinion is as important as the other. Would I have said that if I believed your opinion was any less valuable?

[Foolkiller]

 

Stephen,

 

Here's what I find personally insulting. You've callen me up and asked me for assistance in helping you on some of the points and insights into the hobby. Heck, you called me up to ask me to front you money to buy a Captain America GA book, which I was at least willing to consider doing. I tried to at least put you in touch and put in a good word for you with Steve Borock so that you could maybe get some experience with CGC. Do you really think that I'm lecturing you to be an a**hole to you? No. And I really believe that the vast majority people here aren't being rude to you either.

And I appreciate every bit of it. But that does not mean I cannot disagree with you. Through this entire thread I have only stated my viewpoint on the topic--it doesn't go the same way as yours. That happens. Why you are taking insult to this, I don't know.

 

Maybe I have been ripping people and name calling from time to time. That's fair. But don't try to act like I'm stupid and you're smart. Please. It's insulting and it's far from the truth.

 

I don't think you are stupid. I think many of the things you have stated on the topic are wrong, but am I not allowed to disagree with you? Is any disagreement taken as an insult by you?

 

As for who's opinion is more valuable -- all I can say is that my credentials and track record speak for itself in the hobby. I think the same is true as to others who disagree with you. I've never once said I was all knowing -- but I've also reached out to you in the past and spent time chatting comics -- do you really think I'd do that if I thought you were an a** hole. But you're sure acting like one lately.

 

All of this because I disagree with you? If that's how you feel, I can't do anything about it. I'm not going to agree with you 100% of the time. I have stated everyones opinion is as important as the other. Would I have said that if I believed your opinion was any less valuable?

 

I'm over it. You're a good person Stephen, I like you overall. It's not disagreeing with me that's the problem, it's condescending nature you post with when I'm not sure that it's warranted based on your experience... And I'm less concerned with your attitude with me, and more towards everyone else it seems like.