Old Label vs New Label

[awe4one]

That's an inaccurate statement, to the extreme. Speculative investments, which should only be a small part of your investment portfolio, should only be made with money you aren't afraid of losing.

 

And I agree with you there...but I think the bulk of comics speculators are not investing with money they can readily lose...and will bail at the first sign of trouble. Speculators as you describe don't pull the trigger so quickly...

 

You're not looking very hard, then. You should absolutely not be investing in anything where the price appreciation has already been built in. All slabs - out. All books where you're paying a market premium - out. And, your statement holds true for all investment classifications. Replace the word "hobby" with "the stock market" or "the land market" or anything else. Believe me, there are a multitude of areas of the market where you can get a strong return. I will make a very significant ROI on money I've put into comics in 2006, and have done so for many previous years, and I'm sure I'm not alone.

 

I'm happy for you FD...but you aren't the norm. You found a process that works for you and stick to it. But I stand by my statement that sound investments in this hobby are far fewer than other areas to include the stock market.

 

Jim

[kc120us]

Well I PM'd Mister_not_so_nice and he remembered the scans.

I couldn't find it last night in this forum but it was in the Copper forum Not sure how relevent it is to this evolving discussion LINK Scroll down to see the scans.

 

The speculator kid's expressions are priceless.

 

Those are some very funny scans. Again, we're back at the same old point. Comics are poor investment vehicles. They are meant to be collected for fun and enjoyment. For appreciation of art and story. For nostalgia. Not to get rich.

 

I've tried to stay out of all of this, because its the same old compostable_fertilizer from the same old people, but that phrase "comics are poor investment vehicles" is patently ridiculous, and is always brought up when this speculator *spoon* gets tossed up (again, always by the same people, some of whom have been banned from this board at least twice and keep coming back under new IDs, but that's a completely different issue).

 

Not all comics are "poor investment vehicles", just as much as not all stocks are poor investment vehicles. If you know what you're doing, and are investing money you can be OK with losing, comics are just as good a speculative investment as anything else. Do people lose their shirts "investing" in comics? Yes, they do - and people lose their shirts investing in the stock market, or in real estate, or in commodities, or in bonds. Many, many, many people do quite well, thank you, "investing" part of their money in comics. Its the same as anything else. Do your research, be an informed investor, and you'll be just fine.

 

But of course, that would be contrary to everybody's OH MY GOD THE SKY IS FALLING beliefs about how everybody is losing their shirts and everybody is going to be eating cat food and the market is being manipulated and .

 

 

FD, perhaps I was harsh in my choice of words. The point I was trying to make in the midst of the this *spoon* storm of speculator vs collector and crash of the 90's stuff that has dominated this thread was that we are forgeting that the real reason a lot of us collect comics is for fun. Yes, you can do very well with comics if you do your research and make your purchases and sales intelligently. This thread has just gotten way off track from where it had started and I was trying to remind people why we are in this hobby. So, I apologize if my poor choice of words angered you.

[FlyingDonut]

Well I PM'd Mister_not_so_nice and he remembered the scans.

I couldn't find it last night in this forum but it was in the Copper forum Not sure how relevent it is to this evolving discussion LINK Scroll down to see the scans.

 

The speculator kid's expressions are priceless.

 

Those are some very funny scans. Again, we're back at the same old point. Comics are poor investment vehicles. They are meant to be collected for fun and enjoyment. For appreciation of art and story. For nostalgia. Not to get rich.

 

I've tried to stay out of all of this, because its the same old compostable_fertilizer from the same old people, but that phrase "comics are poor investment vehicles" is patently ridiculous, and is always brought up when this speculator *spoon* gets tossed up (again, always by the same people, some of whom have been banned from this board at least twice and keep coming back under new IDs, but that's a completely different issue).

 

Not all comics are "poor investment vehicles", just as much as not all stocks are poor investment vehicles. If you know what you're doing, and are investing money you can be OK with losing, comics are just as good a speculative investment as anything else. Do people lose their shirts "investing" in comics? Yes, they do - and people lose their shirts investing in the stock market, or in real estate, or in commodities, or in bonds. Many, many, many people do quite well, thank you, "investing" part of their money in comics. Its the same as anything else. Do your research, be an informed investor, and you'll be just fine.

 

But of course, that would be contrary to everybody's OH MY GOD THE SKY IS FALLING beliefs about how everybody is losing their shirts and everybody is going to be eating cat food and the market is being manipulated and .

 

 

FD, perhaps I was harsh in my choice of words. The point I was trying to make in the midst of the this *spoon* storm of speculator vs collector and crash of the 90's stuff that has dominated this thread was that we are forgeting that the real reason a lot of us collect comics is for fun. Yes, you can do very well with comics if you do your research and make your purchases and sales intelligently. This thread has just gotten way off track from where it had started and I was trying to remind people why we are in this hobby. So, I apologize if my poor choice of words angered you.

 

[kc120us]

Well I PM'd Mister_not_so_nice and he remembered the scans.

I couldn't find it last night in this forum but it was in the Copper forum Not sure how relevent it is to this evolving discussion LINK Scroll down to see the scans.

 

The speculator kid's expressions are priceless.

 

Those are some very funny scans. Again, we're back at the same old point. Comics are poor investment vehicles. They are meant to be collected for fun and enjoyment. For appreciation of art and story. For nostalgia. Not to get rich.

 

I've tried to stay out of all of this, because its the same old compostable_fertilizer from the same old people, but that phrase "comics are poor investment vehicles" is patently ridiculous, and is always brought up when this speculator *spoon* gets tossed up (again, always by the same people, some of whom have been banned from this board at least twice and keep coming back under new IDs, but that's a completely different issue).

 

Not all comics are "poor investment vehicles", just as much as not all stocks are poor investment vehicles. If you know what you're doing, and are investing money you can be OK with losing, comics are just as good a speculative investment as anything else. Do people lose their shirts "investing" in comics? Yes, they do - and people lose their shirts investing in the stock market, or in real estate, or in commodities, or in bonds. Many, many, many people do quite well, thank you, "investing" part of their money in comics. Its the same as anything else. Do your research, be an informed investor, and you'll be just fine.

 

But of course, that would be contrary to everybody's OH MY GOD THE SKY IS FALLING beliefs about how everybody is losing their shirts and everybody is going to be eating cat food and the market is being manipulated and .

 

 

FD, perhaps I was harsh in my choice of words. The point I was trying to make in the midst of the this *spoon* storm of speculator vs collector and crash of the 90's stuff that has dominated this thread was that we are forgeting that the real reason a lot of us collect comics is for fun. Yes, you can do very well with comics if you do your research and make your purchases and sales intelligently. This thread has just gotten way off track from where it had started and I was trying to remind people why we are in this hobby. So, I apologize if my poor choice of words angered you.

 

[mica]

KOR

Just for the record my big insult to you was to suggest that you've missed the boat.

 

Not exactly a tar and feathering.

 

I do hope that you at least TRIED to click on the link earlier.

 

 

[tth2]

That's an inaccurate statement, to the extreme. Speculative investments, which should only be a small part of your investment portfolio, should only be made with money you aren't afraid of losing.

 

And I agree with you there...but I think the bulk of comics speculators are not investing with money they can readily lose...and will bail at the first sign of trouble. Speculators as you describe don't pull the trigger so quickly...

Funny Jim, I would`ve figured you for a fan of social darwinism. In every herd, there are the slow and the weak who must be culled out. If there are investors who invest money they can`t afford to lose in speculative investments (comics, land, stocks, etc.), and some lose their shirts, that`s just the way things are. Some will win spectacularly (more power to them) and some will lose spectacularly. The latter are the slow and stupid members of the herd, and they`re rightfully being culled.

[iron maniac]

No....it appears that English is possibly your 4th language, and the comprehension of same is sorely lacking. I said (and you quoted me) that when you had seen it all and done it all, you can tell us what's best. Not that I had.

 

When you're solely resorting to insults...and your posts contain nothing of any substance other than that...it's time to give it up.

 

 

[mar-vell]

 

It seems that much of anyones arguement is soley based on my age. Had I kept my identity a secret as many here do, it would have made no difference. But why would I do that? I have nothing to hide. When you have no other logical point to arguement, that is the only point you bring up. I've heard it all before.

 

So, do you think because you are the age you are that you are the all knowing, and all mighty? It seems you do sometimes. You're opinion or analysis is no more valuable or less valuable then mine, or any other board member here.

 

i agree with you King that people bring up your age far too often! I would hate to see that turn into a barrier that alienates you from the rest of us-try not to let it get to you. I know it's tough because anytime you hear a reproach over and over again it gets to you because you are made to live with it... and thats wrong! We older board members should show a little more maturity and knock it off. King you are obviously a smart guy -i don't think there are too many board members that think you are unintelligent. try to keep this in mind - one thing older board members have is a lot more experience! Whether we are wise or foolish with what we have done in our lives the experiences we have been through give us much insight and hindsight about life. naturally the elder wants to instruct the younger but all too often it comes out as chastisement. This is a failure on our part! Hopefully when you reach your thirties you will look back on your life now and say "thank God i did this" or "thank God i didn't do that" and you will be happy with the decisions you have made but one thing i am certain of whether you feel you have been wise or foolish you will look back at yourself and think "boy was I green!"

[codfish]

A couple of observations:

 

KoR. There are lot of people here that were around for the speculator days and I personally know may dealers who survived it. Some dealers can be faulted for feeding it but blaming stores for the crash flies against facts. Fact is there were many people snapping up books to make a gain either immediately or down the road. Seasoned dealer or n00b dealers were only too willing to help these people get their books. That is just good business despite whether or not it is a trend the will ultimately fail or not. What is important is being able to see the signs of the trend ending. If a dealer could see the signals they survived the rest did not.

 

I personally don't have a problem with your age or anyone else's but as much as people use your age against you you use it as your defense or crutch. It is just a simple truth that you have not had enough experience in the hobby to understand or sympathize with view points that veterans have. i a am a veteran and I get annoyed with other veterans for many of their positions ... such as many in the hobby thinking that prices for certain books will always or continue to go up. When you run up against people that you disagree with though you have to try and win their respect by dissecting their POV and not by saying they are wrong or flat out disagree with them. It just leads to frustration and anger. Show them that you have listened. I know my position in this hobby and in other aspects of life have change dramatically over the years as I have gained experience. If you just blow off what people tell you you could end out making the same mistakes.

 

I admit I have done some speculating and actually not lost much money in it but it was a no-brainer. I bought many copies of Supes #75 and dumped all but two copies of each issue (for my own collection) within two weeks. I could have sat on them for a month or two but I made almost $400 in cash and trade by dumping everything early. Now I don't even think of what I "could" get for a book at all. I gave up doing that long ago because to me it doesn't matter. It is nice to get all, part or more than my money back should I ever want or have to sell a book but I never buy a book thinking what I could dump it for. I buy comics cuz I love em. I love the hunt, the read and the nostalgia

 

FD. I will not dispute that one can "invest" and make money with comics however I would personally never recommend it for the simple fact that they are not as liquid as other investments. I could dump my RRSP and have the cash in hand within a day or two but should I wish to sell my comics I would be very hard pressed to sell them all within that very same time frame. I know financial institutions here that I have talked to will have nothing to do with considering my comics as an asset. They would consider my car an asset though because that is, again, something that is much more liquid .... same as my house.

 

Labels. I don't mind the new labels actually BUT I was disappointed they dropped the letter grade. I am personally comfortable with both numeric and alpha grading schemes however, I have to admit that the numeric does not immediately bring a solid set of criteria to mind as the alpha system does. I personally do not see why we have to have one or the other and not both. Us alpha folks have and will continue to become more comfortable with the numeric but I see no need to dump a set of descriptors just for the sake of n00bs.

 

Frankly I am very disappoint with the grading definition in general as there are more and more grey areas. heck now there actually defect allowed in 10.0 Gem Mint!!! Never mind some of the grading coming out of CGC now. Our goal should be away from exceptions and into a grading standard that has solid defining border with no exceptions or excuses. "Being fair" to the book is not explaining away major defect on otherwisely nice books it is about removing doubt. The reason so many people suck at grading is because we blur the lines .... not because we use alpha or numeric designations. A true Gem Mint should be that same whether a book is brand new or 60 years old. If being this strict eliminates all Golden Age books then that is just something we will have to accept. It make those book that are higher grade all the more precious.

 

/rant

[tth2]

FD. I will not dispute that one can "invest" and make money with comics however I would personally never recommend it for the simple fact that they are not as liquid as other investments. I could dump my RRSP and have the cash in hand within a day or two but should I wish to sell my comics I would be very hard pressed to sell them all within that very same time frame. I know financial institutions here that I have talked to will have nothing to do with considering my comics as an asset. They would consider my car an asset though because that is, again, something that is much more liquid .... same as my house.

You can sell virtually any comic in 7 days, the period of a standard auction on eBay. You might not like the price you get for it, but you WILL be able to sell it. I would call that pretty liquid. On the other hand, good luck with selling a house in 7 days, even if there is quick agreement on price.

[Mike Dillon-migration]

Um...back to my original post...after reading some of the other posts that kept it on topic, it seems to be a personal choice on which label is better. Personally, I like the newer labels since they seem to be much more appealing to me and easier to read. However, it's like someone said some odd pages ago, if a book comes up that I really want, I guess I can't too choosy.

 

With that said...I'll let y'all get back to your friendly discussion between Speculator vs Collector.

[codfish]

You can sell virtually any comic in 7 days, the period of a standard auction on eBay. You might not like the price you get for it, but you WILL be able to sell it. I would call that pretty liquid. On the other hand, good luck with selling a house in 7 days, even if there is quick agreement on price.

 

That's pretty optimistic. A house is taken as a asset because a financial institution can get a good solid price and in one fell swoop. Find me a financial institution or individual that would be willing and able to liquidate an entire collect and try to get book value for it in the same period of time.

 

Like I said someone can make money "investing" in comics but it is almost always much too high risk than many "regular" investing schemes. I would much sooner place my money in a RSP or RRSP or any other investing portfolio and that also what I would suggest to any one contemplating "investing" in comics.

[awe4one]

Funny Jim, I would`ve figured you for a fan of social darwinism. In every herd, there are the slow and the weak who must be culled out. If there are investors who invest money they can`t afford to lose in speculative investments (comics, land, stocks, etc.), and some lose their shirts, that`s just the way things are. Some will win spectacularly (more power to them) and some will lose spectacularly. The latter are the slow and stupid members of the herd, and they`re rightfully being culled.

 

I contend the slow and stupid greatly outnumber the smart. And their stupidity and lack of resolve not to overreact will harm the hobby to such an extent to damage the value of the assets held by the smart...

 

The secret is the really smarter ones know this a cyclic event and know when to cash in before the stupid attempt to think for themselves...

 

Jim

[Wilson-migration]

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mr. Zipper]

BSD 1 'Hey, how do we get more money across the counters from fat-walleted geeks looking for a killing?'

 

BSD 2 'Big numbers, man! Get rid of all the alphabet and just give 'em big numbers! They love big numbers!

 

B I N G O!

 

The removal of the old style grading nomenclature was all about marketing.

 

1 - The BSDs wanted numbers because it made it easier for specu-investors to understand and gobble up.

 

2 - The BSDs wanted to remove any negative connotations from the slabs. A 9.2 seems so much more investment worthy than a Near Mint MINUS. Who wants to invest in something that is a minus.

 

And what the BSDs want, they usually get.

[codfish]

It stopped being about the books ... uh .. from the start.

[trevorlsmith]

 

 

 

 

 

Good point!!!

[Aman619]

I wondered about that too! strong silent type! the avatar is perfect.

[otherworldsj33]

New label. old label--Meet the new boss, same as the old boss...

[tth2]

New label. old label--Meet the new boss, same as the old boss...

Well, no. Hence all the discussion in this thread (flame war aside).