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Restored or Unrestored?

27 posts in this topic

So I am thinking about trying to save for a Batman #1. Even though I don't advocate investing in comics, let's face it - Batman #1 will be a major investment financially as well as emotionally. That said, I want something that will have great eye appeal and still have room for price appreciation - or at the very least principal protection.

 

I would imagine that a Batman #1 in unrestored 2.0 would cost about the same as a Batman #1 in restored 8.0. Now, of course the type of restoration will play a big part, but what do you think would make a better investment? It seems that a restored book can't go any lower, but then again I guess I am not sure why there is such a stigma to restored books now. Wouldn't it make sense to try and preserve one's books? I think that if you had a unrestored 2.0 and you had a restored 2.0 that went to a 6.0 that you would want to pay a premium to the unrestored 2.0 price, but I don't really know enough about resto and the buyers of resto books to make an argument or draw a conclusion.

 

I'm starting to ramble here, so let me leave it at that - if you were me, what would you do keeping in mind the emotional appeal of having a nice copu to look at coupled with the huge cost (investment) that a Batman #1 would be?

 

Thoughts?

 

Thanks! smile.gif

 

DAM

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Buy the 2.0 and then upgrade as you can afford it....somehow I don't think the restored book will increase in value in the same rate as the unrestored book...

 

J.D.

 

At the depressed prices for restored books we're seeing right now? I respectfully disagree. I think we're in a negative reactionary period for pricing on restored books because of the advent of CGC. To me the prices paid right now are overly depressed. As long as you buy smartly (avoid trimmed books, shoddy work,etc.) I think within five years you will end up seeing a bump based solely on a newfound re-acceptance of restored books.

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At the depressed prices for restored books we're seeing right now? I respectfully disagree. I think we're in a negative reactionary period for pricing on restored books because of the advent of CGC. To me the prices paid right now are overly depressed. As long as you buy smartly (avoid trimmed books, shoddy work,etc.) I think within five years you will end up seeing a bump based solely on a newfound re-acceptance of restored books.

 

I agree with Rob. If eye-appeal is important to you DAM, then you probably have a historic opportunity to buy a restored book at relatively low prices. Just be aware the Golden Age market is probably more forgiving (read higher demand & higher prices) of restoration than Silver Age. Like Rob, I feel the current restoration paranoia is the result of the pent-up frustration due to a perceived windfall of hidden-undisclosed-restoration (primarily Silver Age trim-jobs & color touch for Marvel chipping & the like). Add to this the older Golden Age paper and likely poorer storage environments, and I'd bet you'll see a move within the next decade to advocate some level of restoration/preservation of these 50+ year old treasures.

 

Cheers,

Z.

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I totally agree that restored books are getting bashed unfairly right now...and for eye appeal you can't beat them price wise ...however IMO the future of their value for investment purposes certainly carries more risk than an unrestored book, especially a key golden book like Batman #1.....which certainly has not lost value in the last 10 years even at a 2.0 grade...can we say that for restored books??..... ...maybe yes...maybe no......nobody knows....At least the 2.0 you could flip in a year or two and still make some money on...it's not going to deteriorate that much in two years, plus, if it's slabbed no one could tell unless they had it regraded. Are you going to resubmit it before you sell it?...certainly not.

 

This is the argument we get into over and over on this forum and it's always and it's all a matter of opinion...you have to ask yourself what is your main objective...if its a great looking book to complete your collection that you are going to keep for a long time...than by all means buy the restored book...never a better time than now.....but if your not planning on holding it for more than a few years the unrestored is a much safer bet.

 

J.D. goodevil.gif

 

 

 

 

 

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Assuming you want a book that is worth looking at, you almost have no choice but to buy the restored copy. While a complentionist would love to have a copy in any grade, if you are a person who enjoys looking at the cover, I think you will be seriously dissappointed in a 2.0.

 

I'm not saying which one is a better long-term investment, I'm just saying if you normally collect high grade books, its tough to buy low grade (tried myself and gave up).

flamed.gif

 

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DAM.....I found out recently about a restored Detective #27. One of my holy grails. It is a 9.2 and I seriously was considering purchasing it but unfortunately somebody got in before me. Now it went for 40k. I don't know what a POS 2.0 would go for but if it was the same then give me the 9.2 and let me show it off.

 

 

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Perhaps you can buy a G real cheap and then get it restored to higher than 8.0? Cost might be the same or even cheaper and you can decide what you DO or DON'T want done to the book.

Meant to add... maybe you can find a G copy with slight amatuer restoration for cheap? Then have the restored book restored to higher grade like 8.0-8.5, you'd of course have to get the right book with the right defects though that can be fixed.

 

Brian

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Thanks for all the great responses thus far! grin.gif

 

I would add that I would keep the book for the foreseeable future (ie at least 5 years) but if the opportunity presented itself where I could buy a unrestored copy in F or better I would go for that and would sell the restored one to raise funds.

 

Also, it would probably take me 2 years at least to save for this, so I am not making any decisions immediately . . .

 

893scratchchin-thumb.gif

 

DAM

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Aggree with Rob & Zonker. Just want to add that _slightly_ restored books IMO are far more undervalued right now than moderate and extensively restored ones. CGC's purple label caused a huge, artificial divergence between prices of "restored" and "unrestored" books. Books with slight color touch or minor tear seals suffered much more from this development than heavily rebuilt ones with piece replacement, extensive CT, ... Eventually, as collectors start to understand restoration better, there is going to be a correction. To me, the critical observation is that not all restored books are going to go up in value. The area that has been hit hardest by CGC is high quality books with almost no work done on them; the correction is going to affect these far more than VG books that have been rebuilt to VF.

 

So, to answer your question, I would buy a slightly restored high grade #1, preferably a pedigree with almost invisible color touch. For example, the Church Adventure #40 in the upcoming Heritage auction is ridiculously undervalued IMO.

 

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I would totally go with a high grade restored copy, especially considering how "shunned" Purple label books are. I totally disagree with the price structuring difference with golden age restored vs. unrestored. So, let's think about something. Say you had a Batman #1 unrestored VF 8.0. Not slabbed. One day you decide to read it, and the top or bottom or the spine splits completely to the nearest staple. What are you going to do now? If you're extremely wealthly, you unload it and get another high grade copy. If you're me, you'd have gotten a restored high grade for 1/10 the normal price, and send it to a restorer to get the spine repaired.

 

Let's be honest; the difference in restored and unrestored could be as simple as a very minor color touch or piece of archival tape to seal a tear. I faced the same dilemna when I was going to purchase a Jackpot Comics #4 - a low grade "very good" with peices missing was around $1000 (unrestored), but I found a restored VF for $1000. I bought the restored copy, and I don't worry about it when I sit down to read it, either. It's already had work done, so there is no proverbial "cherry" to pop any longer.

 

 

I will say this is my opinion for golden age stuff; for silver/bronze/modern I'd say stick around and find a nice unrestored due to how common they are.

 

Take Pep Comics #22 for example. I've seen only 3 copies on EBAY since 2000, and Heritage has never listed one. That's why a VG copy will cost you $3000 to $5000 bucks!

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For golden age, my inclination is that a restored book may be worth buying, especially something like Batman #1. When (or if) I ever get the $$$$ to buy one, I'll probably end up with a restored copy also just for the eye appeal.

 

I agree that the stigma about restored books may pass eventually. I'm reluctant to give a blanket statement as the whether or not restored books are going to get overall acceptance. I think you have to judge each book individually. A restored Batman #1 is very different from a restoried Hulk 181.

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I'm interested in a restored book that says "cleaned and pressed, cover reinforced".

 

Does anyone know what cover reinforced means exactly?

 

 

The spine may have been loose and they added some rice paper to the staple area inside the cover. This would stablize the cover and seal the loose areas. I could be wrong though.

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I'm interested in a restored book that says "cleaned and pressed, cover reinforced".

 

Does anyone know what cover reinforced means exactly?

 

 

It means the cover was to some degree loose in the area of the staples. Small tears maybe have been repaired to reinforce how the cover attaches to the book and staples. I'm sure there are many people out there who know more about this process than I do.

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Thanks guys.

 

I am looking at the Hulk #1 in CGC VF Slight Restoration. The seller states that the book has been cleaned and pressed. The actual label says cleaned and pressed and cover reinforced.

 

If it was only cleaned and pressed, I would pay more. But, since the consensus seems to be that something has been added to book, I'm not sure how much to pay.

 

Any guess what to pay?

 

 

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The tide may already be turning on restored books. The Sensation I sold on Sunday had a staple replaced -- obvious amateur restoration. It was not slabbed, so there was no purple label, but there was full disclosure in the auction about the staple. The book was probably around a VG, but it went for close to VF guide with disclosed restoration! I've sold a bunch of unrestored books that didn't do anywhere near that well. Basically, it sold on eye appeal.

 

I think you should stop thinking about investment or grades or restoration, and just start looking at Batman 1's. When you see the book you want, at a price you can afford, buy it, whatever it's grade or restoration status. Just buy the book you want to own, and consider the money spent. At least that way you're not attempting to predict the future, you are simply buying a comic that appeals to you. This should leave you without regrets, and let the future take care of itself. The chances are high that if the book appealed to you, it will appeal to someone else down the road. That's what happened to me with the Sensation. I thought it was gorgeous, and didn't care about the flaws that brought it down in grade. I paid $55 for it. It sold for $222.50.

 

-- Joanna

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I think you should stop thinking about investment or grades or restoration, and just start looking at Batman 1's. When you see the book you want, at a price you can afford, buy it, whatever it's grade or restoration status. Just buy the book you want to own, and consider the money spent. At least that way you're not attempting to predict the future, you are simply buying a comic that appeals to you. This should leave you without regrets, and let the future take care of itself. The chances are high that if the book appealed to you, it will appeal to someone else down the road. That's what happened to me with the Sensation. I thought it was gorgeous, and didn't care about the flaws that brought it down in grade. I paid $55 for it. It sold for $222.50.

 

-- Joanna

 

Well said Joanna. I just purchased a DD 1 with restoration. It was probably a VG+ before someone touched it up. It looks great (VF+) and you have to look VERY hard to see the restoration. You know what... I am pretty happy with it. Cost me $275. Its an upgrade from a fair copy. I'm keeping it until i upgrade again...

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