KILLER FF # 12 cgc 9.2!!!!!

[clobberintime]

Thanks for the further update and advice on how I should post here. If you take the time to read back thru the posts, all anyone was talking about was California and how they had this law. I had no idea any others states had similar vague and poorly enacted legislation. That is my opinion. Post after post went on about California like the laws there set the agenda for the rest of the country. If the purpose of that law is to protect consumers, it obviously fails as it is easy to circumvent and the seller is the one who eats the fee unless it is calculated into the sales price and passed to the consumer one way or another. Is thaT so difficult to fathom? But the next time I post on some momentous legal issue here, I will be glad to run it by you first.

[Foolkiller]

clobberintime:

 

I'm not going to hijack this thread so you and i can have this pointless spat.

 

Here's my last post on the matter:

 

you ought to reread what YOU wrote:

 

Whoopy to do - California has a law against it! Sounds like the paypal lobbyists are in good with the legislators there. Who cares. As far as I know the other 49 states and assorted other nations don't have such laws.

 

 

you asserted (and because of your position as an attorney it's supposedly more credible) that the other 49 states don't have the same sort of laws as CA. Now that strikes me as more than just your opinion but rather like you know it to be true and then 4 seconds later Donut has 12 states... no one's saying (and i didn't either) that you had to be perfect and with your ultra aggressive attitude, I can see why people are turned off... but hey, next time I need to see how not to conduct myself in my professional career, I'll be sure to think back to your incredibly poor attitude posts. And numbskull, I was originally trying to give my gut reaction but explain to everyone why just because you're a lawyer shouldn't mean that you should know all the answers to legal stuff and inferring that maybe people shouldn't be jumping on you so quick... but oh well... So take your last shots and let's be done with it.

[FlyingDonut]

If seller sends you a money order, the 100 dollars you SHOULD be getting for the book would remain the same. Noone is forcing people to pay by C.C.

 

Brian

 

True, but in the last 100 or so sales I've done, maybe 3 haven't been by Paypal. That's just the way things are moving.

[clobberintime]

No where in my very short response did I mention that I am an attorney or that this was my professional legal opinion so shove your overwrought opinions up your legal briefs. A lot of people know me around here as I have done business with most of them and they receive cashiers checks from me with stationary with my office address. I never came on here and said "hi I am mr. lawyer and i will provide legal opinions for you." In fact i think it was disclosed by another forum member that I use to have a lot of fights with - meth, hammer, comic-keys etc ( who is apparently in jail or exploded in a roid rage) that I am an attorney. So, the statement I made about the paypal stuff was my opinion as a collector and consumer. Had no idea other states have this same STUPID law and could care less. I don't use paypal, and the law obviously does not serve the purpose for which it was designed. Finally, you are the one who went out of the way to bring up lawyer stuff - so i n the future keep your nose out of my business. You posted here in response to my comment and not the thread topic. I can do the same if you would like me to critique your future posts. Now it is late and must get to bed as I have a long day in court tomorrow and must do well so I can pay for that Hulk 1 I just won.

[Warlord]

I can't believe ANYONE buys with anything else BUT a credit card for the protection the credit cards offer. I guess people need to get burned a couple of times before they realize how powerful c.c.'s are (I have been burned).

 

I won't even look at an auction that doesn't accept the credit card/paypal.

 

And I have no doubt that the bigger auction closing prices more than offset the 3% fee. Why are we talking about this? 3% is paid as a covenience expense for the seller, but I am sure that the seller makes more than 3% in allowing for that convenience/protection. (I am assuming for the sales more than $200).

 

 

You can get some pretty significant protection from the USPS by sending a check or MO payment through the mail. If someone tries to rip you off using the mail, the USPS will weigh in on your side. If a seller rips off multiple folks who pay through the mail, they are gonna get stomped by the USPS unless they find a really deep hole to crawl into and pull a big rock over the top to try to hide.

 

[murph0]

Without a doubt, you have many options with a money order as well. I don't know about EVERY single institution but most of the ones I've come across have good M/O tracking capabilities, as well as a pretty good insurance policy regarding fraud.

 

Brian

[fantastic_four]

You can get some pretty significant protection from the USPS by sending a check or MO payment through the mail. If someone tries to rip you off using the mail, the USPS will weigh in on your side. If a seller rips off multiple folks who pay through the mail, they are gonna get stomped by the USPS unless they find a really deep hole to crawl into and pull a big rock over the top to try to hide.

 

Has anybody actually filed a fraud complaint with the USPS? I would imagine there's too much fraud for them to deal with it all since the Internet has blown up the order-by-mail business.

[Warlord]

You can get some pretty significant protection from the USPS by sending a check or MO payment through the mail. If someone tries to rip you off using the mail, the USPS will weigh in on your side. If a seller rips off multiple folks who pay through the mail, they are gonna get stomped by the USPS unless they find a really deep hole to crawl into and pull a big rock over the top to try to hide.

 

Has anybody actually filed a fraud complaint with the USPS? I would imagine there's too much fraud for them to deal with it all since the Internet has blown up the order-by-mail business.

 

Ages ago, back when I was trying to (finally) get a copy of X-Men #94 I ordered one in NM from some seller in CBG. For $40, although that seemed pricey at the time! Just some ordinary Joe I guess. I got zilch. Filed a complaint with the USPS and they investigated. Perhaps fortunately for me there were a number of other buyers who filed similar complaints as I was told by the USPS. Still, I wish the comic had arrived since all I subsequently came up with was a POS copy.

 

Don't know what leverage they used exactly, but I finally got reimbursed -- guy sent me $5/week until I was paid back.

 

These days, you are right there's probably a whole lot more person-to-person dealing going on through the mail that could fall under the USPS jurisdiction for mail fraud issues. I would not expect that any complaints are taken lightly, but I really couldn't say what level of enforcement is possible in the current environment.

 

I wouldn't rish any shady deals involving the US mail though.

[Proverbs22_2]

Paypal, to my humble knowledge, is not an issuer of Credit Cards, so it would seem to me that it would fall outside of the now-infamous "California Credit-Card Laws".

What Paypal is, is yet ONE MORE WAY for the E-bay beancounters to get in your pocket ONE MORE TIME on the same transaction.

 

1) You pay to LIST the item (Whether is sells or not...).

 

2) You pay to SELL said item (an escalating fee...).

 

3) You pay to GET PAID for selling said item ( another escalating fee...)!

 

Remember, THEIR kids need braces, too!

 

[uclapeterg]

Please remember that Paypal was only recently acquired by Ebay.

 

Also, on the money order thing, I tried contacting A USPS representive about a money order in which I didn't receive the comic and he wanted to argue with me that it didn't fall within their juristiction(sp?). I'm not saying he was right, but ever since then, I don't like to send "money" through the mail for purchsases more than $50.

 

Also, let's "blow up" the $40 example to $4,000. Not everyone has $4,000 just sitting around and are patient and/or have enough money to cover the wait by USPS if what you are saying is true.

 

Finally, has anyone heard about the credit cards suing Paypal? I haven't heard much about it recently.

[fantastic_four]

Finally, has anyone heard about the credit cards suing Paypal? I haven't heard much about it recently.

 

No, when did they do this, any idea? A suit like that would probably take years.

[Rip]

I just ran in to this very problem. I just won an auction and the seller stated that if I wanted to use paypal I had to add 3% more to the cost. Its only $3.60, however I'm really angry. A personal check would take two weeks to clear.

So it looks like I'll pay with a money order.

What a pain in the !!!!

[Rip]

Spoke to the guy said he wouldn't charge for paypal. And he knocked off a little of the price of the book. He's was really nice guy!!

[MrNice-migration]

Rip, From my understanding, the PayPal charge is to the seller. A consideration, much like a merchant fee being charged to a seller who accepts credit cards himself with a swipe machine.

 

By setting up this merchant's account that allows a vendor to accept credit cards, he is accepting this charge as part of the price of doing business and receiving payment.

 

PayPal is basically the same thing. A vendor account (when you sell) that allows you to accept credit cards of buyers through their system, without the hassle of having to acquire a business certificate or open up a separate banking business account.

 

To attempt passing this fee, collected by PayPal from a seller to make immediate transfer of funds possible, on to the buyer is ridiculous. When a seller chooses to accept payment by PayPal, he should know that he will be shouldering the burden of whatever percentage the charge will be for the service.

[harveyfan323]

Paypal, to my humble knowledge, is not an issuer of Credit Cards, so it would seem to me that it would fall outside of the now-infamous "California Credit-Card Laws".

 

Well, I do have a Paypal Mastercard, but I doubt they are the official "issuer" of it, and the Paypal service, per se, is not strictly a credit card service.

 

When I sell items on Ebay, I simply don't accept Paypal when a credit card is used as the source of the funds. If they want to pay with a credit card, I have them pay with c2it or Bidpay. So I still accept Paypal and can advertise that in the auction, but if someone insists on paying with a credit card, I steer them to the other two services. Those 3% charges do add up quickly if you accept cc funded Paypal payments and I don't blame sellers for avoiding them if they do so in a fairly straightforward manner.

[joe_collector]

So I still accept Paypal and can advertise that in the auction, but if someone insists on paying with a credit card, I steer them to the other two services.

 

This is assuming you're talking about a text message in the description and NOT ticking the actual Payal payment accepted box, and having the Credit Card icons at the bottom of each auction?

[harveyfan323]

Exactly, I do not choose Paypal on the ebay listing form as a payment option, and instead just mention it in my auction text and put the Paypal logo below. So I don't mislead people that I accept CC payments through Paypal. Clearly having the CC logos and the Paypal logo together would be misleading, so I never do that.