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I REALLY WANT THE SUSPENSE #3, BUT MY WIFE WILL KILL ME!

198 posts in this topic

I don't think you'll get a debate on that one, because there is no debate. Schomburg was great, but Fine was greater.

 

Fine may have been the superior draftsman, but I prefer Schomburg for GA covers.

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Interestingly enough, issues #1 and #8 (the spider cover) qualify in the very tiny subset of comics that have quite a few slabbed but very few sold. Other comics in that subset include All-American #61, Action #13, Sub-Mariner #13, and Wonder Comics #1 (Fox). I find that subset to include some of the most highly collectible of all comics, because it implies people refuse to let their copies go no matter what the price.

 

Win;

 

Now that's a very interesting subset of 6 books which you have identified for us on the boards here. thumbsup2.gif

 

All six are highly collectible books with great covers that are just so very tough to find in grade. Very interesting and highly informative and also means that I have to add another book to my want list.

 

Greatly appreciate your analysis of some of the numbers behind your Windex Scarcity Index. 893applaud-thumb.gif

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Interestingly enough, issues #1 and #8 (the spider cover) qualify in the very tiny subset of comics that have quite a few slabbed but very few sold. Other comics in that subset include All-American #61, Action #13, Sub-Mariner #13, and Wonder Comics #1 (Fox). I find that subset to include some of the most highly collectible of all comics, because it implies people refuse to let their copies go no matter what the price.

 

Win;

 

Now that's a very interesting subset of 6 books which you have identified for us on the boards here. thumbsup2.gif

 

All six are highly collectible books with great covers that are just so very tough to find in grade. Very interesting and highly informative and also means that I have to add another book to my want list.

 

Greatly appreciate your analysis of some of the numbers behind your Windex Scarcity Index. 893applaud-thumb.gif

 

It doesn't necessarily mean that they don't let them go, just that the buyer may already have been in line. The collector could sell to someone that he already knows wants the book. Alternatively, he could sell to a dealer who already knows who to pass the book on to without going through one of the venues that get reported in the press or on GPA.

 

This alternative interpretation doesn't dispute the main point about the popularity of the comic.

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Interestingly enough, issues #1 and #8 (the spider cover) qualify in the very tiny subset of comics that have quite a few slabbed but very few sold. Other comics in that subset include All-American #61, Action #13, Sub-Mariner #13, and Wonder Comics #1 (Fox). I find that subset to include some of the most highly collectible of all comics, because it implies people refuse to let their copies go no matter what the price.

 

Win;

 

Now that's a very interesting subset of 6 books which you have identified for us on the boards here. thumbsup2.gif

 

All six are highly collectible books with great covers that are just so very tough to find in grade. Very interesting and highly informative and also means that I have to add another book to my want list.

 

Greatly appreciate your analysis of some of the numbers behind your Windex Scarcity Index. 893applaud-thumb.gif

 

It doesn't necessarily mean that they don't let them go, just that the buyer may already have been in line. The collector could sell to someone that he already knows wants the book. Alternatively, he could sell to a dealer who already knows who to pass the book on to without going through one of the venues that get reported in the press or on GPA.

 

This alternative interpretation doesn't dispute the main point about the popularity of the comic.

 

I'm 100% sure that sales happen all the time which aren't captured through public venues. But having complied scarcity data on over 800 comics so far, I've definitely spotted some trends. And one is that, on average, 135% of all unrestored slabbed copies in the census have "turned over" on Heritage, Metro, and ComicLink over the past 5 years. In other words, if a book has 10 slabbed copies in the census, I'd expect (all things being equal) to see 13-14 sales data points (not all of which are of slabbed or unrestored copies, just counting sales data points in general as compared to the census baseline).

 

In that very tiny subset of books I listed above, the average number of sales per 10 census copies was under 2. That's just minuscule, a mere 13% of what I'd expect to see, and highly unlikely to be due to chance. That means there's something special about those books.

 

Examining them more closely, we find that they represent some of the very coolest covers of the Golden Age. Now, it might be that those super cool books don't make it to auction because people sell them off-line instead at 7x the frequency of the average book. Or it may be that people don't sell their copies at all. It may be self-fulfilling in that the fewer sales of a cool book you see, the more likely you want to keep your copy. (The opposite of this way of thinking could explain the occasional flood of what was previously thought of as super rare books, like 'Tec 35 and Suspense 3 recently). It's probably a combination of all those factors. But it definitely affects the data in an huge way.

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Interestingly enough, issues #1 and #8 (the spider cover) qualify in the very tiny subset of comics that have quite a few slabbed but very few sold. Other comics in that subset include All-American #61, Action #13, Sub-Mariner #13, and Wonder Comics #1 (Fox). I find that subset to include some of the most highly collectible of all comics, because it implies people refuse to let their copies go no matter what the price.

 

Win;

 

Now that's a very interesting subset of 6 books which you have identified for us on the boards here. thumbsup2.gif

 

All six are highly collectible books with great covers that are just so very tough to find in grade. Very interesting and highly informative and also means that I have to add another book to my want list.

 

Greatly appreciate your analysis of some of the numbers behind your Windex Scarcity Index. 893applaud-thumb.gif

 

It doesn't necessarily mean that they don't let them go, just that the buyer may already have been in line. The collector could sell to someone that he already knows wants the book. Alternatively, he could sell to a dealer who already knows who to pass the book on to without going through one of the venues that get reported in the press or on GPA.

 

This alternative interpretation doesn't dispute the main point about the popularity of the comic.

 

I'm 100% sure that sales happen all the time which aren't captured through public venues. But having complied scarcity data on over 800 comics so far, I've definitely spotted some trends. And one is that, on average, 135% of all unrestored slabbed copies in the census have "turned over" on Heritage, Metro, and ComicLink over the past 5 years. In other words, if a book has 10 slabbed copies in the census, I'd expect (all things being equal) to see 13-14 sales data points (not all of which are of slabbed or unrestored copies, just counting sales data points in general as compared to the census baseline).

 

In that very tiny subset of books I listed above, the average number of sales per 10 census copies was under 2. That's just minuscule, a mere 13% of what I'd expect to see, and highly unlikely to be due to chance. That means there's something special about those books.

 

Examining them more closely, we find that they represent some of the very coolest covers of the Golden Age. Now, it might be that those super cool books don't make it to auction because people sell them off-line instead at 7x the frequency of the average book. Or it may be that people don't sell their copies at all. It may be self-fulfilling in that the fewer sales of a cool book you see, the more likely you want to keep your copy. (The opposite of this way of thinking could explain the occasional flood of what was previously thought of as super rare books, like 'Tec 35 and Suspense 3 recently). It's probably a combination of all those factors. But it definitely affects the data in an huge way.

 

Terrific followup post. The disparity in turn-over is so remarkable that something different must be going on with those books.

 

My reason for thinking that sales are occurring is that I don't know how many folks spend the money to get books slabbed until they get close to the point to selling it. My supposition is that majority of those with copies of those slabbing their books did so just prior to selling, hence I believe sales occur quickly, privately. If, on the hand, people slabbed for personal pleasure then your theory would be the more correct one. I'm sure it's a mix of both -- perhaps some type of collector poll or dealer query would provide us with enough data to make reasonable guess.

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Whenever I read about Suspence # 3 it's what a incredible cover it is, and it is a incredible cover & scarce to boot. I love it like everybody else . But, & I mean but , Fantastic Comics # 3 is a better cover over all IMO !! smile.gif& just as scarce , ask Steve Fishler. Then again I'm biased as I have one . & it is my Fave Golden Age cover.. Schomburg was great & I collect him , but nobody was better then Lou Fine for covers IMO. Let the debate commence. It's just my opinion.

 

scan.jpg

 

I think Suspense 3 and Fantastic 3 are nice covers, but I'm not gaga over them like a lot of people seem to be. I'd certainly like to own them, but at current market I've taken them off my list as I don't personally feel them to be worth what they command.

 

These are also 2 books that have a (at least partially) falsely manufactured market. The Suspense 3 was unheard of until Gerber put it as the frontispiece of the PJs and hyped it. The Fantastic 3 was tough, but they came around a bit until someone decided to corner the market, thereby skewing the supply-demand ratio.

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Whenever I read about Suspence # 3 it's what a incredible cover it is, and it is a incredible cover & scarce to boot. I love it like everybody else . But, & I mean but , Fantastic Comics # 3 is a better cover over all IMO !! smile.gif& just as scarce , ask Steve Fishler. Then again I'm biased as I have one . & it is my Fave Golden Age cover.. Schomburg was great & I collect him , but nobody was better then Lou Fine for covers IMO. Let the debate commence. It's just my opinion.

 

scan.jpg

 

I think Suspense 3 and Fantastic 3 are nice covers, but I'm not gaga over them like a lot of people seem to be. I'd certainly like to own them, but at current market I've taken them off my list as I don't personally feel them to be worth what they command.

 

These are also 2 books that have a (at least partially) falsely manufactured market. The Suspense 3 was unheard of until Gerber put it as the frontispiece of the PJs and hyped it. The Fantastic 3 was tough, but they came around a bit until someone decided to corner the market, thereby skewing the supply-demand ratio.

 

I agree with a lot of what you've written and of course one of the things that turns me off (besides overgrading) is market manipulation. I've never liked the cover to Fantastic 3 all that much,personal taste, but I've loved Suspense 3's cover. Had Gerber's books not been published, I think these boards would have started a stampede as soon as someone posted a nice, mid to high grade copy.

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I prefer Schomburg over Fine, but I would probably take Raboy over both of them.

893applaud-thumb.gif on the Raboy part.

 

I would take about 672 GA artists over Schomburg.

 

Just wait until the Timely collectors get a hold of you. boo.gif

 

Thats good, cause it leaves more for the rest of us, and there is of course no accounting for good taste.

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Suspense 3 is one of the most iconic (and lurid) GA covers out there. It is SUPER hard to find with the insert that this issue had. Plus it looked better than one that just went for bucks not too long ago at Heritage. It's a grail book for a lot of folks.

 

I know a lot of collectors do like the cover...but it never did anything for me. The cover just looks like an average GA cover in my opinion. confused-smiley-013.gif

 

It is a true GA classic cover GRAIL.......but the beauty of our hobby is the different likes and dislikes from collector to collector. If we all liked the same book, it sure would be expensive!!!

 

Showcase-4;

 

I agree with you that this is a really nice cover.

 

But as I have stated before in the past, this cover would be even more spectacular if the cover design was more original. It appears to be a more refined and polished version of the cover image that appears on Suspense Comics #1. 893whatthe.gif

 

I'll probably get some flak for this, but just look at the placement of the hero, the overhead moon in the background, the villians, and the damsel in distress. Similar design, except that one cover is probably better drafted than the other one. 893scratchchin-thumb.gif

 

I don't think the similarity between Suspense 1 and 3 is of significant enough to have the impact that you're suggesting. Just my 2 cents.

 

I've suggested a link between the two in the past. I'm not sure that there's any evidence for it, but when you look at Suspense 3 and All New 8 - which is essentially the same cover, but with superheroes and came out at the same time as Suspense 3 - it suggests that something prompted Schomburg to go with that theme.

 

BTW, if anyone has a nice mid-grade All New 8, I'm interested poke2.gif

 

I think the All New 8 is a much closer design to Suspense 3 than the Suspense 1, but it still doesn't matter much to me. By analogy, I've been to quite a few art museums and have seen works from varying stages in artist's career. I don't discount the masterpiece because it was close in style or composition to the earlier piece -- that's just the normal development process of an artists and I evaluate work on its own merits.

 

 

do not mean to be unduly boring but here is a short column i did on All New 8 and Suspense 3 for CBM. Clearly, the story in the book was inspired by one of those covers

 

PROTOTYPE OR RE-TREAD?

 

Click.

The last issue of CBM spotlighted the run of Suspense Comics, and particularly the third issue with the classic Schomburg cover. Other than the postage size reproduction in the Gerber Photo-Journal and occasionally viewing the book from afar at infrequently attended comicbook conventions, I had never had an opportunity to view the third issue with any degree of care until it was reproduced in the color gallery of CBM 30. After looking at it a bit, it seemed oddly familiar, as if I had seen it in some other form.

Click.

I pulled out a copy of All-New Comics 8. There it was. Another Schomburg cover. As viewed, there was a bound blond threatened by an upturned sword. Both issues have the woman surrounded by monstrous Nazis, some hooded in Klu Klux Klan fashion. Both impending executions are set in a tropical locale surrounded by raised walls or land with desperate rescues in sight. In one, a Nazi shoots a revolver from the lower right to the upper left while in the other the shot starts from the lower left and goes to the upper right. Instead of the spear set to be flung from up above in Suspense 3, there is a machine gun firing down into the scene of impending mayhem. Of course, the All-New cover prominently features the “Red Blazer” and the “Boy Heroes”, the title’s resident heroes. However, the overall composition and feel of each cover are obviously similar. Mere coincidence?

Click.

Suspense 3 has an April 1944 cover date while All-New 8 has a cover date of May 1944- only one month apart! Logic would dictate that Schomburg had to have created these covers in close temporal proximity to one another. Commencing with issue 6, All-New’s prior sporadic output went on an every other month schedule. One could hypothesize that the owner of the title would want to insure a regular schedule by having several issues already prepared. The first Schomburg cover was with the seventh issue. Could Schomburg have created the cover for issue 8 well in advance of its scheduled release? Is it possible that the cover to number 8 was the prototype/inspiration for one of the classic comicbook covers of all time? Is it possible that the cover to issue 8 was created before Suspense 3?

Click.

All-New Comics contained a text feature that was entitled “The Story Behind the Cover”. The text would then relate a short story. The cover to a particular issue illustrated a dramatic moment from that story. Obviously the text piece and cover in issue 8 involved the comic characters of that title. Succinctly, the story in All-New 8 involved the abduction and planned execution by Nazis of the daughter of the French commander in North Africa. However, these plot elements apply with equal force to the cover of Suspense 3 as demonstrated by the following abbreviated excerpt from All-New 8:

 

Marianna Le Clair was of that startling beauty which

made all stop to stare...Yes, she was a famous general’s

daughter. The General was...[the French] commander of Camel Corps..[in] North Africa. [As she strolled through a bazaar] ...on hot sultry day...a dirty rough hand..went across her mouth... a sharp blow struck her temple....and she lost all

consciousness....

 

A shrill woman’s cry stabbed the sultry air ...

[T]russed by heavy rope, lying limp and helpless was pretty

Marianna....Over her hovered devilishly fantastic creatures,

garbed in weird costumes. To a side, a fiendish-face Nazi..

squatted. In the center of the piazza a ...man stood

raising a wicked short sword....

 

The cover to Suspense 3 had no relationship to the content of that comicbook. It may be stated that while this cover represents the ultimate “refinement” of the cover/concept of All-New 8, it is, nonetheless, a refinement. Clearly, the text piece of All-New 8 easily reflects the scene depicted on Suspense 3. Is the cover to All-New 8 the prototype for the cover to Suspense 3? Is the text piece of All-New 8 the inspiration for the cover of Suspense 3? You be the judge.

Click.

JSB 1996

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do not mean to be unduly boring but here is a short column i did on All New 8 and Suspense 3 for CBM. Clearly, the story in the book was inspired by one of those covers

 

PROTOTYPE OR RE-TREAD?

 

Click.

The last issue of CBM spotlighted the run of Suspense Comics, and particularly the third issue with the classic Schomburg cover. Other than the postage size reproduction in the Gerber Photo-Journal and occasionally viewing the book from afar at infrequently attended comicbook conventions, I had never had an opportunity to view the third issue with any degree of care until it was reproduced in the color gallery of CBM 30. After looking at it a bit, it seemed oddly familiar, as if I had seen it in some other form.

Click.

I pulled out a copy of All-New Comics 8. There it was. Another Schomburg cover. As viewed, there was a bound blond threatened by an upturned sword. Both issues have the woman surrounded by monstrous Nazis, some hooded in Klu Klux Klan fashion. Both impending executions are set in a tropical locale surrounded by raised walls or land with desperate rescues in sight. In one, a Nazi shoots a revolver from the lower right to the upper left while in the other the shot starts from the lower left and goes to the upper right. Instead of the spear set to be flung from up above in Suspense 3, there is a machine gun firing down into the scene of impending mayhem. Of course, the All-New cover prominently features the “Red Blazer” and the “Boy Heroes”, the title’s resident heroes. However, the overall composition and feel of each cover are obviously similar. Mere coincidence?

Click.

Suspense 3 has an April 1944 cover date while All-New 8 has a cover date of May 1944- only one month apart! Logic would dictate that Schomburg had to have created these covers in close temporal proximity to one another. Commencing with issue 6, All-New’s prior sporadic output went on an every other month schedule. One could hypothesize that the owner of the title would want to insure a regular schedule by having several issues already prepared. The first Schomburg cover was with the seventh issue. Could Schomburg have created the cover for issue 8 well in advance of its scheduled release? Is it possible that the cover to number 8 was the prototype/inspiration for one of the classic comicbook covers of all time? Is it possible that the cover to issue 8 was created before Suspense 3?

Click.

All-New Comics contained a text feature that was entitled “The Story Behind the Cover”. The text would then relate a short story. The cover to a particular issue illustrated a dramatic moment from that story. Obviously the text piece and cover in issue 8 involved the comic characters of that title. Succinctly, the story in All-New 8 involved the abduction and planned execution by Nazis of the daughter of the French commander in North Africa. However, these plot elements apply with equal force to the cover of Suspense 3 as demonstrated by the following abbreviated excerpt from All-New 8:

 

Marianna Le Clair was of that startling beauty which

made all stop to stare...Yes, she was a famous general’s

daughter. The General was...[the French] commander of Camel Corps..[in] North Africa. [As she strolled through a bazaar] ...on hot sultry day...a dirty rough hand..went across her mouth... a sharp blow struck her temple....and she lost all

consciousness....

 

A shrill woman’s cry stabbed the sultry air ...

[T]russed by heavy rope, lying limp and helpless was pretty

Marianna....Over her hovered devilishly fantastic creatures,

garbed in weird costumes. To a side, a fiendish-face Nazi..

squatted. In the center of the piazza a ...man stood

raising a wicked short sword....

 

The cover to Suspense 3 had no relationship to the content of that comicbook. It may be stated that while this cover represents the ultimate “refinement” of the cover/concept of All-New 8, it is, nonetheless, a refinement. Clearly, the text piece of All-New 8 easily reflects the scene depicted on Suspense 3. Is the cover to All-New 8 the prototype for the cover to Suspense 3? Is the text piece of All-New 8 the inspiration for the cover of Suspense 3? You be the judge.

Click.

JSB 1996

 

You sir, are a gentleman and a scholar hail.gif

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do not mean to be unduly boring but here is a short column i did on All New 8 and Suspense 3 for CBM. Clearly, the story in the book was inspired by one of those covers

 

PROTOTYPE OR RE-TREAD?

 

Click.

The last issue of CBM spotlighted the run of Suspense Comics, and particularly the third issue with the classic Schomburg cover. Other than the postage size reproduction in the Gerber Photo-Journal and occasionally viewing the book from afar at infrequently attended comicbook conventions, I had never had an opportunity to view the third issue with any degree of care until it was reproduced in the color gallery of CBM 30. After looking at it a bit, it seemed oddly familiar, as if I had seen it in some other form.

Click.

I pulled out a copy of All-New Comics 8. There it was. Another Schomburg cover. As viewed, there was a bound blond threatened by an upturned sword. Both issues have the woman surrounded by monstrous Nazis, some hooded in Klu Klux Klan fashion. Both impending executions are set in a tropical locale surrounded by raised walls or land with desperate rescues in sight. In one, a Nazi shoots a revolver from the lower right to the upper left while in the other the shot starts from the lower left and goes to the upper right. Instead of the spear set to be flung from up above in Suspense 3, there is a machine gun firing down into the scene of impending mayhem. Of course, the All-New cover prominently features the “Red Blazer” and the “Boy Heroes”, the title’s resident heroes. However, the overall composition and feel of each cover are obviously similar. Mere coincidence?

Click.

Suspense 3 has an April 1944 cover date while All-New 8 has a cover date of May 1944- only one month apart! Logic would dictate that Schomburg had to have created these covers in close temporal proximity to one another. Commencing with issue 6, All-New’s prior sporadic output went on an every other month schedule. One could hypothesize that the owner of the title would want to insure a regular schedule by having several issues already prepared. The first Schomburg cover was with the seventh issue. Could Schomburg have created the cover for issue 8 well in advance of its scheduled release? Is it possible that the cover to number 8 was the prototype/inspiration for one of the classic comicbook covers of all time? Is it possible that the cover to issue 8 was created before Suspense 3?

Click.

All-New Comics contained a text feature that was entitled “The Story Behind the Cover”. The text would then relate a short story. The cover to a particular issue illustrated a dramatic moment from that story. Obviously the text piece and cover in issue 8 involved the comic characters of that title. Succinctly, the story in All-New 8 involved the abduction and planned execution by Nazis of the daughter of the French commander in North Africa. However, these plot elements apply with equal force to the cover of Suspense 3 as demonstrated by the following abbreviated excerpt from All-New 8:

 

Marianna Le Clair was of that startling beauty which

made all stop to stare...Yes, she was a famous general’s

daughter. The General was...[the French] commander of Camel Corps..[in] North Africa. [As she strolled through a bazaar] ...on hot sultry day...a dirty rough hand..went across her mouth... a sharp blow struck her temple....and she lost all

consciousness....

 

A shrill woman’s cry stabbed the sultry air ...

[T]russed by heavy rope, lying limp and helpless was pretty

Marianna....Over her hovered devilishly fantastic creatures,

garbed in weird costumes. To a side, a fiendish-face Nazi..

squatted. In the center of the piazza a ...man stood

raising a wicked short sword....

 

The cover to Suspense 3 had no relationship to the content of that comicbook. It may be stated that while this cover represents the ultimate “refinement” of the cover/concept of All-New 8, it is, nonetheless, a refinement. Clearly, the text piece of All-New 8 easily reflects the scene depicted on Suspense 3. Is the cover to All-New 8 the prototype for the cover to Suspense 3? Is the text piece of All-New 8 the inspiration for the cover of Suspense 3? You be the judge.

Click.

JSB 1996

 

You sir, are a gentleman and a scholar hail.gif

 

Wow. I had no idea we could now use the word prototype for a cover and not just a charater. Had a copy of suspense 3 years ago and after it went crazy I tried to sell it and had the damndest time getting anybody to pay 2K for a copy that looked much better than the recent one listed, though it was missing the interior page so often missing. People obsessed over that missing page like you wouldn't believ, even tnough the cover was complete and looked very nice. I find it interesting that even while people acknowledge the cover is the only thing that makes it valuable,they are less bothered by the pieces missing from the cover of this copu than they were by the missing interior page from my copy. Seems to defy common sense in my view. Seems like the part that maes it valuable should be the part you care most about.

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Had a copy of suspense 3 years ago and after it went crazy I tried to sell it and had the damndest time getting anybody to pay 2K for a copy that looked much better than the recent one listed, though it was missing the interior page so often missing. People obsessed over that missing page like you wouldn't believ, even tnough the cover was complete and looked very nice. I find it interesting that even while people acknowledge the cover is the only thing that makes it valuable,they are less bothered by the pieces missing from the cover of this copu than they were by the missing interior page from my copy. Seems to defy common sense in my view. Seems like the part that maes it valuable should be the part you care most about.

 

I hear you bluechip...I think one reason may be how CGC treats a missing page ( assuming your perspective buyers were thinking about having your book slabbed if they bought it ). A missing page is an automatic Poor .05 if memory serves me correctly. A Suspense 3 with a missing interior page should be cherrished ( as its cover is its greatness), and kept raw to avoid the "stigma" of the .05

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Had a copy of suspense 3 years ago and after it went crazy I tried to sell it and had the damndest time getting anybody to pay 2K for a copy that looked much better than the recent one listed, though it was missing the interior page so often missing. People obsessed over that missing page like you wouldn't believ, even tnough the cover was complete and looked very nice.

 

Bluechip;

 

What page was missing from the book?

 

From your statement, it appears to be a common occurrence that this particular page would be missing from copies of Suspense #3. Is there any reason for this since I just find it strange that a particular page would be missing from many copies of the same book? confused.gif

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Had a copy of suspense 3 years ago and after it went crazy I tried to sell it and had the damndest time getting anybody to pay 2K for a copy that looked much better than the recent one listed, though it was missing the interior page so often missing. People obsessed over that missing page like you wouldn't believ, even tnough the cover was complete and looked very nice.

 

Bluechip;

 

What page was missing from the book?

 

From your statement, it appears to be a common occurrence that this particular page would be missing from copies of Suspense #3. Is there any reason for this since I just find it strange that a particular page would be missing from many copies of the same book? confused.gif

 

A glued in insert if I recall - actually more than 1 page - is supposedly missing from a number of copies. While I understand the desirability of complete copies - if ever the condition of the front cover were the paramount factor in determining value - Suspense #3 would be the book.

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