PGC Mint Sales

[ghoulaid]

In conclusion, if you can buy a house for 100,000 dollars.. get someone to make the payments, meanwhile your house is appreciating.. in 20 years or so, you'll end up with a 135,000 (if it's so-so) to 155,000 (if it's nice) house.

 

First, I agree houses are (generally) wonderful investments. In 20 years your house may appreciate 50%, as described above. I've certainly seen many houses double in value in less time than that.

 

Gold has been coveted for thousands of years. Perhaps this is simplistic but 20 years ago it was selling for $350 +/- an oz. Today it's selling for $350 +/- an oz. Besides being stable, where's the return on investment?

 

I recently came across an inventory list of comics I had in 1986 complete with Overstreet prices. Now, nearly 20 years later, those same comics are worth 10 TIMES what they were then. That's not taking into account the multiples being paid for CGC 9.4 and up. I'll be the first to admit that comic prices may not continue to escalate at that pace. No one can predict the future. I never bought them for investment anyway. In the meantime though, I'll hang on to them.

[Aman619]

I recently came across an inventory list of comics I had in 1986 complete with Overstreet prices. Now, nearly 20 years later, those same comics are worth 10 TIMES what they were then. That's not taking into account the multiples being paid for CGC 9.4 and up. I'll be the first to admit that comic prices may not continue to escalate at that pace. No one can predict the future. I never bought them for investment anyway. In the meantime though, I'll hang on to them.

 

well thats where we came in...will comics CONTINUE at near the pace of aoppreciation they have for the past 20 years. I think we all agree they wont keep up the pace. Nor will they crash. So the question still comes back to whats the best place to park $150K today? Well, actually thats not the initial question is it? But thats where we have taken it havent we? Gold is the simplest answer because its so specific: just buy gold. Stocks bonds real estate all have lots of choices: buy the "wrong example", wrong location, wrong stock, wrong index(?) and you picked right, but still lost.

 

Ros's probably got the right approach: DIVERSIFY! Buy them all!

[delekkerste]

First, I agree houses are (generally) wonderful investments.

 

I would argue that houses have been wonderful investments. The biggest investment fallacy in existence today is that real estate always goes up. Oh yeah? I'll bet you'd have a hard time convincing someone from Japan or Hong Kong about that. Got deflation? Anyway, the writing's on the wall - high debt loads, rising interest rates, slowing income growth, high unemployment, the zero-principal mortgage fad, price appreciation hugely exceeding income growth...if you want to buy at all-time highs, go right ahead (I can't speak for the Midwest, but prices are waaay too high in SoCal and NY, the two markets I know). I'll be the guy buying at distressed prices later this decade.

 

 

Gold has been coveted for thousands of years. Perhaps this is simplistic but 20 years ago it was selling for $350 +/- an oz. Today it's selling for $350 +/- an oz. Besides being stable, where's the return on investment?

 

This kind of rear-view mirror analysis tells you nothing about the future. Besides, gold isn't an investment class, it's *money*. It's supposed to store value, and I'm sure it will do that much better than plastic-slabbed funny books. One ounce has bought more or less the same amount of clothes or food for the past 5000 years. It's not the phony fiat currency that the Fed created $49.9 BILLION of out of thin air during the week ended August 4. Isn't it troubling that the Fed is creating money at an annualized rate of $2.5 TRILLION per year? I'm generally a proponent of the deflation thesis, but who wouldn't want a little gold in their portfolio when you see this kind of recklessness?

 

 

No one can predict the future.

 

Why does everyone keep saying this?? That's like saying there was no way to know all those dot-com companies were overvalued and that many would eventually go bust. It was patently obvious - only the timing was in doubt. Like death - I can say with 100% metaphysical certainty that each and every one of us is going to die. However, I can't predict exactly when. The CGC market has fulfilled all the requirements of a mania/bubble, and all speculative bubbles eventually deflate. Will it happen from much higher prices? Has it already happened? I can't say for sure, though I would not want to bet my future that it lasts long enough to put all of us collectors through retirement. That's like betting on your own immortality...cryogenics notwithstanding, that's not a bet I'd take.

 

Gene

[murph0]

I don't think anyone was discussing buying houses at inflated prices in the major cities. I don't know of anyone who thinks paying 750k for a 1,000 sq ft house in Cali to be a good investment.

If you're in the midwest, you'll be the guy jumping on the boat after house prices have already appreciated (however, there'd still probably be more room for growth).

 

Brian

[delekkerste]

If you're in the midwest, you'll be the guy jumping on the boat after house prices have already appreciated

 

Not being snide here...just wondering why you think housing prices will keep going up? Even outside of the bubble markets on the coasts, I see some problems with this thesis, particularly if you look at the demographics - there are fewer young people of the home-buying age and the baby boomers will be retiring in the next 10-20 years and downsizing to smaller homes. Not to mention all the macro factors which I cited that will affect all markets.

 

Gene

[murph0]

The same could be said for your argument that they won't.

Prices have a trend in this state of appreciating, the largest sub-division in the state has had prices go up 40,000-70,000 dollars over a period of 40 years. With the exception of poorly placed houses, rezoning, poorly upkept houses, etc.. I can't say I know of anything that hasn't appreciated even on a yearly basis (given I haven't walked to every single house and asked for the assessors value every year, but I certainly have NEVER heard of anyone griping that their house is now worth less than it was 5 years ago). Iowa has many things going for it, according to multiple business magazines Des Moines/Cedar Rapids are top 10 areas for commercial/industrial growth. New jobs are coming here all the time. According to the Real Estate magazines the heavily populated areas in Iowa have the most well paid realtors in the nation. Not to mention the fact that new construction (as well as demand) has increased exponentially yearly. Given the jobs could slow down, but that still leaves more people than there are houses currently (at least in my area)

As for the retiring population and downsizing, if they attempt to downsize even more so than a 100,000 dollar house I don't know where they're gonna find it. Long story short, there's no shortage of young people coming into the area and all these people have young families who need homes.

Simply put, I may be being fairly "liberal" perhaps on my comments that they will continue to shoot up prices.. but I can say that I highly doubt they'll depreciate. I think you may be just a bit too conservative for my opinions as I believe we've seen in the past.

 

Brian

[Proverbs22_2]

Obviously there's pitfalls in purchasing income properties as well. Certainly you wouldn't want to buy anything with a questionable roof. Most of the houses I buy either have new roofs or the roof was done by someone I can trust that it will be fine for years (barring a tree falls on it or something ). I usually look for houses that have gravity furnaces due to the fact that in my experience those things seem to run forever without many problems. Obviously there's many other things to think about.. to buy a slab or not.. is the siding okay or not? Anyways, in a standard 1 year rental agreement on a 100,000 dollar house with 2 maybe 3 bedrooms. I can come out with about 800 a month in rent. So basically after the mortgaged amount you're looking at 150 dollars a month extra. That goes into a fund and provides full payment for taxes, as well as any upkeep (most years there's none, but sometimes you have to repaint or whatever).

In conclusion, if you can buy a house for 100,000 dollars.. get someone to make the payments, meanwhile your house is appreciating.. in 20 years or so, you'll end up with a 135,000 (if it's so-so) to 155,000 (if it's nice) house. Not to mention after the 20 year loan is up, all rental payments are just profit (minus repairs or upkeep of course). In my experience it's been a very pleasurable experience and profitable. As with comics, you need to be careful about what you buy though..

 

Brian

 

EDIT: Meant to add that electric, gas, water, basically all utilities are paid by the renter. Also, a portion of the actual base rent payment goes toward the yearly taxes

 

Everyone please welcome to our boards, Mr. Carlton Sheets!

 

-Joe

[Rip]

Rip, yes, S#4 is rarer and will be even as the DC census fills out as Marvel's already has. But I'm sure a 9.4 AF15 will sell for more than the one and only S#4. Does Metropolis have a price for it? Maybe Im falling for the current hype with Spidey being the king of comics and Flash/DC Silver so far "out of fashion". And this may swing back again. But Spidey's fame and success seems to be rivalling Supes and Bats in a way that Flash never will.

As the Marvel/Spidey guys are fond of saying, thats a lot of DEMAND talking $$$$s

 

In a popularity contest no question it would be Spidey. But it's not a popularity contest. You also have a half a dozen to books to choose from that are as good or better than the AF15 9.4. I guess I couldn't prove it to you, but for starters look at Showcase 4 in 8.0 on GPA. It is simply a more expensive book than AF15 in the same grade. A Showcase 4 brings around 15 K while a AF15 brings 11K.

Metropolis is "Showcasing" the book so I'd guess its for sale. But only with a true mkt sale would you know for sure.

[Aman619]

In a popularity contest no question it would be Spidey. But it's not a popularity contest. You also have a half a dozen to books to choose from that are as good or better than the AF15 9.4. I guess I couldn't prove it to you, but for starters look at Showcase 4 in 8.0 on GPA. It is simply a more expensive book than AF15 in the same grade. A Showcase 4 brings around 15 K while a AF15 brings 11K.

Metropolis is "Showcasing" the book so I'd guess its for sale. But only with a true mkt sale would you know for sure.

 

Popularity = demand which fuels prices.

 

Which bboks are as good or better? SA right? I just want to hear your list since I can only name two plus the Showcase#4 and the AF is higher than those IMO... I must be forgetting some.

 

I cant explain why an 8.0 Showcase sells for more than an 8.0 AF15...except that the 8.0 AF is the 30th best copy (just a guess) and the 8.0 Showcase is still the 3rd or 4th best copy (again a guess.) I would believe that the 8.0 Showcase will grade out closer to the TOP copy (in total # of better copies) as an 8.0 AF. So in that sense the Showcase sells for more in equal grade.

[Rip]

Popularity = demand which fuels prices.

Which bboks are as good or better? SA right? I just want to hear your list since I can only name two plus the Showcase#4 and the AF is higher than those IMO... I must be forgetting some.

Popularity is just one of many aspects in the determination of value. Image what a Suspense 3 in NM would sell for. (A VF copy sold for around 50K) Or the fact that a Showcase 8 in NM would sell for WAY more than a Daredevil 1 in NM. As to the good or better books, I was talking about the AF15. There are 5 9.4 copies and 1 9.6 of AF15 as opposed to 1 9.4 of Showcase 4. So you have more copies to choose from.

 

 

I cant explain why an 8.0 Showcase sells for more than an 8.0 AF15...except that the 8.0 AF is the 30th best copy (just a guess) and the 8.0 Showcase is still the 3rd or 4th best copy (again a guess.) I would believe that the 8.0 Showcase will grade out closer to the TOP copy (in total # of better copies) as an 8.0 AF. So in that sense the Showcase sells for more in equal grade.

 

I think you may be getting my point. When you have more to choose from, this plays an effect on the value. This is also one of the many reasons why the Hulk 1 in 9.4 sold for so much. (100K)

[Aman619]

when and where did the Hulk 1 9.4 sell for 100K?? I missed that. All Ive heard like that was the Bethlehem 9.2 selling for $50K last year....

[Rip]

I believe Tom Brulato is the current owner. As to HIS purchase price, maybe I'm just repeating rumors here. However the estimated worth of a Hulk 1 would be certainlly be around 100K. (More than likely more)

(Down to 2 stars again for me)

[Kevin76]

Yeah Brulato is the owner of the only Hulk 1 9.4 out there..now that a book! Lucky rich guy!

[Aman619]

yeah, Brulato's got a lot of nice toys. Seems he is rewarded for jumping in early and spending crazy $$$s to get the highest CGC copies at what NOW seem like steals!! Kind of a Dave Anderson move as he bought Mile Highs for what was thought of universally as "stupid" money in the early 80s. Gee - - - who's stupid now?

[COI]

Seems he is rewarded for jumping in early and spending crazy $$$s to get the highest CGC copies

 

I'm sure he's bought a lot of slabs, but from what I've heard a lot of his highest graded stuff was purchased raw, prior to CGC.

[Aman619]

Seems he is rewarded for jumping in early and spending crazy $$$s to get the highest CGC copies

 

I'm sure he's bought a lot of slabs, but from what I've heard a lot of his highest graded stuff was purchased raw, prior to CGC.

 

and he sent them out to CGC...even though they are not for sale?? Is he just trying to be ready to sell?

[COI]

If you haven't already, read this:

 

http://scoop.diamondgalleries.com/scoop_article.asp?ai=565&si=127

 

I can't speculate on his exact motivations, but If I had spent that kind of money, and had those caliber of books prior to CGC, I probably would have slabbed them as well, if nothing else to "weed" out the restored books. If you have the resources to go after the best, have spent many years/lots of $$$ amassing your collection, and are still active in the hobby, why leave any guesswork as to what you own?

[Aman619]

gotcha...I never read the whole thing. (made me too jealous!) I was judst projectinh since I havent sent any of my books in for grading or resto check..