Sale of Amazing Spider-man #86 makes "Scoop"

[awe4one]

Just because you aren't willing to buy an issue at a lower price and then turn around and sell it for a higher price, doesn't mean there aren't plenty of people out willing to.

 

I agree with Bob to an extent that drawing attention to a sale like this will increase all grades for this issue, which makes it more difficult to obtain a copy of an issue that is a non-key issue.

 

Maybe...but let's don't overdramatize the significance of this sale. There's a very limited sector of the hobby or even slab collectors that this will impact in the short term. It's an anomoly and won't effect much a year down the road.

 

In alot of respects it mirrors Greggy's infamous ASM #101 sale years ago. Today we look back and laugh...and that was a key issue...

 

Jim

[lighthouse]

I think one question to ask yourself regarding the significance of this sale is this:

 

If a second 9.8 hit the market two months from now, what would it bring? Would the two underbidders still be willing to pony up $5K each?

 

If the answer to that question is yes, then I don't think the sale affected the market at all. All it did was update the rest of us that the people playing in the deep end of the pool are serious about what they want and are willing to pay for it. That's not exactly news, but we get reminded every once in a while...

 

If the answer is no, then I think this sale will have a negative effect on the market. When people happily pay more than you or I, we shrug our collective shoulders and move on. If everyone involved stays happy with the transaction it really doesn't affect us. But if the second 9.8 copy sold for $3K (to pick an arbitrary number), then the comic "pundits" would come out of the woodwork with every ridiculous opinion known to man. They would talk about profiteering on FFB's part. They would talk about a crash of high grade prices. They would talk about how none of these books were really worth anything and it was all just speculators trying to make a buck. They would talk about collusion among dealers to inflate prices. The *spoon* storm would be tremendous...

 

It's not nearly as big a news story when something sells for a high price as it is when something sells for a whole lot less than it used to.

[BlowUpTheMoon]

 

http://www.pgxcomics.com/census.cfm?q=AMAZING%20SPIDERMAN&st=2&so=Issue&met=con

 

I wasn't even aware they had a census.

 

It's hardly a census. It's a static spreadsheet and is very incomplete. I submitted 4 or 5 unique variant type books to PGX about 4 years ago. None of them are in their "census."

 

In effect, it's a list of **some** of the books they've slabbed.

 

Thanks for the info.

[Aman619]

yeah, but, th enext copy will not sell for half of this one. no way. It would take time and more copies to surface before thi sbenchmark is no longer written in stone for a 9.8.

[bluechip]

I think it has more to do with the collectibles market. Collectibles command prices because of the rarity factor. The easiest way to get information about the rarity of certain books in certain grades is using the CGC census. So in that way yes the CGC census has that affect on prices.

 

Now if you want to talk about grading and the somewhat arbitrary nature of 9.6s vs 9.8s we may have a different topic especially when 9.8s are selling at these multiples of 9.6s.

 

One would be wise to exercise extreme caution when utilizing the CGC census as a tool for measuring "rarity" or quantity and quality of books certified.

 

Although the certification database is populated on the front-end with a book's initial certification, there is absolutely no way to reconcile the database on the backend to reflect an accurate census. Reason being: the label (certification number) is the linchpin for accuracy in the population report when books go through subsequent re-certifications.

 

Unless the current certification label for any given re-submission is returned before/after re-certification, the population report is subject to inaccuracies and may in fact be misleading.

 

As time goes by and the level of re-submissions compound without label returns (or owners "crack out" their books but fail to return the labels) the reliability and accuracy of the information will continue to degrade. So much so, the population for certain issues may become completely compromised and invalid (wouldn't be a surprise if this has already happened with some).

 

I owned a scarce key book that was slabbed at least three times. Came to me as a decent low grade complete but slight restored book. I thought it was absurd to call it restored because nothing had been done that made the book grade higher and there was plenty which could have been done, b ut wasn't.; Soi I took it out. Potential buyer looked at the book. I told them it had been in a PLOD and what the grade was. They sent it to CGC and it came back with the same restored label. He sent it back to me in the new slab and took it out again. The ultimate buyer took it iout of the slab and had the gleu removed, and the book got the same grade, no longer restored. I heard that buyer then had the book restored (taking it out of the slab once again). All the work which could have been done and wasn't before was now done and I understand the book ended up meriting a high restored grade -- which might mean it was slabbed yet again. That would make four times for one book. I emailed CGC with the history but when I checked months later to see how many copies there were of the book (around 30 or so) it appeared the same book was still listed there, three times (I never know what the final restored grade was, so I can't say if it's in the census four times)

[FFB]

Personally, I think the question people should be asking themselves is this - have you ever tried to find a copy of this book in 9.6 or 9.8? I don't even mean slabbed, necessarily. I am talking raw or slabbed. Although it is a "white" cover on much of the book, the corners and 80-90% of the edges are all colored with relatively dark ink and there is a black spine line, so any spine stress or corner blunting would crack that ink layer in a second and keep the book out of 9.6, let alone 9.8.

 

I spent a lot of time over the years trying to find the best copy of this book that I could. It is or was on my want list with every dealer who has a want list service (including Bob Storms, yes indeed) and has been for some time. I scoured convention floors (my friends can attest to this) and bought every nice copy I could find, most of which were VF/NMs and 9.2s, because 99% of the time, those were the BEST copies in the market. Before this copy, the nicest copy I had found (and won - I did miss a CGC 9.4 on ebay that sold for over $600, when I thought my snipe of $500 would be enough to win the book) was a nicely centered CGC 9.2 Western PA pedigree copy that I wound up selling to Andrew (fellow forumite CaptainsofIndustry) after I got this copy. Doug Schmell sold his CGC 9.6 copy for $1,500 before he ever listed it for sale (more than two years ago), and if he had auctioned it, it probably would have sold for $2,000 (which would have been my high bid at the time, so maybe even more than that).

 

It is fun to speculate that there must be collections full of pristine copies of this book somewhere. Maybe there are, maybe there aren't. But I have definitely been looking and have not seen them. Apparently others have looked too, because this book had a LOT of interest from multiple parties. Just as Bob said that speculating about the "true value" of this book is interesting beer talk after the fact, so is speculating about how many zillions of NM/MT copies "must be out there somewhere."

 

If they're out there in NM/MT, go get them! I believe you'll find the getting tougher than you think. And please report back on your successes.

 

I think one question to ask yourself regarding the significance of this sale is this:

 

If a second 9.8 hit the market two months from now, what would it bring? Would the two underbidders still be willing to pony up $5K each?

 

If the answer to that question is yes, then I don't think the sale affected the market at all. All it did was update the rest of us that the people playing in the deep end of the pool are serious about what they want and are willing to pay for it. That's not exactly news, but we get reminded every once in a while...

 

If the answer is no, then I think this sale will have a negative effect on the market. When people happily pay more than you or I, we shrug our collective shoulders and move on. If everyone involved stays happy with the transaction it really doesn't affect us. But if the second 9.8 copy sold for $3K (to pick an arbitrary number), then the comic "pundits" would come out of the woodwork with every ridiculous opinion known to man. They would talk about profiteering on FFB's part. They would talk about a crash of high grade prices. They would talk about how none of these books were really worth anything and it was all just speculators trying to make a buck. They would talk about collusion among dealers to inflate prices. The *spoon* storm would be tremendous...

 

It's not nearly as big a news story when something sells for a high price as it is when something sells for a whole lot less than it used to.

[Ze-man]

Ol Gil made the sale Scott, be happy and let the rest of us scramble around and try to figure out what to do next ok?

 

 

Ze-

[awe4one]

Why do you feel the need to repeatedly try to justify the sale? It is what it is. You've told us, numerous times, what a gorgeous copy it is...

 

Time will tell if the price was indeed justified or just another case of going insane with "gottahavethebestcopyitis". You won't be able to figure out that today...

 

Jim

[FFB]

Why do you feel the need to repeatedly try to justify the sale? It is what it is. You've told us, numerous times, what a gorgeous copy it is...

 

Time will tell if the price was indeed justified or just another case of going insane with "gottahavethebestcopyitis". You won't be able to figure out that today...

 

Jim

 

Excuse me? I'm just having a discussion. Why do you feel the need to post your two cents about how you no longer have any interest in this book? Why are you still reading this thread about a sale of a book that you no longer have any interest in?

[BlowUpTheMoon]

[CW]

Who cares if the price is justified. FFB was first in line for a 9.8 copy of this book and gets to name his price and reap the rewards. Congratulations by the way! If it had been me I would have done the exact same thing minus trying to explain myself to everybody that had a problem with it. My 2 cents (dropping in value daily )

[awe4one]

Why do you feel the need to repeatedly try to justify the sale? It is what it is. You've told us, numerous times, what a gorgeous copy it is...

 

Time will tell if the price was indeed justified or just another case of going insane with "gottahavethebestcopyitis". You won't be able to figure out that today...

 

Jim

 

Excuse me? I'm just having a discussion. Why do you feel the need to post your two cents about how you no longer have any interest in this book? Why are you still reading this thread about a sale of a book that you no longer have any interest in?

 

One...because it was humorous listening to you repeatedly justifying the sale...the first couple times you did so. But it's now been done to the point where it's making you sound a bit insecure about the whole transaction.

 

And two...it's interesting to hear Bob's take on the high-end of the market in regards to this sale...

 

Jim

[sterlingcomics]

At $5,300...I could buy some time with a shrink to deal with my insecurities.

[awe4one]

At $5,300...I could buy some time with a shrink to deal with my insecurities.

 

Indeed you could...and probably a lawyer when it didn't work...

 

Jim

[FFB]

Why do you feel the need to repeatedly try to justify the sale? It is what it is. You've told us, numerous times, what a gorgeous copy it is...

 

Time will tell if the price was indeed justified or just another case of going insane with "gottahavethebestcopyitis". You won't be able to figure out that today...

 

Jim

 

Excuse me? I'm just having a discussion. Why do you feel the need to post your two cents about how you no longer have any interest in this book? Why are you still reading this thread about a sale of a book that you no longer have any interest in?

 

One...because it was humorous listening to you repeatedly justifying the sale...the first couple times you did so. But it's now been done to the point where it's making you sound a bit insecure about the whole transaction.

 

And two...it's interesting to hear Bob's take on the high-end of the market in regards to this sale...

 

Jim

 

So . . . my take on the transaction, being someone who has a lot more experience with and knowledge of this book over the last several years, let alone being the only person to own a slabbed 9.8 and field multiple bids for it, is "insecurity." (Despite the fact that I no longer own the book and don't really have an interest in supporting a high resale price.)

 

Bob's take on the transaction, with his admittedly low experience with and knowledge of the book in the past several years is, however, "interesting," and presumably "valuable" to you.

 

All right, I'm all clear now.

 

I would just like to point out that what I find humorous is watching several guys like you, who clearly don't know what they're talking about, trot out their expert opinions on the book. (I'm not talking about Bob here - I'm talking about guys like you who actually have zero knowledge.) Now that's funny!

 

Carry on....

[awe4one]

I would just like to point out that what I find humorous is watching several guys like you, who clearly don't know what they're talking about, trot out their expert opinions on the book. (I'm not talking about Bob here - I'm talking about guys like you who actually have zero knowledge.) Now that's funny!

 

What expert opinion have I made on this book other than saying it's probably an anomoly and not a book I was going after? I didn't post in your sale thread and stayed away from commenting until you made the implication that the sale was hurt by being listed in the Marketplace, people started talking about this sale "changing the market for the issue" and your continuing overwrought justification of how gorgeous the copy was.

 

I think maybe you need to re-read who's saying what around here...

 

Jim

[awe4one]

Bob's take on the transaction, with his admittedly low experience with and knowledge of the book in the past several years is, however, "interesting," and presumably "valuable" to you.

 

Oh...and yes, I'll listen to Storms all day in regards to back issue collecting over you any day of the week. He's developed something called credibility in the market. You haven't...

 

Jim

[FFB]

I would just like to point out that what I find humorous is watching several guys like you, who clearly don't know what they're talking about, trot out their expert opinions on the book. (I'm not talking about Bob here - I'm talking about guys like you who actually have zero knowledge.) Now that's funny!

 

What expert opinion have I made on this book other than saying it's probably an anomoly and not a book I was going after? I didn't post in your sale thread and stayed away from commenting until you made the implication that the sale was hurt by being listed in the Marketplace, people started talking about this sale "changing the market for the issue" and your continuing overwrought justification of how gorgeous the copy was.

 

I think maybe you need to re-read who's saying what around here...

 

Jim

 

My comments (particularly the ones you called "insecurity") were about how difficult a book it is to find in high grade, which followed several posts with speculation that this book is available in quantity in high grade in a warehouse somewhere. That isn't "overwrought justification" - it's a fact. As for how nice this particular copy of the book is, the scans and the grade speak for themselves.

 

Anyway, I do think it's a little ironic that the Scoop article has a link to the CGC forums. Anyone who hasn't already considered selling a top census book on the forums will probably steer well clear of the marketplace after reading all of this garbage.

[Ze-man]

Look, to be fair.

 

The Forum Marketplace is not the venue most people use to hawk their uber HG stuff. They use the typical suspects knowing their sale will remain anonymous, and reach a broader prospective buyer.

 

Duh!

 

 

Yet you chose to bring it here first,kudos to you for that Scott. You brought it here to see if your fellow mates wanted first crack at it( and to also avoid listing fees I might add).

 

But don't trash the marketplace for what it is. A great place to buy and sell books.

 

Just because you were not thick skinned enough to let harmless(intentional I might add) personal barbs float off the ducks back. Well then yes, people wishing to sell top o the census books should avoid marketplace unless they are not afraid to list a book for what they want, and all comers be darned if they don't care for the asking price.

 

But why not change that atmosphere Scott?, it is an obvious win win for the seller if they get their asking price in Marketplace, isnt it?

 

I implore you Scott, ease up off the throttle and just laugh this off, cause it is a laugher my friend. And figure out a way to foster HG sales like this in Marketplace, instead of poo poohing them.

 

 

Ze-

[Dad&Son-migration]

Look, to be fair.

 

The Forum Marketplace is not the venue most people use to hawk their uber HG stuff. They use the typical suspects knowing their sale will remain anonymous, and reach a broader prospective buyer.

 

Duh!

 

 

Yet you chose to bring it here first,kudos to you for that Scott. You brought it here to see if your fellow mates wanted first crack at it( and to also avoid listing fees I might add).

 

But don't trash the marketplace for what it is. A great place to buy and sell books.

 

Just because you were not thick skinned enough to let harmless(intentional I might add) personal barbs float off the ducks back. Well then yes, people wishing to sell top o the census books should avoid marketplace unless they are not afraid to list a book for what they want, and all comers be darned if they don't care for the asking price.

 

But why not change that atmosphere Scott?, it is an obvious win win for the seller if they get their asking price in Marketplace, isnt it?

 

I implore you Scott, ease up off the throttle and just laugh this off, cause it is a laugher my friend. And figure out a way to foster HG sales like this in Marketplace, instead of poo poohing them.

 

 

Ze-

 

Well said !!! I second that.. plus... this is all for not.. the buyer will crack it and press it into a 9.9 anyways..