Sale of Amazing Spider-man #86 makes "Scoop"

[OldGuy]

When did the CGC census become a barometer of value?

 

The first time the second copy of a book was certified.

[Deathlok]

i think it can play a factor when selling and touting a book as the "one and only" 9.6 or 9.8.....

 

I can understand it being used as a selling feature, but that doesn't equate to it's value.

 

For example if you have 2 books, let's say ASM 84 and 86. The 84 has 2 9.8s on the census. So by this method the 86 is worth as much Scott sold it, but the 84 isn't because there are more copies graded in the census? ( i haven't looked up GPA or guide on this, so I might be wrong on value)

 

I think it's great that Scott made the sale, however I feel sorry for the hobby when the CGC census is the basis for valuating a book.

[TeddieMercede]

I think it has more to do with the collectibles market. Collectibles command prices because of the rarity factor. The easiest way to get information about the rarity of certain books in certain grades is using the CGC census. So in that way yes the CGC census has that affect on prices.

 

Now if you want to talk about grading and the somewhat arbitrary nature of 9.6s vs 9.8s we may have a different topic especially when 9.8s are selling at these multiples of 9.6s.

[sckao]

 

Let's take something like Terminator: The Burning Earth. Alex Ross's first professional work.

 

There are no 9.8 copies for #2, #3, and #5 out of a 5 issue set.

 

If I had say 10 copies of each of those that I thought were 9.8, it'd probably be better to slab them ONE AT A TIME rather than to slab them all at the same time. That's the power of the CGC census. It definitely affects pricing based on perceived rarity.

[FFB]

i think it can play a factor when selling and touting a book as the "one and only" 9.6 or 9.8.....

 

Especially when a book that is notorious for miswraps is as well centered as this one was, with pages as white as the day it was printed.

 

We can debate all day long how much the book "should" be worth, but the fact is that the book saw plenty of interest even at these high prices.

[g-man]

also has to do with perception.....

 

in terms of the #84..there are 2x as many 9.6s as the #86. Also 2x 9.4s as well. So the perception (and reality) is that the 86 is a tougher book hence the higher value and the higher prices realized.

[Wally's Comics]

 

 

 

Congrats!

 

how much are you looking for it?

 

 

[Jeffreykli]

Out of curiosity... anybody know offhand how many books produced later than this one have sold for a higher price, in any grade?

 

I would imagine it's a fairly short list...

 

Dave Sim's Cerebus file copy #1 CGC 9.4, ASM# 121, 122, 129, Hulk 181, X-Men 94, GS X-Men #1, for starters. House of Secrets #92 in 9.8 would shatter that price -- and would probably sell for around $5,300 in CGC 9.6.

 

TMNT #1 in 9.6 went for over $8k.

[bluechip]

i think it can play a factor when selling and touting a book as the "one and only" 9.6 or 9.8.....

 

I can understand it being used as a selling feature, but that doesn't equate to it's value.

 

For example if you have 2 books, let's say ASM 84 and 86. The 84 has 2 9.8s on the census. So by this method the 86 is worth as much Scott sold it, but the 84 isn't because there are more copies graded in the census? ( i haven't looked up GPA or guide on this, so I might be wrong on value)

 

I think it's great that Scott made the sale, however I feel sorry for the hobby when the CGC census is the basis for valuating a book.

 

I am always happy to see someone make a decent sale, and especially happy for FFB.

 

But from the number of warehouses I've seen or heard tell of holding unexplored mountains of silver age to modern books, it can be hard to believe the CGC census is the only place where one can find a pristine copy of this book or that.

 

And from the discussions on this board it's hard to believe most people, even expert graders, can reliably quantify the difference between two books at 9.6 and 9.8 and consistently pick which is gonna be which.

 

So, when you pay you have to know yo'ure paying not necessarily because you'd consider it the best or that any random expert would consider it the best, but mostly because one person put a number on it which was uniquely high, at least at the time.

 

Presumably when you buy the book you're hoping the number stays unique. But we can't really root for that one way or the other.

 

It could diminish a given book if if more of the same number grade cropped up. But it would diminish the book and the entire hobby if copies of the same book appeared that were virtually identical but somehow got lesser grades.

[BlowUpTheMoon]

 

Presumably when you buy the book you're hoping the number stays unique. But we can't really root for that one way or the other.

 

I bet the buyer is rooting for it remaining the highest graded copy.

[Deathlok]

 

Presumably when you buy the book you're hoping the number stays unique. But we can't really root for that one way or the other.

 

I bet the buyer is rooting for it remaining the highest graded copy.

At that price some of the 9.6 may be pressed into 9.8s.

[comicwiz]

 

Presumably when you buy the book you're hoping the number stays unique. But we can't really root for that one way or the other.

 

I bet the buyer is rooting for it remaining the highest graded copy.

 

Yep, and if one turns up, he'll be following the same fate as the gent in your avatar

 

Congrats on the sale Scott!

 

Maybe it was me, but I had to go back and reread the article because when I first read it, it sounded like Scott was the buyer.

[lighthouse]

 

Presumably when you buy the book you're hoping the number stays unique. But we can't really root for that one way or the other.

 

I bet the buyer is rooting for it remaining the highest graded copy.

 

Actually I bet the buyer doesn't give a rat's butt about whether it remains the highest graded copy or not...

 

When you have the scratch to throw $5,000 at a book that guides for $100, it's not like losing a couple grand is going to affect your net worth one bit.

 

I would bet that the buyer was just happy to check this book of their list and that he could care less about whether someone else eventually gets a copy.

[FFB]

 

Presumably when you buy the book you're hoping the number stays unique. But we can't really root for that one way or the other.

 

I bet the buyer is rooting for it remaining the highest graded copy.

 

Actually I bet the buyer doesn't give a rat's butt about whether it remains the highest graded copy or not...

 

When you have the scratch to throw $5,000 at a book that guides for $100, it's not like losing a couple grand is going to affect your net worth one bit.

 

I would bet that the buyer was just happy to check this book of their list and that he could care less about whether someone else eventually gets a copy.

 

I am pretty sure that the buyer could turn around and re-sell this book at an instant profit to the forumite who promised to pay more than anyone else for this book if I would tell him what the high bid was in advance. I don't usually take comments like that seriously, but from what I understand about that particular forumite, he was serious.

[BlowUpTheMoon]

For the heck of it I checked the PGX census to see if they had graded any copies of this book very high. Only to find out they have only graded seven ASMs

 

http://www.pgxcomics.com/census.cfm?q=AMAZING%20SPIDERMAN&st=2&so=Issue&met=con

[Deathlok]

For the heck of it I checked the PGX census to see if they had graded any copies of this book very high. Only to find out they have only graded seven ASMs

 

http://www.pgxcomics.com/census.cfm?q=AMAZING%20SPIDERMAN&st=2&so=Issue&met=con

 

I wasn't even aware they had a census.

[MasterChief]

I think it has more to do with the collectibles market. Collectibles command prices because of the rarity factor. The easiest way to get information about the rarity of certain books in certain grades is using the CGC census. So in that way yes the CGC census has that affect on prices.

 

Now if you want to talk about grading and the somewhat arbitrary nature of 9.6s vs 9.8s we may have a different topic especially when 9.8s are selling at these multiples of 9.6s.

 

One would be wise to exercise extreme caution when utilizing the CGC census as a tool for measuring "rarity" or quantity and quality of books certified.

 

Although the certification database is populated on the front-end with a book's initial certification, there is absolutely no way to reconcile the database on the backend to reflect an accurate census. Reason being: the label (certification number) is the linchpin for accuracy in the population report when books go through subsequent re-certifications.

 

Unless the current certification label for any given re-submission is returned before/after re-certification, the population report is subject to inaccuracies and may in fact be misleading.

 

As time goes by and the level of re-submissions compound without label returns (or owners "crack out" their books but fail to return the labels) the reliability and accuracy of the information will continue to degrade. So much so, the population for certain issues may become completely compromised and invalid (wouldn't be a surprise if this has already happened with some).

[Deathlok]

I think it has more to do with the collectibles market. Collectibles command prices because of the rarity factor. The easiest way to get information about the rarity of certain books in certain grades is using the CGC census. So in that way yes the CGC census has that affect on prices.

 

Now if you want to talk about grading and the somewhat arbitrary nature of 9.6s vs 9.8s we may have a different topic especially when 9.8s are selling at these multiples of 9.6s.

 

One would be wise to exercise extreme caution when utilizing the CGC census as tool for measuring "rarity" or quantity and quality of books certified.

 

Although the certification database is populated on the front-end with a book's initial certification, there is absolutely no way to reconcile the database on the backend to reflect an accurate census. Reason being: the label (certification number) is the linchpin for accuracy in the population report when books go through subsequent re-certifications.

 

Unless the current certification label for any given re-submission is returned before/after re-certification, the population report is subject to inaccuracies and may in fact be misleading.

 

As time goes by and the level of re-submissions compound without label returns (or owners "crack out" their books but fail to return the labels) the reliability and accuracy of the information will continue to degrade. So much so, the population for certain issues may become completely compromised and invalid (wouldn't be a surprise if this has already happened with some).

 

Not even taking into account collectors who do not have their entire collection slabbed. This being a non-key issue there is no incentive to slab it, if you had no plans to sell it. There could very well be several 9.8 copies of this book in collection that may not see the light of day for awhile.

[g-man]

 

 

Not even taking into account collectors who do not have their entire collection slabbed. This being a non-key issue there is no incentive to slab it, if you had no plans to sell it. There could very well be several 9.8 copies of this book in collection that may not see the light of day for awhile.

 

i am sure there are even more than that but until they do and the census shows it...FFB's former copy is the one and only certified copy. And the 76x guide price (as well as the multiple $5K+ offers) indicates that collectors/speculators love that fact.

[Mr. Zipper]

For the heck of it I checked the PGX census to see if they had graded any copies of this book very high. Only to find out they have only graded seven ASMs

 

http://www.pgxcomics.com/census.cfm?q=AMAZING%20SPIDERMAN&st=2&so=Issue&met=con

 

I wasn't even aware they had a census.

 

It's hardly a census. It's a static spreadsheet and is very incomplete. I submitted 4 or 5 unique variant type books to PGX about 4 years ago. None of them are in their "census."

 

In effect, it's a list of **some** of the books they've slabbed.