sfcityduck

If War 2 was sold, I'd really like to know what happened to War 1. My hope would be that that the family kept those three books for their own heritage. I'd really hope they weren't cherry picked by an insider.

I don't think that Bleeding Cool series of paid ads is a comprehensive list. My own Promise Collection book is not on their list, I think.

War 1 is, War 2 is not. I count three Korean War covers that should be in the collection but have not seen them yet, although I might have missed them. What are the two books already sold? War 1 Operation Peril 2 Captain Steve Savage 1

What were the two Korean War books?

Known, but not publicized I think.

What was the unique tie. I know of three books that should be in the collection, none of which have come to market yet (I think of them as the elephants not in the room), although books before and/or after have. Sort of puzzling. Makes you wonder. But what are the two books you think have a "unique tie"? I'll tell you my three still (possibly) to come (because I'll be outbid), if you tell me your two that have already been sold.

You are far more expert than I, but I've got a lot of late 1940s to early 1950s books out of Oregon, and none have writing on the cover. On the other hand, I've also got a lot of 1970s comics from Oregon and they all have a spray paint stripe. My feeling is that the earlier books are closer to minty fresh than the ones the distributor mangled in the 1970s. And if I had two books, all other things being equal, and one being unmarked and the other had a name on it or even a distributor code or a date stamp, I'd expect that later book to take a hit.

Do you think they are better or worse? I think I'd take an EC file copy over an equal pedigree copy compiled by Joe Schmoe any day due to the association with the publisher.

If you are going to deduct for writing, which I agree is one principled option, it really should start with any writing whatsoever. A comic book with post-production writing on it cannot be mint if other post-production copies don't have writing on them. So if one geographic area has a distributor that writes on the books and another does not, that is still a defect. Which is is not to say a comic with writing on it cannot be desirable. The writing may increase its desirability. But aren't grade and desirability two different things? What I hate in the post-CGC world is the notion that a book with a higher numerical rating by CGC is more desirable than a book with a lower numerical rating. But, I think file copy stamps, court exhibit stamps, certain names, etc., can all increase the desirability of a book. Even though they decrease the grade. If you're going to mark a book down for writing and marking, that's great, but let's not say some writing is good, other writing is bad, and pretend this is a science that allows you to know which books are more desirable.

Gary and Zaid have written articles in OPG and, I think, CBM which contain those details, if I recall correctly. There is also a good thread on these boards somewhere in which they discuss that stuff.

I suspect Cat and Bedrock share a desire for the full and correct story to come out for all the reasons that Cat just mentioned. Bedrock just appears more concerned with how it comes out as he doesn't think Heritage should be put on the spot. I believe that Heritage would always love to tell the most complete story they can if they believe that will help sell the books. But, it appears their hands might be tied in this instance.

Well, without knowing who your source is or what your source's opinion is based upon, I'm not sure how I can give this more credence than the other unverified info I've been given.

What is the basis of your source's opinion? Hard to believe that Heritage (which reads the boards) or CGC (which operates them) would not just say the theory herein is wrong if folks are seriously in danger of being misled. Who is your source? My apologies, but my concern is that some folks (I'm not saying you) might want to play some misdirection games out of a misguided desire to "protect" Heritage or the consignors. You previously posted on this thread: Perhaps your source thought you would be a sympathetic channel to try and throw off the scent. Just a thought. I do not rely on info I cannot verify. I have been given information that comics with the same type of distribution marks have come out of Connecticut before. I have also been told that a small lot of high grade GA books with the same type of distributor marks showed up for sale in a location near the Bob's home shortly before these books went to Heritage. The story about those books was that they came out of a storage facility. As I said, I can't verify those stories, so they don't factor into my analysis. So unless you tell me your source, it's just another rumor that I have to in good conscience discount as it is not verified. This information was given to me when I previously was looking at a pair brothers out of Detroit, Michigan. I ultimately abandoned that pair of brothers as candidates because, although the names fit the story better, there was no hint of a "promise" connection and the older brother had died in 2001. As I have said many times, I could be wrong, I have looked at and rejected many many pairs of brothers. But, the Dumas brothers seem a better fit than any. I do note that Ohio pedigree books have distributor codes on their covers. This is not unusual, as many comics have distributor codes. The SF collection has "g" codes, River City has "s" codes, Penn might have "p" or "r" codes, some Okajima appear to have "f" codes, . Maybe your source is relying on the Ohio pedigree which overlaps the Promise Collection and which either have just a date or a "c" code. CGC's code examples for Ohio pedigree: There are "C" codes on some Promise books. Here's a CGC example. BUT there are also "c" (and "d" codes) on Mile High's and Aurora's out of Colorado (and I've been told, but not verified, in the Denver's also): The Promise Collection also features many books "K" codes - which have not been seen on the Ohio pedigree books (or any other geographically identified pedigree) to my knowledge: So if your source is basing his info on the "c" distributor codes, he's probably chasing a squirrel. Unless someone can tie the codes to particular distributors and their geographic reach, this is just another data point that does not establish anything.

Masterchief brought this one and a few other oddities up on the story of a promise thread and we discussed them there.

Can you post one that works for wives?

Famous First Editions in 1974. So really just "vintage" not "antique."

I just realized that some of the comics mentioned in this thread as strong contenders for "coolest single copies in the hobby" are now coming to auction!

Feel free to take a pic and post it!

Is CGC certifying these Given the provenance and chain of ownership, pretty shocking should CGC not do that. But, my recollection is that CGC took a shocking position in the past. Anyone know the status on that? EDITED: Looks like CGC will grade them now.

IMHO, some of the coolest books ever. One of the top discoveries ever. And coming to auction!

Apparently old Lloyd wasn't adverse to paying his artists a little late.

If the right answer is the theory is off-base, then no "outing" is required. To be clear: I would not expect Heritage to "out the consignor against the consignor's wishes," especially if their hands are tied. I would expect Heritage to be in a better position to contact the consignor than me (which was your prior suggestion) to see if the consignor wants to admit or deny my theory or maybe even present, on their own terms with their own family information at their own time, a fuller story. So don't construe my posts as a demand for punishment of Heritage. I am making a plea, not firing up the torches and pitchforks. I just want to try to make sure the history is clear. I may fail at that. I take it from your comment that "you already have a pretty good idea of who that consignor is" and your prior comments that you agree with the theory. If the theory is correct, there's no way Heritage gets "punished" by anyone anyways. As I said early on, the Bob and Roger story would add value to the collection. And it was inevitable that the full story would come out someday. But, I'll tell you what, since my posts are causing some confusion, there is no need for further pleas by me to Heritage and CGC. I'll desist. I'm happy to discuss "the OCD that drives the pursuit of the informational minutia surrounding them [pedigrees] after they are discovered." The answer is simple, the stories add value. And as a collector and dealer, I'm sure you (1) want to accurately know what you can about the comics you own and sell which could add value in the eyes of buyers and (2) you want to make sure that the stories told to you by other collectors or dealers which you think add value to comics you are buying are true. Pretty simple concept: Sellers should strive to tell accurate stories and buyers are entitled to figure out if the stories told them are accurate.

I have seen the story of Roger's entry into the military several different ways. All agree on that it was before he was 18 (which he required a parent's signature and his mom signed). All agree that Roger went into the military before Bob (but after his older brothers). The National Guard story is not usually included. My assumption is that joining the National Guard would not have impacted the way he collected comics as he was probably living at home. I have not yet been able to confirm Roger and Bob's enlistment info. As I've said the media reports, and Bob's tellings, can differ or even contradict one another. There is an understandable amount of ambiguity. That newly listed Action 132 could say "Ray", "Roy", or "Rog." Make of that what you will. Obviously, "Rog" would be consistent with my theory, "Ray" and "Roy" would not. It predates the "Armand" books by a few months. There are more "Armand" books in the new listings. I saw that Exposed 7 and I can't figure out what that says. That first letter could be a D, but that could be wrong. Might say "Dial" or "Deal" or that last letter might be a "b" or a "t", just can't read that one. Your thoughts? I'm not getting overly hung up on the utility of the one-off names on the cover because there could be explanations consistent with my theory that are lost to the sands of time (friends OO traded with, etc.). The sheer volume of the "Armand" books makes them the key clue I think.

They all are.

Does an MC 1 increase in value when it gets a bump these days? Seems like all that should matter is where it ranks on the desirability scale. The way I see it, the most desirable copy is the Mile High. The second most desirable copy is the Pay Copy because of its historical import, even if it used to be a 9.0 and is now a 9.2. The third most desirable copy is the 9.4 that used that to be a 9.0 and/or 8.5.