Reverend

The same user shows two versions of Snore Comix #2:

Snore Comix #2 Version A

editor unknown.

Toronto, Coach House Press, april 197o. 6oo copies.

2-3/16 x 2-11/16, 36 sheets cream zephyr eggshell, all printed black offset, & 4 sheets plain buff mayfair card (2 at each end) perfectbound into white bond wrappers printed brown & lime (? hard to tell) over phlorescent orange coating.

cover by Jerry Ofo.

12 contributors ID'd:

"Becka", Edd Benton, Marc Chinoy, Maryrose Coleman, Ken Coupland, Ken McRitchie, bpNichol, Jerry Ooo ([ie Ofo], D.M.Price, "Robert", Andrew Robinson, Michael Tims.

Nichol contributes:

i) SCRAPTURES lost sequence (concrete poetry comic – ink, typewriter & letraset – in 13 pp.[4-16])

Snore Comix #2 Version B

editor(s) unknown. Toronto, Coach House Press, april 197o. 6oo copies.

not atall common, a 2-1/4 x 2-3/4 minibook casebound in phlorescent orangered covers with Jerry Ofo's cover graphic.

identified contributors are Edd Benton, Marc Chinoy, Maryrose Coleman, Ken Coupland, Robert Fones, Kenneth McRitchie, bpNichol, Jerry Ofo, D.M.Price, Andrew Robinson, Michael Tims. mostly, the names're left off the works inside

of particular interest in here is Nichol's 13 pp "TOTAL ASSAULT" SCRAPTURES lost sequence, consisting of multi-layered panelscapes with typed, letraset & drawn lettering, the narrative & characters moving between the interreferencing layers. Nichol's admittedly simplistic graphic style probably reaches its greatest sophistication here, especially in that areas of drawing become areas of shaped type.

as well, D.M.Price's also-13pp DEADCAT SPONSORS LEGISLATION is beautifully drawn & lettered, a series of related graphics in continuous-line-stylee drawing mode with interspersed shapes (imagine comics drawn by Freddie Hundtertwasser).

Woah, just came across this page.

Of particular interest is the following:

"(49). IRATA, by Arthur Cravan; 17 may 1994, 5o copies #d in purple rubberstamp rear cover issued as Snore Comix #8; 4-1/4 x 5-1/2, single sheet grey bond folded to 4 pp leaflet, all printed black photocopy with blue rubberstamp addition to front cover. issued as an errata leaf to back lane letters."

So that, Irata, published in 1994, was issued as the eighth issue of Snore Comix?! The plot continues to thicken.

Edit:

Just found this, too: https://openlibrary.org/books/OL23564590M/grOnkbag_L

Of note:

"IRATA arthur cravan [snore Comix: 50 copies]"

P.S. I don't want to derail our discussion, but speaking of Artpolice . . . https://antiq.benjamins.com/#catalog/0/18799

Yikes! If only I had 20,000 euro to plunk down.

Victor,

 

But wouldn`t the need to include items like Mr. Peanut, or other small press items by outsiders/DaDaists/primitives, follow the Kennedy tradition?

I'm fine with stuff like Hairy Who and (even more so) Artpolice . . . "fine arts-ish" I think Kennedy dubbed some of that material. The Hairy Who publications were intended to be catalogues for the artists' works, done up like comic books. And Artpolice had actual comics (Artpolice Comics) mixed in with the stuff that was more along the lines of anthologies of individual works of art. A lot of the Artpolice stuff is quite . . . lewd (I mean this in a good way!), too, which fell in line with underground comix proper.

Animal Mitchell pubs and Morice's Poetry Comics weren't really underground in terms of content, but were certainly inspired by the movement. I'm fine with including those, as well. But still, they're closer in format to traditional comics than something like the Mr. Peanut flip book.

But yes, if Mr. Peanut and The Shoe Journal were intended to continue Snore Comix, I would be inclined include them for that reason alone, or at least mention them, sort of like what Kennedy did with SCASM, which was the second issue of something called ICON (I think both were acronyms, though I'd have to go back and look), which he didn't include because it was more along the lines of a fanzine, or had more text than graphics, etc.

All of this leads me to think of a different question that is probably not helpful, but is at least useful to think about: if Snore Comix did not have the word "comix" in the title, would we even be thinking about the three issues as comix?

That's a very good question and one that I've asked myself many times! I haven't seen the interior of #1, but I think I would allow #2 and #3 in, at least in a peripheral category, such as artist's books. The almighty "Comix" in the title helps immensely, though.

On a similar note, I came across this years ago, thinking I had made a monumental discovery being that it was published in England c. 1965, which would have made it the earliest British underground comic, that is, if it wasn't comprised entirely of text, save the front cover. It turned out to be an amateur publication that covered the folk music scene (Leeds, England) of the day. I even tracked down the publisher who confirmed that no comics were ever done. I should have asked him what inspired the title!

Needless to say, I was horribly disappointed that this wasn't a comic.

OMG. Could it be? About 2 pages of thread devoted to obscure UGCanadiana.

 

Question to Brian and/or Victor: What would be the qualification to label something as part of the "Snore" series?

 

Does the use of "Snore" have to appear within the item? If the answer to you is yes, then there probably only 3 "Snore Comix" in the series.

 

I always took it to mean to be a comic or a comic-like publication from Coach House - with development from a Snore 1 or 2 contributor.

 

None of the pubs were intended to be a conventional comic, but more to do with a statement from 2 collectives of surrealist artists.

 

I have tried contacting CHP for a fuller explanation of Concordia's IDing an eight book series - no response.

 

On Mr. Peanut, here is what Trasov said:

 

"The peanut flip book was intended as part of Snore Comix series. There was never a cover nor any text, just the stapled images of mr. Peanut tap dancing. So it was probably never published as part of Snore Comix"

 

I have tried to contact Jim Lang, but he is back in the US.

A good poet friend of his (living in the same city) was trying to contact him on my behalf - no answer as of yet.

 

As you both probably know, Gilbert, Scia/Zontal and Nichols have all moved on.

I'm usually very forgiving of what should be included in a comprehensive list of alternative and underground comics. With that said, it's difficult for me to regard the Mr. Peanut flip book as such. The same may be said of The Shoe Journal, though I haven't seen its contents--I'm inclined to believe it's a collection of drawings of shoes. Both items are artist's books. As such, I'm not sure that they should be included in a list of comic books. If they truly were a continuation of Snore Comix, I suppose they could be added for that reason, but with an asterisk, explaining their inclusion.

This is similar to Jay Kennedy's inclusion of the minis that were purely poetry (Splat!, Toy Dandruff, etc.), except for their front covers, which were done by underground comix artists.

Don't get me wrong--I love this stuff, and I collect it. The problem is where to draw the line. If artist's books by well, or better, known artists who had some manner of tie to the comix world, if only on the periphery, are included, then why shouldn't similar publications, by lesser known artists, also be included? If they are included, it might be best to create a category for them.

At the end of the day, it's only a problem because it broadens the scope of research required to document all of it. But, the more people working on it, the easier it will be!

I wonder, is this the Mr. Peanut flip book that's pictured on the aforementioned site?

https://vimeo.com/117211678

So, going by what Bronson said, there were three issues of Snore printed (the unnumbered first issue, the perfect bound mini and Bright Things), followed by The Shoe Journal, which, he says, is no longer considered a part of the series.

Maybe the additional three issues he speaks about are Mr. Peanut, Slug Book and The Coach House Nose Who's Who. If this is true, that would account for seven issues in all.

Aha! It's a good thing I keep old emails. Here's one I received from AA Bronson over nine years ago, back in 2007 (I've been obsessing on Snore for a long time!):

From: AA Bronson

To: Victor

Subject: Re: Snore Comix

Date: Friday, November 16, 2007 3:56:29 PM

 

Hi Victor,

 

It might be better to ask Coach House themselves. I have copies in deep storage but not ready at hand. I think that there were three issues published, the third edited and designed by me. I had also planned an additional three issues, none of which were completed at the time. However, the Shoe Journal was printed (not bound), and Art Metropole took it upon themselves to bind the signatures at long last this year... so it now exists, although it is no longer identified as an issue of Snore.

 

best

aa

Going back to the image of Mr. Peanut. There's no title on the front cover, which is a bit alarming. I would hope there would be one in the indicia, that is, if there's even indicia. If there's not, how would a library catalogue that, or a bookseller advertise it? I've run into that problem many times. You get something like: "Untitled artist's book c. 1969" . . .

Also, why was Mr. Peanut printed but never released? Did Trasov say that? I'd be curious how many were done up and where they are now.

This is a bit confusing. Bright Things is dated 1970 on the first page and Snore 2 is dated 1970 on the back cover. I suspect that the author of this piece has the dates wrong, as the evidence available suggests that the Flip Book was published later. In fact, it would have to be if it is part of the Snore Comix line. The only way that 1969 is the correct date is if the Flip Book was not part of Snore Comix. I am inclined to believe what Trasov told Dan until proven otherwise.

I understand what you're saying, but after a decade of researching this stuff, having interviewed hundreds of people (artists, printers, collectors, curators, librarians, etc.), I've been given my fair share of erroneous informatio. Many of the artists have even said it's been forty or fifty years, and their memories are vague, which is completely justified. With that said, considering how confusing the history of this particular title is, I'm not going to assume anything until I see physical proof.

Perhaps I sound jaded, and I am in some ways. I've been on several wild goose chases for things that turned out not to even exist. Poor Farm Comics & Stories #1 is a prime example. As it turned out, the numbering began at #2 to confuse future collectors and historians. It was done as a joke, albeit a cruel one, to the obsessively compulsive individual, such as myself.

I digress. I suppose it would be prudent to email whoever wrote that article that the picture of the Mr. Peanut flip book accompanies, and ask them where they got the publication date of 1969.

There are some inconsistencies with the Concordia page. For example, they have a picture of Dr. Brute listed as Snore 4, but the image is from Bright Things. I had suspected that Mr. Peanut was Snore # 4, but Dan reached out to Trasov who said that his comic was indeed the 8th one in the series.

If it was, indeed, published in 1969, how could it have been #8?

The Shoe Journal just seems too expensive to pull the trigger on, so I don't own a copy. I'm beginning to wonder if "Snore Comix #5" is mentioned anywhere in the publication, or if it's just considered a spiritual predecessor in the Snore series. If that's the case, perhaps the numbering is erroneous and it's really #4. I've been in touch with AA Bronson over the years, so I suppose I could email him for clarification, but he's seemed a bit vague in his correspondence.

There were actually 8 issues of Snore Comix, but at least two were never properly released. Issue # 5, the "Shoe Journal" by George Saia (aka Jorge Zontal from the art collective General Idea) was produced, but buried away until 2007, when Robert Fones procured the remaining 120 copies and had the best 100 copies bound. It was sold through Art Metropole for $150. Ten years later, they still have some for sale: https://artmetropole.com/shop/4367

 

Issue # 6 was Gerry Gilbert's "Slug Book." This was followed by issue # 7, called "Coach House Nose Who's Who" by Jim Lang. An eighth issue, "Mr. Peanut" by Victor Trasov was printed but never released.

 

dannyboycheapyboy and I spent a few days discussing this back and fourth, and neither of us were able to find information about Snore Comix # 4. Has anyone ever seen a copy of # 4?

Just searched around a bit and found this:

http://www.gallerieswest.ca/blogs-and-buzz/artists-books-word-and-image-blend-in-this-irresistible-craf/

If you search the page for "Mr. Peanut," you'll find:

"In 1969, Toronto’s Coach House Books published the Mr. Peanut flip book by artist Vincent Trasov."

There's also a pic of the finished product on the page.

Of course, Snore Comix (#1) was published in 1969, with #2 and #3 coming in the early '70s, so it confuses me to think of this, the flip book, published in 1969, as an issue of Snore Comix.

There were actually 8 issues of Snore Comix, but at least two were never properly released. Issue # 5, the "Shoe Journal" by George Saia (aka Jorge Zontal from the art collective General Idea) was produced, but buried away until 2007, when Robert Fones procured the remaining 120 copies and had the best 100 copies bound. It was sold through Art Metropole for $150. Ten years later, they still have some for sale: https://artmetropole.com/shop/4367

 

Issue # 6 was Gerry Gilbert's "Slug Book." This was followed by issue # 7, called "Coach House Nose Who's Who" by Jim Lang. An eighth issue, "Mr. Peanut" by Victor Trasov was printed but never released.

 

dannyboycheapyboy and I spent a few days discussing this back and fourth, and neither of us were able to find information about Snore Comix # 4. Has anyone ever seen a copy of # 4?

A long time ago, I came across this blurb, which I'm sure you've seen:

"Snore Comix was published by Coach House Press irregularly and in various formats. The first two issues were edited by Jerry Ofo and the third by AA Bronson of General Idea. The various contributors were all names who would surface in the future, including flip book by Vincent Trasov (Mr. Peanut), No. 5 was the Shoe Book by Jorge Zontal of General Idea (still waiting to be bound and distributed), No. 6 was Gerry Gilbert's Slug Book, and No. 7 was The Coach House Nose Who's Who by Jim Lang." --http://ccca.concordia.ca/resources/searches/event_detail.html?languagePref=en&vk=8249

Going by that alone, I would think that Mr. Peanut was the fourth Snore. It's been a long time since I've dug into my research, but I don't recall mention of an eighth issue, though I could be mistaken.

Amazing books Reverend. Wish I had 'em, but, alas, no.

 

I came across #3 at McGill's library in Montreal when I was there, one of two underground comix they had in their collection. Here a couple of pics for anyone who's interested and hasn't seen it before.

 

Is #3 also hard to find?

Not particularly. I'd say that it's uncommon, at best. I've seen many copies come and go over the years.

Sort of leaving the topic of true undergrounds, but here have been a number of mini-comix by Raw Books for sale recently:

 

1) French Postcard (1979)

2) Chinese Landscape (1979)

3) Cow Looking at a Passing train (1978)

 

I never heard of them before. Seems to be "fine art" subject matter.

Does anyone have more info?

How many were produced?

Or know the names of similar mini comix from Raw or if it was a series - besides the Raw magazine inserts.

As for any others, the first three that spring to the top of my mind are:

Every Day Has Its Dog (1979) - Art Spiegelman

Manhattan: 7 Drawings (1978) - Mark Beyer

Work and Turn (1979) - Art Spiegelman

And then there were the Top-Drawer Rubber Stamp Catalogs (three issues in all).

Note: The issue Kennedy listed is #3, subtitled Bright Things.

I've been searching for a copy of Snore Comix (#1) from 1969, not to mention #2 from a year, or two, later. After 10 years of searching, I've come up empty. Here are images of both covers--the #1 was scanned per my request; the #2 was stumbled upon at some point--from libraries who have them in their collections.

Still looking for interior scans or pictures of Goose Lake Gags if anyone has 'em. Thanks!

How amusing, seeing this post! The music-related comix thread (within this thread) just popped in my head moments ago and I wondered, to myself, if anyone had mentioned Goose Lake Gags or Miami Pop Festival Official Program & Map.

There was also Snuk Comix, the ultra-rare comic that Skip Williamson did for the band Wilderness Road, as well as The Pink Floyd (both UK and US editions). These may have been mentioned, but I'm too lazy at present to go back and check.

ROGER MAY (RIP, boy did he dislike Fogel regarding some past deal he didn't get paid on) would just print some more of all of his minis when he needed them. No record of which printing is which. I would suspect anything by him might be a later copy and not original without proof and I doubt there is any.

Roger May died?! I had no idea.

If Jay Kennedy had acknowledged this material in his book, which so many (including myself) regard as the underground comix bible, we may not be having this conversation right now. The reason, I've been told, as to why Kennedy didn't acknowledge it is because it had no artistic merit, or some such thing.

Why, then, did he make exceptions for publications such as Blown Away? Was it because the majority of what the responsible party (Roger May) was doing wasn't "meritless porn," thus giving him a free pass for a fringe publication for the sake of being complete in his documentation? And, if I'm not mistaken, he also listed some Tijuana Bible-inspired minis by Randy Crawford, not to mention Pure Sex Comix by Tom Brinkmann.

It would be nice to see someone set forth and thoroughly document these oft overlooked comix!

I've wanted to do this myself, but with my focus being on British (and other foreign) undergrounds, there just aren't enough hours in the day, as the saying goes.

But, I have a question about a third collecting area that I was thinking of exploring, but do not know too much about - earlier adult/porno comics (pre Eros and 90s).

 

I am aware of things/titles like:

 

1) Tijuana bilbles

2) San Francisco Ball

3) Bizarre Comix (Belier)

4) Gasm magazine

5) Rump magazine

6) Randy Crawford's Nice Day Publications

7) Peanus (Classex Publications)

8) Gwendolyn booklets

9) Sweeter Gwen

10) M'Gurk's Sex Primer

11) adult books from R.E. Inc

12) Penthouse Comix

13) Hustler Comix

 

Could someone suggest other titles/publishers in this vein that I should keep an eye open for? Or suggest a website or book that has an overview of what's out there?

There appear to be a lot of oddball titles out there, aside from those that you mentioned. I haven't actively collected these, nor am I aware of any particular guide that lists them, which is a shame.

Here's one that sold on eBay recently. I had never seen this before and was tempted to bid but forgot.

Heavy Sex Comix:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1972-HEAVY-SEX-COMIX-MENS-ADULT-RISQUE-MAGAZINE-HIGH-GRADE-NUMBER-1-RARE-/381669435382

Some (SOME, I said) of the art in that one is a cut above what is expected in these early sex comics.

There were lots of underground comix goodies published in Italy, too, and a book that covers much of it and is still in print, though in Italian. It's Nuvole Sotterranee: Il Fumetto Underground Italiano Degli Anni Settanta.

https://tictail.com/s/justindiecomics/nuvole-sotterranee-a-cura-di-michele-mordente-e-gianmaria-rizzardi

If Australian underground comix are your thing, two wonderful resources are:

Down Underground Comix by Phil Pinder

https://www.amazon.com/Down-underground-comix-Phil-Pinder/dp/0140062467

The Wild and Woolley Comix Book by Pat Woolley

https://www.amazon.com/Wild-Woolley-Comix-Book/dp/0909331421

The Tabula Rasa website is also interesting, but doesn't really touch upon much from the '70s.

http://www.tabula-rasa.info/AusComics/