midlife crisis comics

Nearly everyone agrees that Stan contributed to Marvel's success. His dialogue changes were a definite asset. But that has nothing to do with the despicable things he did. There is no world where editing and/or changing dialogue makes you the writer of a story. He stole money and credit from the people who actually wrote (and drew) those comics. He didn't create anything. And he certainly didn't create Marvel's characters. And let's be clear--Jack Kirby was the greatest creative force to ever work in comics--prolific, brilliant, and a great person. The idea that Stan Lee created the "mythos" of King Kirby is ridiculous. Kirby's talent spoke for itself--before, during and after he was paired with Lee.

There's no evidence anywhere to suggest Stan plotted anything. And where was his "marketing genius" as Goodman reduced the comic division to barely nothing?

Exactly. Believing anything else indicates a level of either ignorance or denial that's hard to comprehend. Stan has admitted to this in multiple places--in print--during the 60s and 70s. And no one is saying anyone or their memories are 100% reliable. But any human being with a sense of justice and fairness should be outraged by Stan Lee stealing credit from the real creators. It's despicable. And I'm speaking as someone who used to have great esteem for Lee before I learned the truth.

There's no way Lee did anything other than, at most, rewrite some dialogue. You can be damn sure Kirby turned in a finished product. It's truly astonishing that anyone is left who believes the nonsense surrounding Lee. There are multiple examples of Stan himself explaining the "Marvel Method" and stating outright that Kirby, more so than any other creator, needed nothing more from Lee than a thumbs up for what Jack was planning for a story. And, as Lee also recounts, in the case of the Silver Surfer, Jack really didn't need the thumbs up either. Like most, as a kid, I bought the fiction that Stan wrote all those comics. But anyone--to paraphrase George Carlin--past the age of reason who still believes that is ridiculous. Lee also admits, in multiple places, that Ditko would turn in completed stories/art for Spider-Man. Nearly every artist Lee stole credit from is on record somewhere talking about--let's be more clear--the Stan Lee Method: A two minute "story conference" with writer/artists that did not need his help at all, and then changing dialogue on the completed work. The ironic thing is that, at least by the mid-60s, Lee was really good at writing dialogue. He contributed to making those comics better. He was an asset and that should have been enough. But he wanted more money and credit than he was entitled to. A is A. And Lee was a terrible person.