Jaymole

4 minutes ago, Jordysnordy said:

This is all true - but I wrote this after you said you would refuse the box and Pat suggest you file a PP claim so you can hopefully see WHY I asked for it this way.

For the sake of my sanity and @Jaymole's , he has graciously offered to pay me my original shipping  costs and I have asked him to send that amount to Brittany's go fund me page. We have hugged it out

Thank You Jeff. I look forward to talking to you on the phone.

FYI: The original $45 shipping cost I had Jeff take out of my refund, it was the shipping to Randall that I had taken out of the difference That I will donate to Brittany

I will say that Jeff has reached out to my messages and I think we have agreed to forget this whole thing with no hard feelings. I apologized for this mess in my message and asked if I can talk to him on the phone  and apologize there as well. I said in my message from a few days ago that I will be willing to send him the money that we had the misunderstanding over in regards to shipping to Randall. He was nice enough to say it is ok, but I should send donate it to Brittany which I will do.

I apologize to everyone for being so late to respond to this thread. It has only been over the last week or so that I could frequent this forum normally and I had no idea that a thread was created over this.

I am posting here what you told me in the exact words because I do not think it is fair that people are thinking I was trying

"I want the $45.00 sent to me 1st so I'm whole on this. I also want you to send the box to another boardie in the US who is going to take them. Once he has the books I will send you the refund"

"One of you sends me $45 (meaning pat or me) friends or family and then one of you pays for the postage to the other boardie which will be a lot cheaper because he is in the US. Once he has the books safe and sound I will refund your payment to me."

After this you told me your friend will sell them at the con and that you are going to lose hundreds of $, That is when I brought up selling them on the boards and the discount. I NEVER MENTIONED A DISCOUNT BEFORE THIS. I had no idea how I was going to sell them due to my circumstances but I felt this way you would not lose so much money and I could get back most of my money by months end. I really did feel bad.

Again, I see that our distrust of each other led us down a bad path. I do feel really bad about the whole incident and I know that I was responsible at the end for wanting a return due to my friends inability to pay. I never expected this to happen and like I have said I never had a bad experience like this before with anyone on the boards.

One further thing Jeff....I will post our conversation here if you continue to make it look like I was asking for a discount for some nefarious purpose. You know very well, that I told you about that after you said you were now going to lose hundreds of $ because you were sending them to a friend who will sell them at a con. Because of that, I told you if you can give me the discount so the books are under 50% guide, I will sell them on the boards and this way you would not have to lose that much and I would have a better chance of selling them and getting my money back.

Again, I will post our texts here if you continue to make it look like I was trying to get a better deal for another reason

19 minutes ago, Jordysnordy said:

@Jaymole - I hope by now you have re-read our conversation as I will point out a few things you got wrong.

You DID ask for another $100.00 off - not 10%. The Overstreet value all of the books was $1364.00.  and we agreed on $675.00 shipped  - which was a very good price for your friend - and I even tossed in some free books that were not his desired grade range because I was trying to help another Spidey lover out. Shame on me for being extra nice

You said that I don't take returns - an untrue statement. My sales threads have return policies and I have never had an issue with a return - EVER - I have never even had one book returned to me because - if you check my Kudos thread - which I told you to do when you became suspicious of me - you would have seen that I am a pretty good grader and very fair. But I guess you didn't check my long Kudos thread. You needed to email Robert to have him vouch for me . I even suggested that we use Robert as a middle man - meaning I would send him your refund and you send Randall the books and once Randall had the books, Robert would send you the refund. We NEVER discussed a refund policy and numerous times in this epic thread I did state that some of the blame lies on ME for not having discussed this with you - you never brought it up either and I was replying to YOUR want ad. I supplied numerous scans and you did say that your were happy with the scans. (I'm not sure if your friend ever did see them). Plus he didn't want high grade raw books - these were mostly books in the 6.0 to 8.0 range so the prices were not really expensive so I truly didn't think there would be an issue with him not agreeing with the grading. You never even opened the box - it was a case of cold feet.

I DID say that I wanted my $45.00 shipping cost returned to me to before I gave you @ChiSoxFan  information BUT I ONLY said this AFTER you said you would refuse the box and your friend said to file a Paypal claim. Once I heard that nugget, I felt that I would get the box back BUT I would have to refund you the FULL $675.00 and I would be out the $45.00 shipping cost to you. Maybe I'm wrong but since you and your friend backed out of the deal, I felt it was only fair that the both of you be on the hook for my shipping costs to YOU. In my mind it seems very reasonable to me.

I also told you numerous times in our PMs that I was OK losing money on this deal as my board reputation means a lot more to me than the $675.00 but you kept saying in our PMs and in your replies in this thread that you didn't understand why I would lose money on this. And I told it is the principal. Once you asked for another $100.00 off, that was the last straw and I had no problem losing money on this as I wanted to do the right thing. It really irked me that you would keep the books and try and sell them if I took that additional $100.00 off. Randall was kind enough to step and in help out. He didn't ask for 1 penny but I gave him 25% of the proceeds, Brittany gets 50% and me 25% - plus I paid Randall back his shipping costs to @surfcitycomics, who bought all of the books and was happy with the grades.

We did have mix up about some of the shipping costs- and @crassus told me that our messages were a bit confusing at times - Robert read our messages as I wanted an impartial opinion on things. You paid me $675.00 and I netted $649.72. When it came time to refund you I asked how much you wanted back and you said $663.25 and that's what I refunded you. You did pay for shipping to Randall but your friend has paid you for half of that shipping costs so I was not made whole on my original shipping costs to you as I wanted but I wanted to just be done with this so I refunded you the EXACT amount you requested to end this mess.

I truly hope that things are going better for you now as some of this mess was not your fault BUT as the go between in this deal I do feel that you should have stepped up to the plate and taken more responsibility in all of this.

 

 

Hi Jeff

Thank you for responding

First of all I apologize for this whole incident. It came at a very bad time for me, and particularly that month which I will go into more detail with you if you ant in a PM or text, because I am sure people here will not care about what was and still is happening in my life.

Second, I said my friend wanted nice looking books, so I said they needed to be 7.0 or higher. You gave me a list of books and made a package where I would take all the books, even the ones below 7.0. which was a fair deal. I had no idea you threw in extra books because I never opened the package. We also never discussed return policy because I never thought there would be a problem. You showed me a few scans and I said it is fine, from those scans I saw they were graded fairly. I have and never thought that I would need to return the books due to condition. But I also never expected that Pat would not be able to pay me. I never had a problem in the past with him paying, but I also did not know his relationship with his wife was such a pain, and I understand now why he always bought my books in small lots.

Third, I only mentioned the discount because you said you were going to lose hundreds of $ sending them to your friend  who would sell them at a convention. I only mentioned the discount after this fact, not before and you know that! I told you I would sell them on the boards, this way you can see that I was being truthful and not making any money on them. The fact is, I really had no time at all to start selling books due to the events you know about, but I really did feel bad at first that you were now going to lose money. I told you I had to have my money by the end of the month (I had 2 rents to pay that month) which is why this whole thing was a mess for me. When you refused my offer and told me you would rather lose hundreds of $ and then when you would not give me the address until I paypal you $45, that is when my guilt stated eroding away and I thought this does not sound right. "Why does he want to lose hundreds of $", "why won't he let me send them back to him", why is asking for more money when he already has my $675 and could take the $45 off of that"...those were the thoughts running through my head.

As I mentioned, I think we both had a distrust of each other. The only reason I started mentioning the paypal claim is because Pat brought it up as I told him I was stuck with the books now that he cant pay me as you would not accept the return and I am in a bad jam because I would not be able to pay all my bills. I am guessing you were afraid I would make a false claim, and I was afraid that I would not get any of my money back, especially after you said that you want the books shipped somewhere else and wanted more money. I understand now that "pay me $45 or you dont get the address" was because you thought I would make a false claim, but at that time, I thought it came off very scary, and I was freaking out that I would send the books back and have no claim if I did not get my money back.

As I said all along, and still feel, the best thing would have been for me to return the books to you. I would have felt safer that there was a record that I returned them, and it would not have cost you a cent. I know you were angry and upset that I wanted to return the books, and I understand that. But I never expected that it would turn out that this way.

Anyway, I am too late to this thread to change anyone's mind. You know my circumstances, you have our texts, and you know that at no time was I trying to do anything shady. You know I was freaked out because I needed my money and I did not want toi send them to someone else, which is why you asked Robert to step in. It was only because of Robert that I agreed to send them to another address, but honestly, until I got the refund, I was sweating bullets.

12 minutes ago, Number 6 said:

That’s something that kind of jumped out at me: Jaymole repreatedly references how wary he was of shipping the books to this “unknown” member. 

There was a time when Jaymole did a fair bit of selling; and you’ve been a fairly prolific buyer   .

I don’t know you personally and I’ve never done business with you, but I’m at least aware of who you are...if, for no other reason, because you’ve beat me to the punch on a number of books I wanted,   

^{Sorry, but I have not heard of him, and I really don't know most members here as I have not posted much in 2 years.}

^{And again, Jeff refused to give me his details in the beginning unless I paid him $45 more and that is when my fears took hold of me. When he finally gave me his name and address for shipping, I still did not know who he was. If it wasn't for another boardie who I do know, Crassus, I would have sent the books back to Jeff, although I admit I still was very nervous until I got the refund.}

13 minutes ago, ChiSoxFan said:

You keep mentioning the "someone else" that the books were being sent to.  That someone else was me.  I was going to be doing a show, offered to buy some (or all) of the books as inventory so he wouldn't be out on the deal (I had just finished buying a large book from Jeff, and have done multiple deals with him before, and I felt bad about the situation he was in).  Jeff offered to have the books sent to me, with us working out something on how we would settle things with what did and didn't sell (and Jeff was overly generous on what he was offering to do, IMO, even over my protests to the fact).  In the end, after the books arrived to me, and before I did the show (which was actually just this past weekend), another buyer stepped up privately to purchase the entire batch.  Jeff also made a substantial donation of his proceeds to Brittany's GoFundMe, which was an incredibly selfless gesture on his part, to make something good come out of it all.

I'm posting this as a synopisis so you can be caught up, since you've admitted to not reading the thread.  And since you were so "wary" about the transaction, if you had done any checking into Jeff's background or into mine on this board, you would have seen that neither one of us have ever backed out of a deal, tried to pull anything on anyone, or anything even remotely underhanded, and that should have eased your mind.  I'd appreciate if you'd stop using the shipping to me as an excuse for anything you did or did not do regarding this matter, since even the slightest bit of diligence on your part to verify my integrity -- which umpteen people here would easily have vouched for -- would have and should have been sufficient.  As I stated earlier in this thread you haven't read, I don't like the implication -- at all -- that I would have been a party to any sort of shenanigans.

I can't sleep so I will answer your post because I have no idea why you are feeling this way.

All I heard from Jeff in the beginning is that he wanted to send the books to his friend. He did not mention your name or address because he said I had to send him $45 by paypal before he gave it to me. He had my $675 and now wanted $45 more when I told him he can just take the $45 off of the refund. Sorry, that sounded very fishy and was not the right thing to do or say...he sounded like someone from Goodfellas LOL. After that message, I was just trying to avoid not being able to file a paypal claim because i really thought I was dealing with someone who seemed very suspicious. Please ask Jeff to share that message he sent me and my reaction, you will see that it really freaked me out. 

Anyway, thanks to another boardie who I dealt with and is on the up and up, I agreed to send them to his friend and he agreed to take the $45 off of my refund. I only found out your name at the end when he gave me your info and I sent the package. But until then I had no clue who you were and I still don't know who you are as I never dealt with you and I have not been on the boards for months and months.

It doesn't look like there will be any agreement on this unless I send Jeff the $200 or so for the loss he incurred, and I don't feel that that loss was necessary, so going back and forth like this seems to be fruitless.

1 minute ago, comeaux said:

Is he DGarthwaite, is she a model and what about the soundman from Jackyl? 

No, he is just henpecked.

I never met his wife but my friend works with him and he says that he is always much happier that he is single after their talks at work in the morning LOL

Now I am really off to bed.

I am off to bed. I do take responsibility but I am trying to explain what was going through my head at that time.

If this happened today, I would be in a much better position and since Jeff does not take returns, I would have kept the books as I have time to either sell them on the boards and take the loss on some books, or wait out my friend if he paid in installments.

22 minutes ago, Number 6 said:

When you say “sending the books back to him without it costing him anything” is this where you were going to refuse delivery of the package?

Actually, I thought that in the beginning, but a couple of days later found out I could not do that as there would not be a tracking number so I would have paid for the shipping back to him as I needed paypal to see that the package was sent back. Again, I wanted to send the books back to him because he had my money and I told him that I was very wary as if I sent them to someone else, I would have no paypal claim if I did not get my partial refund.

13 minutes ago, comicquant said:

Jeff shared much of the conversation with me while this was going on (because he was uncomfortable where the demands were headed) and I'm almost positive you asked him for $100 off, not 10%.  Which, in this case, was a substantial discount off the total.  You have to look at it from Jeff's perspective.  Ostensibly you were unable to make ends meet so demanded a return, but if he happened to shave another $100 you'd somehow make it work?  After that you made multiple dizzying attempts to change terms that were settled upon which seemed like intentional obfuscation.  Shove all that aside, I still fail to see why you would think it was okay to not accept responsibility for a deal you made with someone else falling through?  It was never Jeff's fault you fronted your friend the money when you didn't have the means to do so.  The entire conversation you and Jeff had should've been between you and your friend.  The moral of the story is, never forfeit your hard-earned credibility because your buddy's wife might get mad.                       

I made the offer after i found out that Jeff would not accept the return and was going to lose hundreds of $ by selling them elsewhere. I felt guilty at that particular time so I asked for the discount so i can get the books at a  price to sell on the boards...you may be right, it may have been $100...in my mind I was thinking around 10%. I thought this way he could see what I was selling and at the price he gave them to me so he will know it was on the up and up and I am not making any money on them.I have sold on the boards and I know that it is hard to sell sell bronze books more than half guide, especially on books below high grade. I really did not have the time or energy to sell on the boards with all that was going on but I did feel bad. When Jeff said he would rather lose the hundreds than do that, and then when he said send him $45 or I don't get the address, that is when I got very wary. I guess I started thinking "Why won't he let me return the books to him".

5 minutes ago, mattn792 said:

That’s some tough sympathy to sell, dude clearly has his life priorities twisted if he’s buying comics to the detriment of his quality of life.  I say it frequently - you can’t live under the comics.

if you knew his financial situation in advance, you never should have tried to broker this deal without cash in hand.

That is the thing, he really was not in a "bad" financial state. His wife found out about the books and she got very upset and he was afraid of taking such a large sum out of their bank account. That is why he always bought my books in small lots and never over $75 in the past, so his wife would not find out. Some wives just don't see comic collecting as being worthwhile...and she thought a vacation and furniture were way more important than comics.

41 minutes ago, skypinkblu said:

I think you need to read Jeff's posts. Once you do that you will see that your statements made him a bit nervous as well. 

As for a return policy. I'm pretty laid back as well and I state I take back books for any reason. However, even I'd be a little upset if someone wanted to return them without even looking at them.

That's not really the intent of these return policies.

Once you read the posts, perhaps you'll comment again, but you'd be doing yourself a disservice if you don't read what he said. 
You may just understand why HE was concerned. 

There are two people in this event. Just two, not 3 (your friend). Your decision was yours, not your friend's. 

In any case, take some time, do some reading and see what someone else's perspective is.

As far as Jeff losing money ...I think it was more of a make lemonade out of lemons thing for him to offer to help someone else in need.   It was not a bad thing at all on his part.  I see it as him trying to do some good and since he got an offer from a great person to help, he was trying to   work that out.

Thanks, I appreciate your responses and perhaps I should read the thread, but I can't tonight as this has really come as a shock and I don't think I can handle it right now.

I understand that returning the books without opening is not normal, but this was an abnormal situation and I was not in the position at the time to keep the books when my friend said he could not pay. I also was not going to lie and say "my friend did not like the books so I would like to return them". I was straight with Jeff at all times.

Like everyone, I have faults, one of them being that I am too easy going and I should have put more pressure on my friend to pay. I asked Jeff if he could talk to my friend but Jeff said no, which I totally understand and agree with as the transaction was between me an him, but I thought that having someone with a stronger force might help. If you can believe it, I actually was feeling bad for my friend as I knew he was in a bad situation with his wife (they were saving for a vacation and new furniture)...even though he just made my situation a real mess!!

I am sorry this happened and I apologize to Jeff that the transaction went bad. I think we both had some distrust of each other which did not help things.

3 minutes ago, DeadOne said:

So just to make everything clear, when all was said and done, you were refunded the full amount of the original purchase minus what it cost Jeff to send the comics to you, and you paid for the comics to be shipped where Jeff requested them to be shipped?

I paid for his shipping to me and was going to send the books back to him without it costing him anything, but everything went bad when he said he would rather lose hundreds of $ than have the books sent back to him. That is what got this into a slightly ugly situation and what got me very nervous.

I paid for the shipping to his friend but I thought we agreed that he would pay that and it would be taken off from the $45 I owe him. I will admit that I was very nervous about doing it and did feel like I was taking a chance because I could not make a paypal claim if I did not get my partial refund. I just wanted to send the books back to him, so at the time I said that if he wants them sent to someone else, he would need to pay that.

Now I am willing to pay that as he did give me the refund. I was so nervous about that. Much like a child having a bad experience which will affect them all their life, I have had bad situations in regards to comics that have scarred me and have made me very skittish when people do things I feel do not make sense.

The only part I do not agree with is paying him hundreds of $ to make up for the money he lost by splitting the money with his friend.

Perhaps there were crossed wires between us. That is why i wanted to speak to Jeff over the phone but he wanted to keep it as texts. I think if we had talked over the phone, we both may have felt more comfortable. At the time, I thought his avoidance about speaking on the phone just added to my suspicions.

3 minutes ago, DeadOne said:

So just to make everything clear, when all was said and done, you were refunded the full amount of the original purchase minus what it cost Jeff to send the comics to you, and you paid for the comics to be shipped where Jeff requested them to be shipped?

I paid for his shipping to me and was going to send the books back to him without it costing him anything, but everything went bad when he said he would rather lose hundreds of $ than have the books sent back to him. That is what got this into a slightly ugly situation and what got me very nervous.

I paid for the shipping to his friend but I thought we agreed that he would pay that and it would be taken off from the $45 I owe him. I will admit that I was very nervous about doing it and did feel like I was taking a chance because I could not make a paypal claim if I did not get my partial refund. I just wanted to send the books back to him, so at the time I said that if he wants them sent to someone else, he would need to pay that.

Now I am willing to pay that as he did give me the refund. I was so nervous about that. Much like a child having a bad experience which will affect them all their life, I have had bad situations in regards to comics that have scarred me and have made me very skittish when people do things I feel do not make sense.

The only part I do not agree with is paying him hundreds of $ to make up for the money he lost by splitting the money with his friend.

Perhaps there were crossed wires between us. That is why i wanted to speak to Jeff over the phone but he wanted to keep it as texts. I think if we had talked over the phone, we both may have felt more comfortable. At the time, I thought his avoidance about speaking on the phone just added to my suspicions.

3 minutes ago, Iceman399 said:

Have you paid Jeff for his shipping to you in full? Have you paid Jeff the return shipping in full? Have you made Jeff whole on any amount he was short from having to sell the books to a new buyer? Well if any of those are a no you haven't made him whole like you said you want him to be. 

The last part is where we disagree and where there will not be a resolution, as it was his choice to split the selling of the books with his friend and lose hundreds of $. He kept commenting to me that because I want to return the books he will lose hundreds of $. I did not understand it then and I do not understand it now...it just did not seem rational. If he had a sales thread for these as he needed money, and this happened, I could understand as I would feel he really needs money and was willing to get anything for them to pay his bills. But it seemed like he was having a tantrum in his messages to me as he said he did not want the books in his house anymore because I need to return them.That is what got me suspicious and if Jeff posted our messages back and forth, you will see that I told him I felt uncomfortable and just wanted to send the books back to him. I kept telling him it would not cost him a Canadian cent....I told him why are you cutting your nose to spite your face?

Again, I feel very bad that this happened but I will not pay someone hundreds of $ for that reason.

11 minutes ago, faster friends said:

Open your sales thread again. I think most people are willing to give a fellow human being another chance.

Everyone makes mistakes in life. 

Thanks. I was actually perplexed by the posts I was getting thread. Now I understand that there was a thread devoted to this transaction I knew nothing about.

Apologies to all for not replying sooner. I really had no idea.

Just now, newshane said:

I think the best thing to do is just apologize and move forward without any other excuses or explanations. You should also consider starting a new profile. Half the board isn't going to go near you with a deal after what they've read here.

Well that is sad, as I never had a problem with anyone here before. I have bought and sold to many people here without a problem.

I will not start a new profile because I am not going to try and hide from anything.

1 minute ago, DeadOne said:

I think making it seem like you were paranoid that you were getting scammed is a bit extreme. Did you think it was a scam when a board member responded to your WTB thread? Did you think it was a scam when you came to an agreed upon price with @Jordysnordy? Did you think it was a scam when you sent the money via PP? Did you think it was a scam when the package actually arrived? I'm guessing no to all those.

A better, more precise way to put it would be that you were becoming desperate to have your money returned to you in a time frame that wouldn't hurt your life.

I suggest putting yourself into Jeff's shoes just a little bit more when it comes suggesting a scam of some sort. He might have taken a winding road in regards to how to handle the books after you refused them, but it's not like he wanted to be out the money any more than you did.
I hope that Jeff has been made fully whole.

Btw, I'm sorry about your family problems, and I see how that could mess a persons mindset, and money being tight only exacerbates that.
I hope things are better, or at least more calm for you now.
Whether people buy it or not, It was good of you to come and post your side on this situation. It's rough, but it's the best way to move forward.  

I understand what you are saying. I guess I did not understand why he told me he was willing to lose all that money by sending it to his friend. And when he said send him $45 or you don't get his address, that is when I got very nervous. I also think his anger towards me made me nervous as well.

I will admit, I do not handle situations well when there is anger. I also have been scammed in the past in reagrds to comics so my past definitely had an influence. I really felt sending the books back to him was the safest situation.

Just now, newshane said:

Maybe that would be a good starting point?

 

Actually, I did not want to as I wanted to give my side of the story without being consciously or subconsciously influenced by anything Jeff or anyone said in this thread.

I have no problem if everyone disagrees with my side of the story. but it is not in reaction to anything anyone said here.

2 minutes ago, ExNihilo said:

It seems a bit unfair for the board (which I believe in early posts in this thread) asked for the opposing side of the story in order to paint a more complete picture.  And now Jaymole expresses his side of the story and is attacked for making excuses.  Did you want both sides of the story or did you not?  It's unfortunate that he didn't speak up sooner as the length of his silence made him look more and more guilty.  But now it's a case of "you're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't."  To call him out on it seems a little disingenuous (considering board members wanted to hear his side).

(EDIT: I don't mean it makes you specifically disingenuous, I just mean the contradictory nature of it as a whole)

Thanks

Again, I was not posting here for months due to my family problems. The only time I posted was making the WTB thread ( I guess someone can check that to see that I am truthful in that regards). I had no idea Jeff started a thread, If I knew I would have responded.

In fact i still have not read this thread or what Jeff said in it, I am just giving my side of the story. People can feel that I am in the wrong, that is fine. I am a very easy going guy like I said, I don't have any hard feelings towards anyone here even if they make snarky comments about my being wrong.

3 minutes ago, Columbia Comics said:

Well at least it was you making the edits and not a friend...that could certainly blow up in your face :P

I have no hard feelings towards my friend, Jeff or anyone here who thinks I am in the wrong for not falling on the sword.

I guess I had better restart this thread when things are more settled.

1 minute ago, Columbia Comics said:

@Jaymole  dude...stop editing every one of your posts.  It makes you look even more guilty.

You eff'ed up...plain and simple.  Fall on the sword and move along.  Making excuses only makes things worse for you.

I edit my posts due to grammar and clearness, not because I am changing and making things up.