BassGMan

1 hour ago, mysterio said:

Sure, but if one is looking to shop for books why not just hit the Torpedo show the Sunday prior and get first crack with none of the expense/hassle?

I'm not familiar with the Torpedo show, but absolutely, if someone is just looking to buy comics and does not care for the rest of the hoopla then I would not recommend ANY big con. 

11 minutes ago, Raze said:

 I have heard horror stories of lines and everything else and I just don’t think that I would want to go or I would not have fun I would pass on San Diego.  Good suggestion.

Getting tickets is very tough, but after having been to San Diego, ECCC, Wonder Con and (the old) Chicago Con, nothing can compare to SDCC. Yes there are long lines for those who choose to stand in them, say get into some popular panel or line up for an exclusive, but I never stand in any line longer than five minutes the entire 4 1/2 day event. Remember, standing in a line anywhere is something people choose to do. Stand in line to get into a 10:00 show open, or walk up at 10:20 and walk right in? Stand in line for hours trying to see some celebrity speak or just not go? Line up at the food stands during lunch time or go in between meals when there are no lines. Yes there are crowds there in some of the popular areas, but if you are going for comics or Artist's Alley, no lines and very little crowds, except maybe at some hot artist's table where 10-15 people are surrounding it. ECCC can also get extremely crowded in some areas of the show, not unlike SDCC, but I just avoid those areas during those times. Remember, people choose to stand in lines, and in most cases they are not ever forced to. Granted, you'll miss out on some events or items this way, but for me at least, I'll pass the big crowd and long lines for all the other things that are easily accessible. Just like navigating Seattle traffic or SDCC (and other) con events, if you time it right and are fine missing some hyped events and items, the entire thing will be easy and comfortable. I'm also not into horror stories, long lines and crowds, and there is no way I'd endure that in SDCC or anywhere, and I never do. Anyway, just some suggestions. A con experience is often what you make of it.

5 hours ago, Raze said:

 I would love to but I’m only gonna have enough to do one of them and I don’t know if I can do New York.

Have you ever thought about SDCC? I know that tickets are almost impossible, but I'm just about to go for the 27th year in a row and there is nothing like it. Granted I haven't been to all the big shows, but this show is the highlight of my year. People complain about long lines, but if you know how to navigate it there are virtually no lines. 

9 hours ago, shortboxed said:

I've been to both C2E2 and ECCC and I travel from out of state. I only went to one once, and the other I've returned to multiple times - ECCC. C2E2 is a great show, though. 

Reasons why I like ECCC:

• Seattle is a gorgeous city. The pacific northwest is stunning. It's right by the water, and you're surrounded by nothing but mountains and trees. If you like the outdoors, spend a couple extra days going on hikes. 
• The convention center is right in the middle of downtown and that is a bonus. If you stay in a downtown hotel, everything is walkable. Lots to see and do in downtown Seattle - great food, bars, nightlife, touristy stuff like Pike Place and Space Needle. 
• The Museum of Pop Culture is amazing and is worth spending an entire day there. 
• Comics - Baltimore, Heroes, and others are better for pure comics but let's not act like there's one comic book dealer in the room - it's a massive con and there are lots of dealers. 
• Artist Alley - ECCC has my favorite artist alley and it's in its own building/floor so it's super convenient. All the creators are in one place. The only other shows that rival it are Baltimore and Heroes. 
• The convention center is massive but it's very well run and organized. 

Cons against ECCC:

• Seeing Seahawks fans everywhere 

Since the OP has been to C2E2 multiple times and never to ECCC, my recommendation is to change things up and explore a new city! Stay a couple extra days and enjoy the city as well, not just the con. 

Now THAT is an accurate review of Seattle. Though I'm not as thrilled with the con though. But yeah, the Artist's Alley is the real deal. 

1 hour ago, Raze said:

@KPR Comics yeah i guess youre right. I had a misconception of where it was in relation to the ocean.

He was wrong. The ocean is literally within walking distance of the convention center where ECCC is held. Maybe a 20 minute walk to all the piers. However this is not the open ocean and you'd need to take a 10-15 minute drive from there to west Seattle to hit the nearest sandy beach, Alki. Technically this is called the Puget Sound, but it is part of the Pacific Ocean. 

27 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

The convention center is in a suburban neighborhood...?

 

No, that is downtown of course. But I was talking about the city as a whole. Above you said Seattle is overrun with homeless. Not at all. There is a homeless problem for sure, as there is in many large US cities. The cost of living here is crazy. And despite homelessness being a big problem in select pockets of the city (which gets a lot of press), most of the city is beautiful and safe. North Seattle is my favorite part of the city, followed by west Seattle. For the most part I avoid downtown, really just because traffic and parking is nuts. 

5 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

Your second statement contradicts your first.

 

Not hardly. There are some areas in Seattle where the homeless have run rampant, but the other 95% of the city is looking great. And I'm not just talking downtown where it is more prevalent in some areas. Seattle is a big city and mostly suburban neighborhoods. 

I live just outside of Seattle and have gone to ECCC every year. The normal big show I go to every year is SDCC, but I went to the Chicago con twice when I think it was just called the Chicago con or something of the sort (before it was C2E2). While that was not SDCC by any means, it was a great show. Don't listen to those who talk about all the homeless in Seattle. I grew up here, and while there are certainly areas where the homeless have overrun the area and there are tents set up along parts of I-5 (and under, among some other places), MOST of the city is beautiful. Traffic is a bit dicey in downtown Seattle, but it is a big city and to be expected. With that said, I would not recommend to anyone to travel to ECCC, and especially not over the Chicago show. With one exception. The artist's alley at ECCC is spectacular, even better than at SDCC. But as far as a good selection of comic book dealers it is pathetic. Mostly toys, novelties and the usual pop culture. I live 20 minutes away from the show, but I find that half a day is good enough for me and I've seen everything. So unless you really enjoy artist's alley, then don't bother. 

On 5/13/2019 at 6:09 PM, Agent 007 said:

Type this into EBAY, I see a lot for sale still.  This is how I purchased mine recently.  Also, cause I have an adult pass, my minor child gets in for free as well.

Two Comic-Con International 4-day Badges in Support of the Comic-Con Museum

I hadn't noticed these before. The two pairs (without PN) have sold between $950 and $6,000! More recently they have been in the $1,000 range. The first legit after market passes I've seen being offered. 

21 hours ago, aardvark88 said:

Is this in Washington,  DC or near Seattle, WA? Please specify in heading.

DC. Literally three seconds in a Google search is all that took. I was hoping for Seattle though, being a local. 

On 10/15/2018 at 3:43 PM, shortboxed said:

Scored Preview Night + 4-Day Badge during pre-reg! Anyone else get lucky?

Not me! I didn't get anything. Looking for two full passes if any exhibitors have any extra to offer. 

10 hours ago, ExNihilo said:

Thanks for the input @shortboxed and @BassGMan.  The other part that gives me pause is the reputation for long lines and a lot of waiting around.  I imagine that is the case for the big Hall H panels, but is it the same with the smaller ones?  For example the Agents of SHIELD or panels related to TV shows?  It sounds like I'll definitely have to find a way to stop by.  The most difficult aspect is probably the fact that I work in finance and July is quarter end which happens to be one of the busiest months of the year for us so if anything I would probably only be able to attend Sat/Sun.

Keep in mind that every line at SDCC is completely voluntary. People often gripe about the lines, but they choose to be in them. My general rule is that if a line is going to take more than 15 minutes for anything, I won't stand in line. Yes that means I miss out on some panels and exclusives, but I'd rather have that time than give it up to see a panel, get an autograph or buy a toy. There was one exception this year. I knew the Hall H presentation of Better Call Saul was not filling up so I decided I'd go to that one. Once there I saw that line to get in wasn't bad at all, but now in Hall H they are using metal detectors and bags are searched just like at the airport. So I dealt with that slow 30 minute line by choice. Next to that the longest line I stood in was 10 minutes for some great fish tacos in the flag pavilion. Some of the other panels fill up and some don't. Yes, most of the popular TV shows fill up but not all. Better Call Saul was only half filled, and my guess is that even though it is a great show, it is probably not prime viewing for an SDCC crowd. In years past I have gone to plenty of Room 20 TV show presentations and with some I walked right in, others I saw a huge line and heard it was filling up, so I passed. There is always something to do or see when you can't see a panel you were interested in. Also, no line at all to get into the show as long as you arrive 20-30 minutes after the open. EVERY LINE at SDCC is completely voluntary. 

10 hours ago, ExNihilo said:

This is going to be an incredibly n00bish/naive post on my part, so I'm just gonna apologize in advance.

I've never been SDCC.  Heck, the only comic con i've been to was Sacramento Comic Con which was just a one day event.  And even then, I only bought some prints, and a blank Infinity Gauntlet cover for sketch purposes.  As a lifelong comic fan, I've always wanted to go because the idea of it sounds like something I would do.  But I've been thinking, is it something i should do?  Most books I buy are from my weekly pull list.  I'm not a GA/SA collector (asides from a handful of key issues).  And I'm not a collectible (read: Funko) collector.  I guess what I'm trying to say is i'm not the big spender type.  It sounds like most of the keys tend to be overpriced anyways.  Now, a few SDCC exclusives appeal to me each year.  And getting sigs and having small interactions with the creators would interest me.  And I love buying up cool prints (simply because OA is out of my price range).  But outside of the major Hall H panels, the smaller ones didn't immediately catch my attention.  Is it worth it to go to SDCC if you don't plan on buying a whole lot?  Do you find there is plenty to do over the full 4 days (5 if you include preview night)?  Are you of the state of mind that someone should go at least once?  Every year?  Or that the show isn't for everyone and can be passed up entirely depending on what a person is looking for?

I just finished my 26th year in a row and I love every day of every year I go. I am also not a big spender. Heck, SDCC to me is really just 4 1/2 days full of cheap impulse buying. I spent more money on T-shirts than anything! Plus a few more silly things for fun. For comics, no way. Outside of buying some cool TPBs or HCs at 50% off cover, or full price at some of the tables like Drawn & Quarterly and Fantagraphics for books that just looked really cool, I'm not buying any actual comics, new or back issues of any kind. The selection is not that great and prices are often terrible. If these dealers price high in order to haggle, sorry I'm just not going to do it. Most of the prices for anything I see are ridiculous, so I keep walking. I did go to a golden age Wonder Woman panel that was fantastic. More about the backstory at the office than the character. So anyways, after that I headed downstairs to look into maybe buying a GA WW book from the period I was after. No way. Terrible selection and terrible prices. In the airport on the way home I bought one on Ebay, fantastic CGC graded book and great price, and earlier today I bought another on Ebay. So no, I would not suggest going to SDCC if you want to buy comics, or at least not anything pricey. You go for everything else that has nothing to do with money. I love Las Vegas too, but I am not a gambler. It is everything else to see and do. I would highly recommend going to SDCC, but you certainly do not need to go to spend money. Just go for fun, but sure, have some cash to take advantage of all the fun things you'll see there that you just have to have, and those things you always wanted that you never knew existed before. Sorry SDCC comic dealers out there, but most of you guys price too high, and that is fine for some buyers, but unless I see a fair price clearly posted on the books you are selling, I'll keep walkin'. 

I can see why there was a problem with this lottery system, and why that in some cases it will save people time, but in other cases it makes the system worse. I see two people above signed up for things they really didn't even want. I imagine some people just signed up for everything to take a shot. And then when winning something they don't even want, then not even showing up to claim it, which is taking a chance away from someone who does really want the item. My guess is there will be a ton of no-shows from people who signed up for something they didn't want. We'll see how it goes. I'm sure the dealers will not have any problem figuring out another way to sell off what was being held out for those who won items they never intended to buy, but some fans who were genuinely interested in an item will have lost a chance due to others who signed up and won but were not even serious.

1 hour ago, shortboxed said:

I like the new lottery system that some vendors are participating in. Nothing more gut-wrenching than waiting in line for hours only to get denied. I'd rather get denied right off the bat and use that time doing something else. 

I'm really bummed that Marvel isn't participating in Hall H this year. 

And of course, I'm looking forward to seeing some insane comics in the dealer booths 

Oh I hear ya'. I like the new system too, and it is better than waiting only to possibly be disappointed when something sells out before you can buy one. With that said, I still expect a madhouse of buyers for each time slot. While this is a better system than before, it would need to be something mighty special for me to want to deal with the chaos even if I did win a time slot. If it goes more smoothly than I expect I'll give it a shot next year. Although I do miss out on a few events and items by not waiting or scrambling through crowds, it does make for a more pleasant con overall. 

Are you guys excited? I sure am. It has been very quiet around here. I was however a bit disappointed with the programming this year. Very little that interested me and much fewer big events than in past years. Also nothing that I found interesting in the new exclusives and autographs lottery system that is new this year. Not that I wouldn't buy some cool exclusives, but even if winning a certain time slot to go in and buy an exclusive or get some autos, it is still going to be crazy with everyone piling in at those specific times. As usual, I make it a policy to never stand in line for more than 10 minutes anywhere at SDCC, which is quite easy to do. 

39 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

I would be very careful about giving any credence to the opinions of "Stu Cathell", who has been banned from the CGC board for a decade and a half, and who has made hundreds of user names to harass people here, all of which have also been banned, simply because he hates CGC.

I am not "playing with words." I am making counterarguments to your statements that I hope are reasonable and persuasive, just as you are doing. Nothing more, nothing less. If you think you have a valid counterargument, you should make it. Discussing me, personally, is not relevant. It would be nice if you addressed my specific points, and apologized for saying my bringing 150 books was "terrible" and "selfish", when you admittedly don't know anything about the program or how it works, but I'm not holding my breath

I agree with you...you are being clear with your overall message, which I have rebutted. Others can come to their own conclusions.

I don't know Stu, or you, so I am just winging it in that respect. Although I don't know the exact situation in what you are dealing with, with your 150 books, I do know, based on my experience, how it is having been through the process many, many times standing in line with others waiting to get books signed. If there is some new system where you make appointments for an allotted amount of time, and others with one or just a few books are not waiting behind someone with 20, 50 or 150 books, then fine. but if lines are like I remember them, then yeah, those guys that try to get dozens and dozens of books signed while others wait, I believe are being rude and selfish. Terrible may be too strong of a word to use, it is not evil, just rude. But maybe some other system is being used now, and if so I am unaware. Anyway, this is just one detail of many regarding this situation. I guess I am just trying to be neutral. I don't favor the fan over the creator. I can see how both the innocent fan and the creator can get the shaft in these scenarios. 

RockMyAmadeus, while I give you very high marks for your debate skills, I still see, as WooYeah mentioned in this very thread (I see that mention was erased but is still captured in his quote above in your post), how you are playing with words and creating your own conclusions/arguments in order to make a point and swing "the jury" to your side. Are you an attorney? You have the skills of one. That is great for a debate, and if I was an attorney I may use the same skills. However, this is not a court of law and we are just talking comics, sigs, convention and artist policies in what I consider casual conversation. While I may not be putting in alot of time to perfectly state my words in a way that you cannot use against me, I think I am being pretty clear in my overall message. It is pretty simple really. Creators don't like being used by dealers in such a way as we have been discussing. Some don't care. Others take a stand. I support those who take a stand to avoid being taken advantage of. Heck, I'm fine with those who don't as well. Go ahead, take your 150 books to the next con and hopefully you can have them all signed. Good luck to ya'! 

15 minutes ago, WooYeah said:

Oh, then you missed him when he did the show at the Space Needle in 2002. He was still signing for free then 

Dang, he was in Seattle? I totally missed that. I would have definitely been there, as I was much more the EC fan than I was the small time dealer trying to sell signed EC Comics. Yeah, it was 2000 when he signed all my books, and then I think 2005 when he started charging at SDCC. He died in 2014. 

1 hour ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

Unnecessarily contentious.

Not in dispute, and not relevant. This entire discussion is about creators charging a higher price for books that are going to be slabbed.

People who are not getting their books graded are not being charged a surcharge, which is the entire point of this discussion.

I'm glad that you've moved your position from "the seller is going to make money on it" to "sometimes the seller...will make a profit..." However, you're still making the same mistake: the "profit" isn't on the sig. The profit...if any...is derived from the book, and its condition. A signature CAN add value to a book...and, on the right books, generally does. But they must be the right books. I can't get any beat up copy of Detective #577 signed by McFarlane, have it come back a CGC 4.5, and expect to "profit." 

Again...according to whom? You? Have you surveyed these creators and asked them? Let's set aside the argument that there's not always "money to be made" from the CGC Signature Series program. Again: so it's perfectly ok for publishers, editors, printers, executives, distributors, retailers, and yes, even con organizers, to profit off of creators, and for a whole lot more of the creators' time and effort than a simple signature, but the person who wants to get their book signed AND graded, on the CHANCE that they MIGHT "sell at a profit"...well, no, that just won't do? 

And your entire argument rests on the assumption that EVERYONE getting their books slabbed are doing it to sell. Are you aware that there are large numbers of people, who get large numbers of books signed, that ARE NOT for sale...?

You are clearly, as you admit above, not at all familiar with this market, or how it works.

No one is denying that people "absolutely do go at creators with multiple books"....and? That justifies charging a HIGHER price, why...? Those people are the ones taking ALL of the risk, but they have to pay a higher price, because they MIGHT sell the books...? 

Again: publishers, editors, printers, distributors, retailers, con organizers...all of these people are doing the exact same thing, "using" the creators to "make money" (AND VICE VERSA!)

, except they are SOLELY doing it "for the money"...but that's perfectly ok...?

You're making an argument from emotion, not reason.

I don't think you're paying very close attention, here. The creators being discussed ARE NOT SIGNING FOR FREE.

You understand that there is MONEY being given to the creators IN EXCHANGE for their signatures, right...?

The last time I had Rob Liefeld sign any of my books, he charged me $20 each for 7 books. For literally 30 seconds worth of work, he made $140, cash. AND, I'd be willing to bet, dollars to donuts, that he didn't report that income. That's $16,800 an hour just to sign books. And it's a LOT MORE now than it was in 2013, AND he was charging that price to everyone.

And it doesn't matter to me, because that's none of my business. But your argument is utterly erroneous if you think this is a "one-sided profit"...and no, it's NOT "regardless of if this profit is ever actualized." THAT is ridiculous. If it's not "actualized", it's not "profit."

This is no different from any other transaction: you offer your services for a price, someone pays you, you execute the service, transaction finished.

In other words...the creator charges a HIGHER price for the exact same service, taking absolutely none of the risk involved, but expecting a cut of a reward that may not even exist.

These arguments have been made 1,000 times, including by you, and they don't hold water. People are being charged a higher price for the exact same service, which is discrimination, no matter how you may wish to pretty up the language to make it seem not so.

And don't imagine that buyers aren't getting fed up with this discriminatory practice. They most certainly are. What you advocate HURTS creators, as all such "well intended" programs do, it doesn't help them. Why? Because I had over 150 books, all ready, to be signed by a creator at ACE. I ended up with a grand total of SEVEN books signed for CGC, the seven that we determined were the ones that were "worth it" to get signed.

It hurts us, because we don't get the books that we want done FOR US to KEEP. It hurts us, because we don't get the additional books to SELL to PAY FOR these signatures and books we want to KEEP.

It hurts CGC because they DO NOT GET 150 books that they otherwise WOULD have gotten to grade. That's nearly $4,000 worth of submissions that will NEVER HAPPEN until and unless these books get signed. CGC will NEVER EVER see those books unsigned. 

And, it hurts the creator because, instead of getting perhaps $1500 for an hour's worth of work, that creator got NOTHING for those books. Zero, zip, nada. Sure, he made $140 on the books we felt were even worth the discriminatory price (remember: addicts.) But he could have made ten times that amount, with very little effort on his part.

The creator could have made an EASY $1500 on those books...but there's no way I'm going to pay him $3,000 for his signatures, and end up throwing good money after bad.

So...explain to me, then, how this is "mutually beneficial to both parties" again....?

No. THAT is an argument from emotion, not reason. No one is "being taken advantage of"...that's a false claim. Creators are, and should be, free to charge whatever they feel the market will bear for their services. But the creator didn't buy my book. He didn't preserve it. He didn't take care of it. He didn't prepare it for signing. He didn't fill out the paperwork for CGC. He didn't submit it, or send it in. He took none of the risk that is 95-99.996% of the value of any book...why would he expect to get any of the reward...? And why should he then be able to demand to know what I intend to do with my property, and charge me a different, higher price, based on my answer...?

That's not how life works.

I would highly recommend involving yourself in the program before speaking out about it.

There are alot of different variables here for sure. And each one could be discussed, though what I am talking about are general policies, and how I understand and can agree with why some creators charge more for some services, based on perceived intent of the fan/dealer bringing in books for sigs. One thing for sure, I do feel bad for the fan that just wants his or her own book signed. Really this is probably the majority of the attendees standing in line waiting for a sig. But because there are certainly some that have taken advantage of these creators and used them in order to make a buck for themselves, I understand why some have adapted these polices. More power to them. 

Quick example using myself as the fan/dealer. Back in 2000 when Al Feldstein (of EC Comics fame) came to SDCC for appearances, he also was set up to do signatures a few times during the show. This had been advertised (EC reunion going on) so I knew to come prepared. I loaded up my suitcase with a ton of $2 EC reprints. I went through his line several times and each time had him sign 8-10 books, which he did gladly for free. I also had him sign a few originals! Anyway, with those reprints, I took them home and sold them on Ebay for $10-15 a pop. I also included a photo of him signing at the con to add to the authenticity. So we are not talking big bucks here, but making a few extra bucks on each book helped to feed my hobby. A few years later Feldstein came back for another signing and appearance at SDCC. This time he was charging $20 per signature. I still had the chance to talk with him for a bit but did not purchase a single signature from him. He shut my little operation down, as he should have. There are alot of guys out there like me, like I was back then. Gaming the system.

Yes, I don't follow every aspect of the system and do not follow how much is realized for CGC's competitors signed slabbed books, but I do follow quite a lot and have been in this hobby for a long time, as a fan, con dealer, comic store owner, and small time Ebay dealer for almost 20 years. There is actually no emotion here with my opinions on the matter. I don't care personally as I'm not involved. I really don't care about sigs anymore as the cost and time to wait in line is not worth it for me (though it used to be). I am using all reason, fairness and an understanding of where both the creators are coming from, as well as the dealers trying to make a buck off a creator and the innocent fan. 

Regarding the one-sided profit comment I made, again you are missing the point. No doubt that these guys are making good money for charging for a sig. This is what they charge you with the understanding that they are charging a fan for a signature on a book, NOT what they are charging a dealer for a book to resale. Had it not been for these dealers gaming the system (like I did with my Feldstein example) then odds are you may not be charged that $20 to begin with, or at least you'd be charged less. Though I do not know for sure, I think there is a pretty good chance that some of these creators have jacked the signature prices up KNOWING that some of these people will sell their signed books, and this is one way for the creator to make a buck for himself too off of this practice. 

Yes, lots of variables. We can each rattle off all kinds of scenarios and personal examples. My whole point is just to say that I understand and can agree with the steps some of these creators have taken in order to not be taken advantage of. Good for them. Sorry for the fan that just wants a signed book for their personal collection. 

Geez, you brought 150 books to be signed by one (or maybe it was several) creators? That is terrible. And you find that to be OK? For something like a that maybe a private meeting on the side could be arranged. Even if you had all those books signed, what about all the little guys behind you that wanted their one book signed? I'll admit I was terrible a few times when I brought up a small pile to be signed by a creator in the past. Sometimes other fans even looked at me like what in the hell am I doing? Selfish is what I call that, and I've had selfish moments in the past too so I understand it. 

13 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

Creators don't want to be used to make other people money...?

Someone better tell them that publishers, distributors, printers, retailers, and yes, even con promoters, are using them to make money...and worse, they agree to it.

And if you work for someone else, your employer is using you to make money. How do you feel about that...?

McFarlane and similar know that if their signature is authenticated on a book, then the seller is going to make money on it? How do you know that? 

Here's hundreds of examples that disprove that claim:

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=stan+lee+cgc+ss&_sacat=0&LH_Sold=1&LH_Complete=1&_sop=15

Stan Lee's current signature cost, as I understand, is $150. Slabbing for Sig Series is a minimum of $30, and generally closer to $40, per books. eBay takes 10%. Paypal takes 3% if you're domestic.

That means, at a minimum, best case scenario, you have to sell a book for roughly $210 to break even...and that counts your time and labor...and the value of the book itself...at $0.

But there are over 500 listings that sold at a loss...and that's just considering the last couple of months' listings on eBay.

How about McFarlane...?

McFarlane charges, as I understand it, $50 a signature for graded books.

That means, with all costs, the book has to sell for $110 or so just to break even...again, not including your time, labor, or the value of the book.

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2334524.m570.l1313.TR2.TRC1.A0.H0.Xmcfarlane+cgc+ss.TRS0.TSS0&_nkw=mcfarlane+cgc+ss&_sacat=0&LH_TitleDesc=0&_sop=15&_osacat=0&_odkw=stan+lee+cgc+ss&LH_Complete=1&LH_Sold=1

There's a couple dozen sold listings where the sellers sold at a loss.

So, how is it that McFarlane and similar knows that "...if their signature is authenticated on a book, then the seller is going to make money on it."...?

The "money" that someone "makes" depends mostly on the following:

1. What the book is (is it Infinity, Inc #28? Is it Amazing Spiderman #300?)

2. The condition the book is in (is it a 6.5? is it a 9.8?)

Those two factors make up 95-99.9% of the value of ALL graded books, sig series or not. A signature added to a book that doesn't "make the grade" is a loss.

But...the creators don't have anything to do with purchasing that particular copy...or preserving that particular copy...or preparing that particular copy...or sending that particular copy in for grading...or anything else to do with that copy. So, the owner of the book takes all the risk...but the creator somehow deserves some of the reward, while taking NO risk...?

How does that work, again...?

And...again...how is it anyone's business what someone else does with their property? 

If you're going to count other people's money, you ought to be prepared to crunch the numbers. The argument you've made doesn't fly.

You clearly don't get it. First off, not everyone that gets a book signed in order to sell is going to get it graded first. Some sell the book signed and ungraded. Many do. Second of all, though I agree that sometimes economically, considering the expense of the cost of grading, it is going to negate any profit on the book, but sometimes the seller most definitely will make a profit on the sig. What matters here is intent, not in the end run if the seller actually makes a few bucks or not. If you want a sig for yourself, that is why most of these creators are there. To meet their fans and give them a sig or memento. They are not there in order for you to use them to make money for yourself, and we both know that many absolutely do go at creators with multiple books, or whatever they can get away with, in order to then sell at a profit. Also, your first statement is ridiculous. Totally out of touch, unless you are just trying to be funny. The creators are paid to do a job, their cog in the wheel, then the other cogs (publishers, distributors, printers, etc) make their cut as well. They all use each other to make a living. They know that going in. Same if the book is self published. That is completely different than a one-sided profit that you are talking about (regardless of if this profit is ever actualized) by a fan going in to get a sig with the intention of selling it for a profit. In that case, a mutually beneficial deal where more is paid to the artist for a book that is intended for resale would be beneficial to both. THAT would be fair. These creators do not want to be taken advantage of and I don't blame them. I respect these policies by McFarlane and others. 

23 minutes ago, Logan510 said:

From my understanding, those books generally do not do well in the aftermarket.

I was unaware of that as I don't follow prices. But at least it is an option for those with an unauthorized signature. 

36 minutes ago, Logan510 said:

Somehow I don't think creators are going to take kindly to being told how much they can charge for their signature or that they're not allowed to have tiered pricing 

 

I find nothing wrong with this practice as well. Creators do not want to be used to make other people money. McFarlane and similar know that if their signature is authenticated on a book, then the seller is going to make money on it. Some artists have a problem with this and I can understand why. They are being used to make someone else money. These artists will sign a book for you, but not a book for you to make money on selling to someone else. Others don't care, but I definitely understand the sentiment for those creators who feel this way. With that said, not sure if I can name CGC competitors here, but there is another respected grading service that will authenticate signatures in-house, without any witnessing. If you get your book signed legitimately, even without being witnessed, send it in to them and they'll have their professional signature authenticators verify and label the book accordingly. 

18 hours ago, stephenshamus12 said:

Hey BassGMan - I respectfully disagree. This was not sold or marketed as a comic book show (ala the other Seattle event). This was a superhero event with premium VIP tickets geared towards a whole new audience (as has been the case with all our events). It's a completely new event, and quite frankly, had you come expecting the number of booths and tables that you've become accustomed to at ECCC, you would have been disappointed and then calling us out on these boards that we had only a few comic dealers and 60 Illustrators. We were extremely pleased with our results, and how can you not be?? We doubled the largest halls that exist in the comics industry with our Q&A Panels. We had a total sellout of 3-Day and Saturday passes and a near sellout of Sunday. With the exception of 2 Artists/Celebs, we completely sold out of all Ops and Autographs to the extent that Tom Holland and Tom Hiddleston even added a 3rd day. ACE Events are catering to a new audience, and we have found our place. We also got global pickup on the Spider-Man panels in all major news outlets. Perhaps you will try ACE in the future, perhaps not, but the measure of a successful event is number of tickets sold, did the fans get their ops/autos, and did people have fun?? The answer is yes. The dealers did extraordinarily well, as I had multiple vendors tell me this was THEIR BEST SHOW EVER! Same for celebs and artists. We had over 14,000 images so far posted on Instagram just from this event. Anyway, add us to IG or Facebook and you can't miss us!! -Stephen

P.S. - Feel free to reach out to our exhibitors or check the hashtag #acecomiccon on IG and you will see what I mean

Apparently wherever you marketed your show it seemed to work out, so mission accomplished, I was just surprised that as a regular con attendee that I did not see any advertising anywhere. Nor any media or fans talking about it. But if you were marketing to a different target audience than I had assumed, that would be why. You are however very wrong in that I would be disappointed in the amount of comic booths and illustrators. Though I'm here on a CGC board I buy very few comics these days and could care less about illustrators or artists anywhere. I go to the cons for fun and media/pop culture, not to buy comic books. Surely I'll attend one of your local Seattle area shows in the future if I hear about it at least a few days in advance. 

12 hours ago, stephenshamus12 said:

So we sold out of 3-Day passes and Saturday Passes. The Saturday Civil War panel had 12,000 people and was covered on Deadline three times due to Tom Holland announcing the title to Spider-Man 2. Sunday was a near sell out as well. The Flash panel had 8000 people and the Scarlet Witch/Vision panel had 7000 people. Even the close of Sunday Loki panel had 5000 people. I'm sorry you missed out, but the place was packed, ask any of our dealers or Artists. Thanks!! 

Perhaps so. Glad you did well, but keep in mind alot of potential customers never even heard of this thing. I was shocked personally. ECCC was advertised everywhere and there was quite a bit of talk about it on social media. Granted that is a more established con and I don't expect equal coverage. With this? ONE person on my feed even mentioned it. ECCC dozens. Apparently you were able to get word out to enough people to do well, but there would have been even more demand, and likely sold out on all days had marketing and promo been better. I do realize that more promo is expensive and it is always a gamble with how much of the budget should be put into that.