ftlepore

You're welcome to avoid any healthy discussion that you don't enjoy.

12 minutes ago, The Lions Den said:

What I'm saying is that any change in the grading environment takes a certain amount of adjustment and could lead to a slight variance in page quality designation. It's a possibility, not a certainty. And it's to CGC's credit that even under adverse conditions they can still deliver outstanding results. They should be commended for offering a service such as onsite grading even though there's a ton of extra work involved...

But they aren't delivering outstanding results. That's the entire point of this thread. They're delivering mixed results depending on grader, year, and environment, apparently. If people have to literally stop submitting books to CGC during certain time periods due to fluctuations in grading, the quality is not consistent. I think most people here on the boards who have been around long enough can grade a book without 2 grade points (grading a 7.0 between a 6.0 and a 8.0, for example), so to imply CGC is doing outstanding work because they also get it within this range, rather than on the dot every time which is their singular job, feels incorrect is not really the standard that myself, or many others I would assume by this thread, are looking for.

6 minutes ago, theCapraAegagrus said:

Why are you conflating "informative" with "condescending"?

There already are alternatives. I've seen these "lose credibility" claims for years and it hasn't ever happened. You're not going to manipulate CGC into agreeing with your opinion when you're paying for theirs.

Paper ages. Doesn't matter if it's 2019, 2020, 2031, or 2045. One of those years the PQ was going to be judged lower than what it was years prior.

Not really conflating anything, thanks, but I guess also presuming your post is "informative" is also a really weird thing to do. If you're seriously alleging that "there's also a thing that happens to pages of paper. Most of us call it "aging" and "Pro Tip" weren't meant to be condescending, then I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. For sure man, books age. Literally no one is disagreeing with you. But you're really oversimplifying for some reason, and not looking at the big picture, where four books that were graded within the last couple years as OW/W came back C/OW. Either all four of these books, in slabs, miraculously aged to cream in one year while being stored in boxes, or it's a grading issue that many others have experienced in this very thread. Not sure why we're leaning toward the first option here.

Oddly condescending response, but okay.

If CGC stops caring about the market and their effect on it, then people are going to find alternatives. That's pretty simple. Once the company that EVERYONE uses as the market standard stops caring about the market, they're going to lose credibility and that's bad for business.

I guess 2019 alone was a terrible year for this "aging" you mentioned, since that's when multiple of these 70 year old books "aged." I guess I was just coincidentally right on the cusp and 2020 was just The Year of Cream. 🤔

31 minutes ago, The Lions Den said:

You may be surprised at how different it can be depending upon the location and type of light. It's one of the things that makes grading books a lot more difficult than most people think...

I think the main point here is that, when the industry is relying on consistency and quality, there should be consist light quality whenever you're grading books. I can't even imagine CGC grading books in multiple different environments with varying light quality. That seems extremely lazy and unprofessional.

I bit the bullet and wrote CGC a letter with my thoughts and complaints. At the end of the day, I'm still paying over $500 for a service that I don't feel the quality control was adequate on. I gave a good amount of examples and comparisons, so we'll see what they say.

So here's another interesting comparison. The 1st book is ASM #40. I sent this in to get CPR'd, and it didn't pass prescreen, so it was sent back. The 2nd book is the Avengers #8 that was just CPR'd and regraded at a lower grade (7.5 down to 7.0, and OW/W pages down to C/OW pages); you can see this one in my earlier photos.

The ASM looks significantly worse than the Avengers copy, in terms of blemishes, issues, and coloration. The back is actually pretty "sooty" for lack of a better term. Yet, it's a grade higher and has a better page quality. In addition, I checked the details, and it was just recently graded on 10/25/2019, or barely a year ago, the same as a good number of the other books I submitted. These aren't books that were graded back in 2011 and had years to sit around and discolor. Additionally, it seems to me that the Avengers pages look significantly crisper and definitely not cream.

My biggest issue is that I spent over $550 to get these nine books graded and shipped, only to have them go down in grade, and I'm almost at a point where I feel like this was a CGC error and I want to reach out to them about it. I just doubt it would do anything. I know everyone is saying to wait and resubmit when they're back to normal, but that's still another $550 process.

Great points, but how do we get them to notice is what I'm wondering. And how would we even know when a change took place?

That book looks pristine, and way higher than a 7.0. That definitely makes me a little suspicious of the current grades being handed out.

18 minutes ago, TC33 said:

Who is to say that their grading is not closer to the market, dealer and collector expected standards?  Perhaps its CGC that should be loosening their grades which especially appears the case from their insanely harsh grading this past year or so.   They are a bit smaller company so with less graders it does seem like they have fewer huge swings like two full grade lower CGC CPR submissions like I have personally experienced and see has happened to many here also over the past year.  It would be nice if there was a CGC published a general grading standard and especially for that standard to not appear to swing so widely up or down every couple years, just keep it the same, consistency is the key!  

I actually agree with this. As I said, if the copy of FF #52 in question was graded a 6.5 last year through CGC, then all of a sudden the very next year the same exact book goes down in page and grade quality without being touched, that's going to invalidate A LOT of slabbed book grades. That seems terrible for the market. "Oh, it's a Hulk #181 7.5? Is it an old 7.5 or a new 7.5? Is it really closer to a 6.5? Who knows!" The majority of people buying books aren't professional graders, and the entire point of slabbing books is to have a uniform grade that we can reference and trust. For CGC to change the standard this drastically, it makes thousands, if not millions of grades suspect. If we're still forced to meticulously grade the books within the slab ourselves, it kind of defeats the purpose.

50 minutes ago, zosocane said:

No, you don't see CBCS holders.  

There are literally no CBCS holders in the pic. I have old CBCS labels on top of the CGC graded books, if that's what you're referring to. Regardless, all the books were prescreened to improve in grade, and in my experience, there has not been that large of a difference in their grading. The fact that there are instances of both labels going down and both labels grading the same illustrates that.

All of the books in the pictures above were graded by CGC.

I'll go ahead and show what we're talking about here, since the books with their new grades and the labels from their previous grades seem like really strong evidence. These are nine books I sent in to get CPR'd along with their results. At least two of these were previously graded LAST YEAR by CGC. The new current slabs can be seen on the top, while the label they previously had before CPR is on the bottom.

As one of the catalysts for this post, I'm also curious. I had multiple books that were graded in 2019 (by CGC), not even a year ago, come back a grade down and the pages went from OW/W to C/OW after a press and clean.

I really think if this is a CGC issue, where the standard is raised and books are being graded more strictly, it kind of changes the entire market, where literally every book that was previously graded before 2019 has an inflated grade according to the new scale. Like, is it possible the grader just had a bad day?

Got the book today and took a bunch more pics. The stain is actually much less noticeable in person and seems to show up more in pics. Most of the wear seems to be on the spine. The rest of the cover is pretty clean. The back looks lightly speckled with...dirt? I'm not sure. I was hoping that might come out with dry cleaning.

I still have 30 days to return the book through eBay, since the seller accepts returns.

Another 7.0 just sold Buy-It-Now for $3344 on eBay, so I think the eBay sales are going for a bit more than wherever else GPA is pulling from.

For sure, but a) I'm pretty sure I could sell a 6.5 for close to what they've been going for on eBay recently, and b) if you know where I could find a 7.0 for $2800, definitely let me know.

It should be the 5.5 that sold on eBay, and that's not entirely true. The last 5.5s before this one sold for $2811, and two best offers were accepted for below $2700. I don't think that's too far off of the market price for a 5.5, and this one had the press/clean potential for me.

I also won the recent 7.0 that sold for $3100, but the seller cancelled the order three minutes after the auction ended (which sucked, and I assume was because he didn't get the price he wanted; great way to avoid the cost of putting a reserve on the auction). Meanwhile, two recent 6.5s have gone for $3500 and $3395, so the prices are kind of all over.

Either way, I didn't get it to flip it. I was looking for a copy of 181, and this felt like a good opportunity to see if it could be improved, and I felt like the price for a 5.5 was in line with previous copies in the past couple months.

I also don't see the crease on the front cover, so I assume it doesn't break color?

This would be ridiculous. The only real issue I'm concerned with is the stain on the top back cover, but I don't know how irreparable that is.

Hey guys! Just picked up this copy of Hulk 181. According to CGC it was graded way back in 2002. I know there's a belief that grading was stricter back then, so I was going to get the book pressed, dry cleaned, and resubmitted. I think even without doing so it presents better than a 5.5.

Just curious what you guys think. Does it look better than a 5.5? If so, where do you see this landing? I think the book presents beautifully.

Thanks!

Upon further inspection, it seems the indent goes through the book, many pages deep. Also, the staples aren't flush, which I've never seen before and I'm not sure is an issue.

Haha, overestimating damage was also a concern, since it's such a close up. Here a couple additional shots for scale.

Just received this copy today. Was looking to get it graded. Auction listed it as NM/9.6+ never read, but there's a slight corner issue that concerns me. I was going to have it pressed before grading for good measure, but I'm wondering if this would be capable of a 9.8. Let me know what you guys think? The rest of the book is in great shape. The images are all of the same upper left corner, front and back.

Just picked up a copy of Venom #3 (3rd Print), and the copy looks great. There are just a few minor issues I'm seeing along with edges and I'm wondering if they would knock the book down from 9.8. I'm not sure if any would qualify as manufacturer defects. The issues on the front could only be seen through my phone when I was zooming in; I attached larger front photos to give an idea of how small they are.

If you guys could let me know what you think, I'd appreciate it!