Zanga

6 hours ago, The Voord said:

You should ask for a refund and return the 'artwork' to the seller.  No doubt in my mind whatsoever that it's a fake.

6 hours ago, Bird said:

He is right. If it was a gallery especially. The amount of time that has passed should not matter.

2 hours ago, artdealer said:

Well, you still don’t have a piece of Marvel art, but rather a fan drawing of a Marvel character. This was never printed, nor is it even an unpublished drawing. 

Some fanboy, at some point in time, sat down and did this terrible drawing. Someone threw it under Stan’s nose to sign. 

What “reputable art gallery” did you purchase this from?

Value = what ever the overpriced signature cost. 

You should get a refund as you have been duped. 

Mitch Itkowitz/Graphic Collectibles 

Yeah I’m going to enquire as to whether I can return it. I fully am aware that stan’s signature is brand new. Which is fine. But the heft of the price is on the fact that it’s an original piece of art. Which I’ve always doubted.

Will keep you guys updated. 

On 4/4/2018 at 11:56 PM, The Voord said:

Hopefully, a side-by-side comparison might work better for Zanga to judge the differences and I'd be interested in hearing his feedback as to whether or not. he still considers his art to be almost identical to Ditko's original?

Thanks for all the comments everyone. 

I’ve been quiet for a spell as this thread has given me much food for thought. 

It pains me to say it but this piece did cost me a lot. And as some of the comments allude I was led to believe it was an original. Not nice to have something that you doubt on a wall. I was very excited to have an original piece from one of the greats that shaped my childhood. 

Not sure what to do with this going forward because unless I open the frame I can’t check under the whiteout. 

Again thank you all for teaching me more about this subject and your valuable insights on this piece. Better to know than not know eh?

6 hours ago, ESeffinga said:

FWIW, the piece looks legitimately old. Which is to say, it would be incredibly difficult (and unexpected) to see someone fake the aging of the piece as convincingly as this is, with the level of marker color bleed, etc.

IMO it’d take more skill to fake this level of aging if, than to draw a less shaken line in the art itself.

To me, it says this may well be an old fan drawing, but the execution of it reeks of fan art.

Also, that whiteout could very well be a couple decades old. It wouldn’t surprise me if it had been done when the paper was still relatively white and been much more inconspicuous. It’s only been in the intervening years that the paper has yellowed around it.

If there is a signature under there in a marker similar to those used in the drawing, there’s a possibility in another 10 or 20 years the color of that could bleed into the whiteout.

If you look at the back, I’d expect it would bleed through some on that side as well. Or many the dog was done I pen or something? It’s just odd that the whiteout is there at all if not to hide another name.

I found it very strange that the whiteout is there. Interestingly there is a bit of whiteout above the beetles head and in between Spider-Man’s legs too. It could just be to mask a smudge or even the beginning of a dedication. 

I appreciate your comment in playing devils advocate with regards to its authenticity age-wise. 

I’m unsure as to why people think this is a poor copy of the ams 21 as it looks almost identical imo. 

This piece has always bugged me that the previous owner couldn’t give me a 100% record of its origin as it was sold to me via an art gallery and perhaps foolishly I’ve assumed it to be of genuine worth. 

Id like to point out that I’ve not bought this to sell on, just to have a unique piece of marvel art from the guys from the time and if this isn’t it then it annoys me greatly. 

Thank you all for your input, it’s given me food for thought. 

10 minutes ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

First thing that stands out is that Stan Lee signature is of a more recent vintage. There are old, silver age era signatures of Stan that are different, and are not that stylized one we see everywhere now. So, dating it by the Lee signature isn't much help. Also, that is definitely not a Ditko drawing, or even by a professional artist. It is a crude attempt at recreating that Splash. I agree that it is likely just a fan drawing that someone later had Stan sign to pump up its value. Probably within the last 5-10 years. The original signature is whited out, as someone else noticed. If it was by a name artist, there would be no need to do that.

Well that would be very annoying if that is the case. When I purchase it I was confused why it was whited out. But it was framed and had a letter of prominence to show it was over 30 years old. 

Thanks for your input however. 

As an aside the shop was upfront in saying that the Stan Lee signature was added prior to the sale of the collection. So I know it holds less value in and of itself.

It's not nice feeling duped, so if anyone can prop up my enthusiasm for this purchase for the future that would be great

1 hour ago, ESeffinga said:

I'm certainly no expert on these things, but to me it looks like an old fan drawing, and someone decided to white out the name of the fan at some point in it's history.
As an aside, Stan Lee would sign a sock if you put it in front of him during his signing sessions.

 

Oh yeah, I know Stan would write on anything, but being in the UK getting a signature from him is trickier. This piece was provided to me 'somewhat authenticated' through a reputable art gallery. So it should be fairly honest in it's origins. It came from a private collection, with the previous owner stating it was done by one of the original comic illustrators.

I was just hoping to find out if there was any way authenticate the originator as from looking online it appears to be problematic.

Thanks for responding though, I really appreciate it.

Recently I came into possession of a piece of art done way back in the day of the great comic book illustrators.

It appears to be a recreation of the Amazing Spider-man issue 21 inside cover/page 2 where Spiderman is fighting The Beetle.

In the original comic this piece was done by the legendary Steve Ditko and to my knowledge this piece looks identical to the image in the comic. And I am assured that it was created around the same time. To that effect it was signed by Stan Lee as he is certain of it's age but not able to clarify the artist (as he's, you know, getting on a bit).

Does anybody know if there is a way to authenticate the original artist? I know it can sometimes happen through a signature but other than what could possibly be behind some tip-ex there is no signature to analyse on this piece. 

I've attached the image for reference.

I'm just curious as to whether this can be done as I'm very proud of owning this piece and want piece of mind as to it's value, otherwise I won't be so proud 

Thanks in advance.

40 minutes ago, grebal said:

My 2 cents to add - getting a new Stan Lee sig is an iffy plan, his more recent sigs (the past couple of years at least) have appeared either poorly written and/or poorly placed on the covers.  So getting a reasonable looking/placed sig already present has added value in light of the uncertainty of what you might get if you took the long route.

Yeah I've heard other commentors on other threads mentioning his degrading eyesight, useful  2 cents!

1 hour ago, miraclemet said:

What's it worth? Hmm that depends....

The cheapest way you get a Cgc SS Stan signature is to wait for one to come up in auction (eBay, comiclink, etc), cause you can often get it for less than the cost of creating it (cost of book+cost of sight+cost of CGC SS submission). Most of the ones listed with BIN prices or are on dealer websites are listed for the price of creating the SS book. 

So looking at recent auction sales on eBay for similar books...

Asm 37 in 5.0 sold for $220

Asm 42 in 5.0 sold for $250

Asm22 in 6.0 sold for $250

Asm46 in 7.0 sold for $301

So their ask isn't as far off as I thought. If you were to buy a raw copy for around $150, then get it signed yourself ($200 All in costs),you be outbound $350, maybe a little less (best case $300). So I'd say make an offer of 300 to see if there's any negotiating, but don't feel bad paying full price, especially since you get exactly what you want, immediately (as opposed to waiting 4+ months for creating and submitting your own. Or if you are a "must get a deal" kind a guy (as some of us Are) just keep watching eBay in hopes one gets listed in an auction cause it will probably for for less in an auction....probably.

That was really thorough and informative, thank you very much, I'll have a ponder.

Lovely community

On 11/30/2017 at 5:07 PM, miraclemet said:

There are 47 SS copies of this book (vs 800+ universal). So probably not many come up for sale.

But you are in luck!

There's a Cgc 6.0 for sale on mycomicshop.com

https://www.mycomicshop.com/search?ItemID=45292962

Their asking price is a little steep, but you could contact them to see fit the seller will negotiate (it's a consignment).

A 7.0 SS signed by Stan sold for $300 recently, and a 0.5 sold back in July... Those are the only two sales in the last 12 months on GPA so there aren't a ton of opportunities to get this specific book, but I'd set up an alert on eBay in case someone lists one.... That's the most likely place you will find one for sale.

 

Good luck!

My apologies I've just clicked that the listing you suggested is exactly what I was after!

In your opinion how much would you expect a piece like this to be worth? Before I try and negotiate the price down too much or not enough.

On 11/30/2017 at 5:07 PM, miraclemet said:

There are 47 SS copies of this book (vs 800+ universal). So probably not many come up for sale.

But you are in luck!

There's a Cgc 6.0 for sale on mycomicshop.com

https://www.mycomicshop.com/search?ItemID=45292962

Their asking price is a little steep, but you could contact them to see fit the seller will negotiate (it's a consignment).

A 7.0 SS signed by Stan sold for $300 recently, and a 0.5 sold back in July... Those are the only two sales in the last 12 months on GPA so there aren't a ton of opportunities to get this specific book, but I'd set up an alert on eBay in case someone lists one.... That's the most likely place you will find one for sale.

 

Good luck!

That's really useful information, thank you so much!

Finding graded copies of this comic is really simple, it's the stan lee ss bit that seems to be an issue. I'd gladly buy a standard cgc grading and get Stan to sign it if I could figure out how to do that from the UK.

Thank you for your help though!

9 minutes ago, NoMan said:

"A bit of a faff!?" 

Yeah WTB section is best if you're UK, I guess. Nothing is that pure around here (to me), so no need to remove. Others who live to find "a faff" wherever they go may disagree. 

Haha, good to know. I've looked into it and I can't seem to get my head around who to send the comic to and whether they are able to go to where Stan is and get him to sign it before grading it and sending it back. Obviously I'd prefer this route but there are many sites boasting that they can do this (which I have no idea about how good or bad they are) and I can't bank on Stan being where I need him (being from the UK this all has to be done remotely) so please forgive my poor choice of words

1 minute ago, NoMan said:

No need to be sorry. You'll learn your way around. That's a very specific item. Maybe easier to buy one and head to Stan Lee at a con (at least for the moment)

Problem is I'm in the UK, I'm not sure he travels over here. And from what I've read, to get it witnessed and graded seems like a bit of a faff. I've posted in the WTB section so hopefully someone will bite. Should I remove this thread to keep the forum pure?

Just now, NoMan said:

There is a looking to buy section. Try there. Welcome. 

Thank you, Very sorry.

Hello Everyone,

This is my first post so I apologise if I haven't followed the rules, just let me know and I'll amend.

I am looking for a Stan Lee signed SS CGC The Amazing Spider man #21 (the issue with the beetle and the human torch) to compliment an original sketch I own from that comic.

If anyone has one they are ready to part with or know how I could search for and obtain this piece It would be very much appreciated. I'm new to this world so any advice would be welcome.

Looking forward to hearing from you.

On 8/8/2017 at 7:00 PM, jgallo said:

Moving these to ebay tonight....

Hello jgallo,

Not sure if this is too late or not, but I wonder if issue 21 is still on offer/in your possession?  Probably not at this late stage, but worth asking.

Kind Regards.

Zanga