BmoGreen

2 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

Was able to convince eBay to remove the negative. Made me feel slimy, because it renders the feedback system useless, but I obviously didn't think it was reasonable in this instance, especially for the reason given (blocked bidder.)

I hope bmogreen finds what he needs to find. The offer to accept the return will be open until Feb 28, 30 days after receipt. 

Yah, that does really negate the feedback system. You definitely earned a negative. 

I love how RMA keeps throwing this "offer" to return the book at me and everyone thinks your so great for it! It is NOT an offer, he is REQUIRED to take the book back until Feb 28. This is not professionalism, this is a requirement. Part of the "contract" made at the point of purchase.

Congrats on getting the feedback removed though I guess....you really taught me a lesson here I will now declare complete and utter defeat. See y'all when I see ya.  

25 minutes ago, Domo Arigato said:

Did this thread go how you intended?

LOL

Lol, no.... I didn't really have any expectations. Came here asking about 2 books. Everyone said one of the books I shouldn't worry about and the other I should. So I didn't worry about the book everyone said I shouldn't worry about and did worry about the one they said I should. RMA told me to come here and ask about it after I opened my dispute. Well I already had...that is exactly why I opened my dispute. I really can't believe RMA simply didn't split the cost with me to trade me one of his other copies of this book and call it a day as I requested. He would of been out like 18 bucks and would of never had to hear another word about it. Not only that, but he would have had the profit from the other book I offered to buy from him. 
 

13 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

 

I could say "eff that guy! He left me a neg! Screw him!"...but that wouldn't make me any better than most typical "Comic Book Guys" and my goal is to BE better than those guys.

 

LOL

49 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

I apologized to him, told him he could return the book, he refused, and after all that...leaves a negative out of spite...?

Bad faith, man. Bad faith.

Telling me I can return the book for a refund doesn't mean a thing. Of course I can return the book for a refund, its in your policy. Refunds for any reason up to 30 days. 
 

I only opened the claim after asking here and being informed that this book probably was not a 9.8 and that I should open a dispute. I agree that I should have been informed that bindery chipping could exist in a 9.8 and since the images were so substandard I should have asked for more detail. 

I dropped the dispute after much discussion on the newbie board and a couple others. I still feel the seller should be more open with this what seems to be slightly out of the ordinary damage for a 9.8. The seller did not like that I wouldn't just agree that he did everything correct. He continued to be abrasive and condesending as I did not agree. He definitely earned his negative. 

Anyone who wants to block me that is fine, but you can look at my history as a buyer on ebay and see that I don't hand out negs. This guy just earned it. 

1 minute ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

It's not about whether or not you "deserve" to be blocked; it's basic protection. You have outed yourself as:

1. Someone who shades the truth, and even outright lies, for personal gain.

2. Someone who, with the very first slab you purchased, decided that your grading abilities trumped both a seller who has submitted thousands and thousands of books to CGC AND CGC itself.

3. Someone who, despite all efforts to patiently explain, refused to accept that your expectations were simply unrealistic, and that you had received a perfectly typical 9.8 condition book in a 9.8 slab.

4. Someone who leaves negative feedback out of spite...damaging a seller's account...because they (wisely) put you on their blocked bidder list.

It's just basic common sense. 

1. Please explain to me how I "shaded the truth" would love to hear this one.
2. I did not decide my grading abilities trumped anyone, which is why I came here and asked. I was informed by multiple people that this book was not a 9.8. I do agree that after looking at your evidence about chipping that CGC probably did intend to grade this a 9.8. Does not mean that your scan did not obscure that damage, intentionally or not. 

3. Perfectly typical 9.8. How many other 9.8 books do you have listed right now that have this perfectly typical flaw? If it doesn't merit mentioning at the minimum a clear photo would be good. I have learned though that in the future I will be asking for higher res images
4. The feedback was not left out of spite. The feedback was more than earned, you have been nothing but condescending despite my initial contact with you basically offering to split the costs of the problem with you. Then after dropping the claim you continued to be rude simply because I didn't flat out say that the way you do things is perfect. 

I went out of my way not to get to this point and you went out of your way to get here....

Again, no worries, If you can read through this post and think I am at fault and deserve to be blocked. That is fine with me. 

Only left the neg after RMA added me to his blocked buyer list. I was fine to let it go....even dropped the claim on ebay...

Anyone here who thinks I am in the wrong can go ahead and add me to your blocked buyer list. I am sure if you examine the feedback I have left for other sellers you will see this is the first time in like 10 years a seller has earned a negative from me....in probably 500ish transactions....on this account

7 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

Then isn't it incumbent upon you to look at the listing where you can actually see the picture properly...?

 

I never said I didnt look at your comic on a screen larger than a phone. The problem is your image is bad and does not show anything more than what might be a scanner artifact. Your image will never show the damage no matter how big we blow it up. My image will no matter how small you shrink it down.

My response to you was about you saying my image was "blown up". My image simply shows the damage. If you cant extrapolate how "big" it really is based on the size of the standard xmen cover logo in the image then I dont think there is anything else I can do. There is no "standard computer monitor".

I have a hard time believing you are actually arguing this point....

15 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

That's not context. If I show you this:

You're not going to get a good idea of how big the mintmark "S" really is in real life.

Context is showing it in a size that is relatively close to how big the book is in real life.

No. What you say/ask is impossible. We are talking screens here. You may have some giant monitor you are looking at and someone else might have a phone screen. Showing something that people understand the size of next to something they might not is what we call context.

When i look at the images i posted on my phone, they are actually smaller than in real life.

56 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

Or, you could keep the book, since it's a very nice 9.8 double signed copy of a rather key X-Men book, and trade it for something you like better somewhere down the line.

Im gonna keep it and resell it. I will disclose the chipping and take reasonable photos of it and will probably get less money for it because of that, but hopefully not much more than 35$ less that 2 ways of shipping would cost. Maybe though, it is pretty ugly. I cant imagine many people who buy 9.8 books would knowingly buy a book with a chip and dent on the corner rather than a book of the same grade without it

In my "super blown up photos" I still included context. You can clearly see how big it is based on the xmen logo in the photo which is about the same size on any xmen comic from the era.

And your question about where I posted? Random cgc collecters groups around the internet. The posters credentials I dont know. Dont worry as with the post here I did not ever say who sold it to me. 

Sorry you got caught up in my first purchase. I now know to ask about chipping and will on purchases where the images dont make it clear that there is not any.

Again, I would like to ask all commenters on this thread if there are other flaws which are visually as noticeable as a bindery chip other than centering and color vibrancy which would not degrade a book past a 9.8 that I should ask about before purchasing. 

8 minutes ago, IkewithMike said:

The internet is littered with opinions, actually rather hard to find a space where facts are displayed and discussed, rationally, scrutinized and agreed upon.

Now, seems to me, this being my opinion, you didn't hear what you wanted to, and that makes people jerks.

:shrug:

Or....ya know....ya just might be jerks

14 minutes ago, ThothAmon said:

My response to you was not meant to criticize you in any way. Your question is certainly legitimate. My criticism was actually of those who advised you that this in fact was a defect that precludes a 9.8. Which it isn’t. As far as buying graded books go I’ve come up with a saying-Buy the book not the grade.  

Thats fair, I did not take your comment badly. And I agree about buying the book and not the grade and have since before I bought my first slab.

Guys can say 9.8 is 9.8 is 9.8 and it doesnt matter, but I sure notice a bunch of them note how great the color or centering is on their 9.8's. They just dont think mentioning flaws is needed....

I did a close inspection of the provided photo on the book I bought on the ebay listing, the issue just did not register on this not so good image which had glare and grain along the top edge.  If it would have been visable I would have never bought this book. I know in the future that if I cant see the edge of a book I will ask about bindery chipping before buying. 

11 minutes ago, Bob Troub said:

Interesting thread....this new "buyer" needs to find another hobby to invest in.....I would not want him or his "2 full time employees" , as he keeps stating, to buy anything from me...there is just no way to make him happy.....

Wow.....some of you guys are pretty whiny.... dude it has been years since I even thought of returning something.

I point out my credentials to say that I am not just a newbie comic collector but a seasoned veteran in a vast swath of the world of collectibles... vinyl records, vintage clothing, rare books, vintage and antique toys, modern sneakers. I have also collected but not sold cards for years. Yes, not comics, but a wide enough range of collectables that my skills are applicable. 

Not sure why a few of you think I have been unreasonable here. I came here for advice before taking any actions. Got advice and took action based on that advice. Got more advice and decided not to follow through. Some of yall are just real jerks....

3 hours ago, 50 Fiddy said:

I think this is something you need to answer yourself.  Visually, an off-centered 9.8 is a no-go for me. 

Yes, that is a no go for me also, but luckily that is obvious from even the worst photos. But what I am asking is if there is any other defect which could appear on a 9.8 that would be so obvious and unappealing, as you noted, off centered books is a good example. This is not something I could answer myself because I am too green to know of these things. If I had not received this book from RMA I would not even know about bindery chips yet. 

On 2/7/2020 at 11:51 AM, Avi said:

Sorry, sometimes I just type, read, and submit at the same time.

I meant to say "you just WONT find an issue without it"

It; being a defect in the corner.

I haven't seen another issue with it. There are dozens on ebay right now with photos that you can actually see the corners and none of them have the issue. So....I can say without a doubt you are wrong about that. 

11 hours ago, 50 Fiddy said:

If CGC doesn't list grading notes on a 9.8 then why should the seller create notes?  

because CGC is not the one selling the book. 

On 2/7/2020 at 1:31 PM, Lazyboy said:

You would think this should be true in comics, but there are some legitimate reasons (and some more questionable ones) why it's not.

I am interested to hear your opinion on what this legitimate reasons are and what these more questionable ones are. 

 

10 hours ago, ThothAmon said:

Sad that it took the seller to post why the first book is a 9.8 (production defect) when a good number of posts were enabling the OP’s unfounded concerns. I’ve noticed that the boards are a little quick to throw sellers under the bus. 

I think the posters were not trying to throw anyone under the bus. Universally everyone told me not to worry about the other book I posted photos of. However, there seems to be some genuine disagreement among CGC buyers about "bindery chipping". The 4 other boards I posted this on were similar to this, the majority of people seem to think that the ebay seller should have mentioned the chip at the minimum. Clear photos of the ding would have been appropriate.

I did not open my dispute on ebay with RMA until the majority of posters on multiple boards agreed that I should. And when I did open the dispute RMA told me to come here and ask you guys. I already had, which is why I opened the dispute. As someone who sells collectibles online for a living and supports 2 well paid full time employees also. I did not feel comfortable opening a dispute with such a highly rated seller without asking around first. 

I have decided not to send the book back on RMA's dime. I still feel like I got the short end of a stick, but RMA's 5 star across the board feedback is incredibly hard to earn on ebay and I have decided I am not experienced enough with CGC books to let my opinion about whether or not he should have disclosed this damage. And honestly, he has a great selection of books which I would like access to in the future. 

Obviously bindery chipping is acceptable on a 9.8 according to CGC. RMA's post earlier in the thread was enlightening and I appreciate him taking the time to gather all this evidence. I have a question for everyone, since I am still learning and would like to not repeat this mistake in the future. Are there any other flaws that are as visually obvious and unappealing as a bindery chip that I should look out for and ask about before purchasing high grade CGC books?

I have purchased 30 other 9.8 books from this era now and luckily no others had any incredibly obvious defects like this one I got from RMA. So either I have been lucky or this particular defect is not incredibly common. 

RMA has really put me in a hard place here. Based on his amazing feedback on ebay and with his 56000 posts on this forum he is obviously an expert and its hard for me to believe that I am in the right here requesting that and he is in the wrong given that the book I bought from him was the first CGC book I ever purchased.  However, after posting this on various forums around the web, quite a few people think this flaw was a little out of the ordinary at best. RMA's defense is that the book is a 9.8 and he doesn't describe books because that is what he pays CGC to do, which I suppose is understandable. 

In my message to RMA one ebay I asked that he swap this book for one of his other 9.8 SS of the same book, shipping as his expense because he did not disclose the abnormal damage and his scan or photo had no hint to its existence. I offered to make a purchase from him to make shipping back basically free for him (since as a seller I know adding a second book is not going to significantly raise the cost of shipping). I felt I was being reasonable by basically offering to split the cost of the problem with my book purchase. I had already posted here and a few other forums asking about this and did not ask for the return till multiple people in the groups said this book was kinda funky.

Seeing RMA's rep in here and his feedback on ebay and his book selection, I hate to go through with the claim over what is basically 15$ worth of shipping and get blacklisted by RMA, who I think I would like to purchase future books from given the quality of his store. I also hate the idea that I dropped a ton of cash on a book which I would not have bought if he simply would have disclosed this out of the ordinary damage for the grade. I would have simply bought one of his other copies that I assume don't have a giant dent on the corner. 

As someone who has made my living and my two full time employees from online sales for the past dozen years, I can't imagine ever listing a book like this without disclosure, but then again, I have never dealt in the graded comic field before. 

Oh well.... thanks for the thoughts on the post everyone.

12 hours ago, Avi said:

I stand corrected about the defect happening before getting encased. Like RMA (the seller above) mentioned. You just WONT an issue with it.

 

Not understanding the "you just WONT an issue with it." does "WONT" stand for something I dont understand?

2 hours ago, William-James88 said:

Oh man, speaking of OCD

 

Hey, thanks for posting my post over here. Would love some more discussion of that issue 221 pictures I posted. Would anyone on this thread be happy receiving that book? Would this receive a 9.8 if it were opened and regraded? 

Is this a bindry chip? Does it not matter that ever page in the book is dinged at the corner as you can clearly see from the photos?

I will admit that my second book I posted is reasonable, it wasn't what I was expecting, but after looking around I have tempered my expectations. However, I can not believe that anyone would be happy receiving the issue 221 I posted.  Like I said in the post though I am literally brand new to CGC books and came here looking for guidance and opinions. 

23 minutes ago, William-James88 said:

The second one is a normal 9.8. So if you don't find it nice enough then as others have said, you might look into collecting 9.9 or 10.

 

The first one is not (or more likely no longer) a 9.8. You could return it, but only mention that you could not see that tear in the pics. Saying it's not a 9.8 may not work in your favor if paypal reviews the case. 

Fair enough. Like i have said I am willing to adjust expectations. Just learning here.

The graded comic world is completely different from the graded card world. From what I gather the cover not being square with the book would be a downgrade on a more recent book, am I correct on that? In the graded card world anything that would downgrade a new card would downgrade an old card equally.

I have made my peace with that difference. It made me feel bad about my buys at first, as my expectations were not tempered. I am willing to accept "contemporary community standards" on this and have quickly adjusted expectations. Buying 10's is obviously out of the question as they just dont exist. 

Thanks for the advice on the return. I hate to do it, the seller is looks stellar from their feedback, but they should have disclosed.

On 2/3/2020 at 3:49 PM, Avi said:

What I was implying is that your expectations sound unrealistic for the grade you are looking for. Clearly you feel like your standards are higher than the rest of us =(

A brief CGC grading scale. https://www.cgccomics.com/comic-grading/grading-scale/ More in depth ones can be found online and might give you more insight into the standards and expectations.

From the Link you posted: "9.8 - A nearly perfect collectible with negligible handling or manufacturing defects." I would hardly call a corner sliced nearly off and a dent to every page in the book negligible. Going by your link I am going to assume someone made a mistake on that book. The other book, I am inclined to listen to you and the choir here seeing how I have seen similar on a bunch of books now.

I really am trying to learn here,  I find it hard to believe you or anyone else on this forum would receive the book with the dented and chopped corner and not be disappointed. 

5 hours ago, Avi said:

The first defect might have happened after grading while the book was being encapsulated. The second is not really a issue.

Either way it sounds like you are looking for 10.0s and not 9.8s

I think I am looking for 9.8s not 10s. I have a hard time believing this book woukd have been graded a 10 without this dinged corner.

Your first paragraph was helpful though. I am trying to get a feel for hobby expectations are these days. I guess I am surprised they are this low but not necessarily disappointed. Although with the SS book I bet you are right about damage after grading and before encapsulation.

Recently decided to start up a CGC collection after years away from the comic collecting hobby. I had switched to reading trade paperbacks In the late 90's and kind of just gave collecting "real" comics up when I made this switch. I jumped in head first and decided I was going to complete a high grade run of Uncanny X-Men. I recently bought some nice 9.8's to start my new collection. 

The first book I got was a 9.8 copy of Mr. Sinisters 1st appearance, xmen 221. Signed by Claremont and Silvestri! I opened it up out of a very well packed priority mail box. And immediately my eye shoots to a tear on the corner of the book. I could not believe my eyes. Not a great introduction to graded comics. The tear is on the front cover, but every page from front to back is dinged and back cover has a smaller tear. as you can see from my second photo. 

Am I wrong to want to send this back? Would this flaw fall under what is acceptable for a 9.8? (I can't believe it is, but I guess I should ask since this is my first graded book). The rest of the book does look flawless. 

This was not evident from the photos on ebay, so I decided no biggie I will just send it back for a full refund. 

The next day I got a copy of a not so spectacular book, issue 159, no first appearances or anything, just a solid 9.8 in the series I am trying to make a run of. This book I was happy to see no tears at least, but I could not believe far the corners of the cover were from the actual book. Then I got a few more books in the mail, and most seemed to have this "sagging" issue. 

Now I am second guessing my decision to start collecting CGC books. I would be unhappy with any of these if I got them in a bag and board, way more so than a simple spine pressure crease. Is this just a flaw in CGC cases? Did all 5 of the highly rated sellers I bought from all store the comics improperly, they all certainly seemed like they were shipped exceedingly carefully? Is this just expected and accepted as standard damage that is done by having a comic in a slab?? 

Is the only safe way to get a graded comic to buy it in person then store it flat for eternity? 

I really want to keep buying graded books, but wow this first week was just negative feeling after negative feeling