bocaratondefense

Great episode, Felix.  I always enjoy hearing stories from  the old timers in this hobby.

The discovery of Hulk 181 is exciting.  Can't wait to get more details for that.

Maybe what you offered to the dealer was not worth $35,000 to him.  It's not like you offered $35,000 cash for an item he priced at $50,000.

Did the friends that you consulted value your stuff at a solid $35,000?

You and Joe should have left the pencils the way you found them. 

Kirby, Ditko, Romita, Buscema

On ‎3‎/‎18‎/‎2019 at 2:39 AM, Matches_Malone said:

Conan the Destroyer sold for $1.5 million back in 2010.  I would imagine it will be around that number.

Is Egyptian Queen considered Frazetta's best work?  How does the Egyptian Queen compare to Conan and Death Dealer paintings?

Fantastic video! Glen's descriptions for the Kirby pages are terrific.

In light of recent events where Burkey has admitted to shilling many consignments through one or more third parties, do your organizations plan on accepting future consignments from Mike? Do your organizations plan on allowing him to bid in your auctions?

 

Why wouldn't they? They are getting money from both the seller and the high bidder.

It is not just about money, Ankur. There might be ethical or legal considerations as well.

Very entertaining segment. Albert's stories are great.

 

The next two links:

 

http://www.comicvine.com/articles/spider-mans-best-covers/1100-148735/

 

http://www.complex.com/pop-culture/2012/07/the-15-best-amazing-spider-man-covers-of-all-time/16

 

No #98 on either list.

The second link has ASM #98 ranked number six.

1. ASM 50

2. ASM 39

3. ASM 33

4. ASM 129

5. ASM 43 Vol 2

6. ASM 98

Hard to argue with any of these, aside from ASM #43 Vol 2 by John Romita Jr. It is all subjective, but I would say ASM 98 is a better looking cover than the remaining 14 on the list.

The Amazing Spider-Man 185 cover went for $19K ...

considering all the paste-up work on it, anyone surprised at that price? should it have gone higher/lower??

 

That is really high for an almost all paste-up cover.

If I consider it one of the best pages of the Miller run, nothing can change that.

Agreed. Except I would only want to own pages that had been touched by Frank Miller.

As a fan of the Daredevil series and a collector of Frank Miller art, I would love to find the 8 x11 thumbnail layouts for DD 179 and 181.

It's been brought up before, but will people now start to care more about Miller's extremely loose breakdowns on the Wolverine Limited Series as well? Again, for me, it doesn't matter - I love that series and I think the art looks great, full stop. But, I've long felt that it's obvious that the look of the book was more Rubinstein than Miller (as confirmed multiple times now by Rubinstein)...will this art also receive more scrutiny as well?

It would make a world of difference to me if Miller did the layouts for the Wolverine LS on a separate piece of typing paper, like he did with the latter part of his Daredevil run. However, Joe Rubenstein confirmed that Miller did loose breakdowns on the bristol board. Since Miller did loose pencil breakdowns on the bristol board, I am comfortable with Miller's involvement with the original art from this series.

As far as the Daredevil series, it sounds like I am in the minority, but it is important to me whether Miller touched the boards. Previously I thought the cutoff was #185, and I heavily discounted the issues after #185. Now we have Klaus Janson saying that Miller started doing layouts on separate pieces of paper for issue #179. These are some of the most important issues from the run, but all things being equal, I would much rather have a page that Miller had some contact with, rather than one that is all-Klaus.

That said, I agree with consensus that DD 181 is such an important book that the value of pages form this issue is not likely to be adversely affected by the fact that he did breakdowns on a separate pieces of paper.

 

 

10x Mark Up? Insane. Do these guy really sell high-end pieces non-stop in order for them to keep acquiring art?

 

I mean, if you'er a high-end collector you'd surely know how unscrupulous these guys are and not buy from them. So is it just newbies with deep pockets that continue to fund these guys' OA stash?

10x mark up does sound crazy, but I am more concerned about Cool Lines' misrepresentations about alterations.

Wow a thread I can pitch in on!!!

 

Art as it was purchased by cool lines for about $700 at a heritage auction:

 

http://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryPiece.asp?Piece=30877&GSub=3980

 

Art now for sale, after it's magically acquired new borders:

 

http://www.coollinesartwork.com/featured.asp?Piece=290482

 

Yuppers! Roll right up for actual misrepresentation before your very eyes!

 

Price I was quoted by cool lines after I specifically asked whether they had added borders and was told no...

 

$7k

 

That's a 10x mark up! Great work if you can get it. Course you need to commit fraud and lie to potential customers... But hey, that's collecting original art for you!!

How did they create the borders?

There is nothing wrong with that. If you are not a fan of Marvel superheroes, or Wolverine in particular, I can understand why you have little appreciation for the first appearance of Wolverine.

Personally, I rank nostalgia and historical context above aesthetics. Almost every piece in my collection is from a comicbook in which I have fond memories of reading and collecting.

Great feedback guys, thanks.

 

Some thoughts....

 

Hari:

- I moved Romita Spidey 2up down a notch but there are definitely more than one data-point of A-level stuff going past $40k

Mike Burkey would be a good person to ask on these. Isn't Mike selling A-level twice up Romita ASM pages for $60-75K? Of course, this does not include the special pages, like the introduction for MJ, which are presumably more.

A lot would depend on when the Frank Miller interview for Comic Feature #25 actually occurred. I imagine Miller was interviewed at least a few months before publication.

In any case, my original question was whether Frank Miller had done the 190 splash as the auction currently indicates. It seems like this is what happened: starting with issue #185 (or #179, but #185 for sure), Miller drew thumbnails. Janson then penciled and inked the finished page on a separate piece of paper. We can debate how to credit it or whether that means the page's value changes, but just for information's sake, it would be helpful to have that knowledge at hand.

 

Does that summary sound about right?

Yes, that is more accurate.

Klaus penciled, inked, and colored the page, while Miller never actually touched the art board. Potential buyers would never know that by reading the auction description only.

Googling "Janson Miller Daredevil thumbnails" gave me this. Here's Janson in 2012:

 

http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2012/02/23/frantic-as-a-cardiograph-scratching-out-the-lines-day-54-daredevil-172/#comment-885952

 

The money quote:

 

"Just to set the record straight, though, Frank went to 8 and a half inch by 11 inch breakdowns on issue #179, not #185. And he was doing breakdowns on the boards for a handful of issues before that."

 

 

 

So it sounds like Frank did layouts on the same boards for a while, then starting with #179 (or #185?) he did them on separate, smaller sheets of paper.

 

The Daredevil #181 title splash credits "Story & Art" to Miller and "Finished Art & Colors" to Janson.

http://comics.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=7063&lotNo=92224

If what Klaus Janson is saying above is true, then Daredevil #181 is one of the issues that Frank Miller created layouts on smaller 8 1/2 x 11 pieces of paper. I find it very interesting that all original art for DD #181 was penciled by Janson only, and Miller never actually touched the art boards for this important issue.

 

7) Don't overly show it off. The less people see it, the better. It gets old seeing the same piece of art over and over again. When it comes time to sell, it'll be "fresh to the market". Impulse buying is the reason.

Avoid posting on CAF?

The Wolverine miniseries was done with looser pencils but directly on boards. Someone here had scans of some of the pencils before they were inked by Rubenstein.

The main source to tell that Miller did layouts in a different sheet for #185-190 is the interview to Janson published in Back Issue #21 mag. But I don't know how the Craftint issue could affect the trust on Janson's memories.

 

I'm trying to get confirmation that #191 had Miller pencils by asking Terry Austin through third parties. I also think that they are full pencils over the artboard.

 

The source for the statement that Miller began to do layouts from #173 till #184 is also Back Issue #21. Philippe Cordier, the interviewer to Janson, says that till #172 Miler spotted blacks but he stopped doing so because his trust on Janson growed. He also commented that Miller still drawed directly on the board, and another reason to start doing layouts is that by #173 it was a couple of months after the book went to monthly schedule.

 

Janson comments that he started using craftint in #177, in the cover and in the flashbacks of interior pages.

 

Again the doubts if those interior pages are 100% Janson or not. According the cover and Miller's handwritten note, they should be Miller/Janson.

This interview in Back magazine is what I always reference as well.

The issues from #173 to 184 I still consider to be Frank Miller original art, since he actually loosely penciled the layouts onto the boards. Starting with DD #185 Miller no longer penciled on board, but rather he only did preliminary layouts on separate smaller pieces of paper. So if a dealer tried to sell me a page from DD #185, I would value that page as a Klaus Janson only page.

.... and from #185 to 190 Miller laid out in a small paper and didn't touch the artwork, which is 100% Janson.

Is this true for the covers as well?

Here is an old thread with with side by side comparisons of some original Miller pencils compared with Janson inks. The finished inked pages look very faithful to the original pencils to me. These are from Daredevil #172 where Janson inked directly over Miller pencils on board.

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=160754&Number=4604151#Post4604151

Ferran, What do pencil traces prove? That is not inconsistent with what Klaus said. Klaus said he redrew it or traced it (presumably with pencil) and then he inked it.

 

FROM KLAUS ... Spencer-I don't think that this was done on 8.5X11 paper as if I remember correctly, the covers were done full size- But since the cover was done on craf t-tint, Frank did the pencils on regular cover stock and I redreww it or traced it onto craft tint paper and then inked it. Frank never penciled anything on craft tint. I was the one who used that and introduced it into the DD run. Hope that answers the questions.

KJ