aka_RAMSES

On 10/27/2021 at 7:08 AM, Twanj said:

IMO "first appearance" is overhyped. Sounds like you got a first appearance* (in issue* as an adult)

There are first appearance issues and the actual first appearance page, but if the character's on the cover then that's the first appearance and there's a separate first appearance in issue.

The character is not on the cover, this is their first appearance in the comics.  It just happened in a flashback and then back to present day with my splash page being the present “first full appearance”. So confusing, first should be first, lol.  

On 10/27/2021 at 6:03 AM, Rick2you2 said:

If yours is the only actual OA from the first issue with the character, that should be a good enough distinction, but save your notes— who knows what will tickle someone later?
By the way, lots of new characters show up in lots of books. They all don’t become the next Wolverine.

 

I did talk to the rep and the artist is calling it the first full appearance of said character.  It is a splash page if that means anything.  I was just confused when the character showed up (via flashback as a teen).  I kinda felt like it muddied the waters as far as a first appearance.  I also realize this character will never be Spidey or Wolverine, I just wanted to make sure I got what was described.  It is, to my knowledge, the only first appearance traditional art with any character from this universe.  Thanks for the comment.

So, I recently purchased a page from a new series that was just released.  I bought the page as a first appearance page, not being able to read the book since it wasn’t out yet.  Well, it finally comes out and I’m reading and the character is shown (not the page I bought) through about 5-6 pages.  This is a flashback of them in their teens.  Finally my page shows up and it’s the first time you see them as an adult.  So, wouldn’t the youth page be the first appearance?  He was actually formally introduced in those pages as a teen.  I have always assumed the first appearance is the first appearance?  Any thoughts on this?  I paid a premium price on the notion it was a first appearance and now I’m not so sure. 🤷🏻‍♂️  Thanks!

**edit** I will also add that there are only two traditional pages for this issue, mine being the only one with said character.  The rest of the issue was done digitally.

  Yep, what the other guy said is pretty spot on.  Very few pages have been done traditionally for SIKTC and will be extremely difficult to find/ buy.  I have talked with Werther and his rep a few times over the past year and have pretty much given up on getting a page from the series.  
  Tons of artists do covers for the series though so that would be your best bet at scoring something.  Though again, these are very desirable since the interior art is almost nonexistent.  Kirby’s Comic Art seems to have a lot of their artists doing covers for it on a regular basis, so contacting Annabel there and letting her know what you’re looking for would get the ball rolling.  Or do some cover homework since they are usually shown months in advance and then try to hit up said artist or rep and try to get one that way.  Good luck, such a great series.

4 minutes ago, Varanis said:

 

Congrats @aka_RAMSES! That's a really great piece from a really fantastic book. It's actually not uncommon for artists to do prelims like that. I know I see Daniel Warren Johnson do something very similar, although his prelims are usually traditional.

In this case, the traditional pencils are definitely part of the publishing process. It may have been easier for the artist to either skip tight pencils or do the pencils digital only, but it's pretty evident based on the images that the traditional pencils were used for the final piece.

One thing possibly worth pointing out is that colors are digital 99% of the time. The only common colored pieces are paintings - and in those cases, the painting is essentially always the most desirable piece regardless of what else exists. Almost always the only consideration around colors is to ask if the final piece is a painting. If it's not, colors are pretty much guaranteed to be digital and a moot point.

Thanks!  I’m thrilled with it, though I would have liked for it to be inked traditionally as well.  Just my preference.  The artist actually said they have inked traditionally in the past but usually ended up scanning that and doing it digital as well so now they just skip that part and do it all digitally.  Also, I do realize most color is done digitally.  It just seems like a huge process when all of it could be done on paper and then scanned to color. 🤷🏻‍♂️

3 hours ago, Rick2you2 said:

In other words, they do a recreation of the original, since it is never part of the publishing process, and pretend it’s the original to sell. 

Just going by what the artist told me and showed me with the panel that was blown up and light boxed.  That digital panel looked quite different to me and the pencil spot on for the most part to the published piece.  I’m happy with it. 🤷🏻‍♂️

11 minutes ago, Varanis said:

In that scenario, it sounds like the pencils are the only piece which physically exists. I think it all depends on the quality of the pencils at that point and how many (if any) changes were made from pencils to final piece. Not a great answer, but I think in this scenario the answer is really - it depends. I think it's a big plus you're getting the only board, but opinions vary substantially around pencil only pieces.

Well, I pulled the trigger on this today because I’ve been trying to get a cover for issue #16.  I was told by the artist that they do the preliminary work digital, blow it up and light box and fine pencil it, THEN go back to digital to ink and then someone else digitally colors it. 😳  I asked why even do the physical pencil and they said to sell for extra money.

Im very happy with it and think I got a good price but I think the artist is leaving money on the table not physically inking it too. 🤷🏻‍♂️
 

22 hours ago, Varanis said:

Generally I'd be hesitant to buy a piece that has pencils floating about, but I feel it's usually an exception if the artist's final product is a painting. Not sure how this piece was colored, but the colored piece is definitely highly distinct from the pencils and likely vastly more desirable. There also seem to be slight differences in the pencils and the colored piece, which indicates the pencils were largely prelim, even if very tight and close to final image. 

I like the example @John E. gave of Alex Ross. Even if Ross did pencils, you want the painting - there are no questions as to which is more desirable and the owner of the painted piece would have zero qualms about a pencil prelim existing separate.

There are many variations in which art can exist. Generally I only avoid buying a piece if 2+ boards exist for the same piece of pen & ink art and I can't get both boards (but even then, I'll make an exception for the right piece/price). If an artist does digital pencils and traditional inks, the piece is still 100% that artist and only 1 board exists - in my opinion, that isn't really any different from a single board with both traditional pencils and inks. Collectors obviously differ greatly on this though. I suspect collectors of modern art are likely more open to different formats as modern artists work in so many different formats.

That helped a lot.  One more scenario for you.  Would you consider pencils preliminary if it was then inked digitally and colored digitally?

1 hour ago, Hal Turner said:

John knows a lot about the hobby, so take what I say with a grain of salt. This penciled page doesn't look like a prelim to me. It's much too finished. If the pencils were scanned in and the artist inked over the digital lines, then you're getting the published image, that's true, but you're buying inks and colors over a print-out. You're not getting the page of art that created the image. I'd check with the artist to get a little clarification before I made that buy.

I turned the piece down, mostly just because I didn’t want to spend the money.  I did talk to the artist about her process as well.  She pencils, light box over the pencil with ink and then color.

Now, curious on your thoughts about an artist who would do digital and then ink over the print out?  If that was just their process would you never buy a piece of theirs?  This gets to be confusing, lol.  When I started collecting I just figured everything was done on one page all the time.  I was very wrong.

Here are pics of pencil and finished.  I actually contacted the artist about her Batman 108 cover but it was sold and after some talk we wound up with this piece.  I ended up telling the artist I was going to hold off but I appreciated the opportunity to buy.  This purchase would have sapped me for a bit and I didn’t want to miss out on some things I’m looking forward to down the line.  Not a huge Vampirella fan either, I just loved the artwork.

9 hours ago, John E. said:

If the inked and hand-colored (?) piece is the published cover, then that’s the final cover. It’s very likely that the artist considers the pencil piece the prelim. The ink and colored is the more valuable piece. Personally, it’s not a deal breaker knowing the pencils are out there. 

Sorry I hadn’t caught up with this thread, it’s been a day.  When I talked with the artist I told her I was surprised the pencil was bought without the finished piece.  She said she does everything in pencil first because eraser marks can effect the paper and not give her the desired result when coloring the final art.  I’m no artist but I could see her point.  Like I said, I’m still a little green and I have seen pencils and final sold together, especially newer stuff.  I was just a little confused and didn’t want to pay big money (for me) until I got some feedback from some seasoned collectors.

So...I have the opportunity to buy a published cover and the art is inked and colored by the original artist.  While talking the artist told me they had sold the original pencils which I had not expected.  So, what would you do?  I’ve only been collecting for about two years and this has never come up with a sale. Which would be more valuable or is it a deal breaker right from the start since the pencil is out in the wild?  Would the pencil be considered a preliminary since the finished piece was all inked and colored by the artist as well?  Thanks, can’t wait to hear what everyone thinks.