TappanZee

36 minutes ago, Topnotchman said:

Your not able to identify if the comic in the slab is your original book?  

Unfortunately no. I'm not that studied at this craft, and while it looks like the same book, the minute details matter and I have no way of knowing. I only have one image of the book from before I sent it (it's at the beginning of this thread) and it didn't occur to me I needed to document it in detail. Naive of me in hindsight, but like I said, I'm new to all this.

It's too bad comics aren't printed with individual serial numbers, like dollar bills. That would make this a lot easier.

20 hours ago, The Lions Den said:

I sincerely apologize; I'm not questioning your integrity. I actually do believe you're telling the truth, but at CGC they hear this kind of story every day. I sincerely hope it all works out for you, and I wish you the best of luck...  

Fair enough. I appreciate the apology, and sorry if I overreacted. Like I said, this is all new to me, and so far it hasn't been very pleasant.

At the end of day, if it's not resolved to my satisfaction, all I've lost is some time, a bit of money, and a day's worth of aggravation (assuming they sent the right book back to me). The comic can go right back into my long box and my kids can deal with it when I shuffle off this mortal coil.

8 minutes ago, The Lions Den said:

It's the oldest story in the book...  

Again, I have no way to prove to you I'm the only owner of the book, or that this is my first time dealing with CGC, or that I'm not a billionaire, or that I'm not Lady Gaga. It's an internet forum, and we're both posting anonymously. You can believe me or not, it matters not a bit either way.

I've explained my situation as best as I'm able, and since I've received a lot of useful perspectives here, I'm glad I did. Speculation about my veracity or motives is fair, and maybe even expected, but it's ultimately just meaningless chatter in the ether.   

1 minute ago, shadroch said:

If the OP had carefully picked out a copy, read it once and it sat bagged and boarded from then until it was sent in, I'd expect it would grade higher than an 8.0. Perhaps he found a second copy along the way. 

It's my only copy. I don't think I ever said I picked it out carefully - it was my most likely in my pull folder when I bought it from Big Apple Comics in 1988. It's also likely I didn't bag it initially, but some years after I bought it when I realized I should take better care of my comics. I still have big chunks of my collection that aren't in bags at all. I have a long term project to bag and board everything but with 6,000+ comics it's a process.

And I was expecting a higher grade, too. You can see the pre-submitted original at the start of this thread and draw your own conclusion.

16 minutes ago, The Lions Den said:

It's not that CGC can't make mistakes---they can and do. But if we look at the details surrounding this particular case, I'd be extremely surprised if they reversed this decision. Believe it or not, cases like this happen all the time at CGC. People think there's no way their book could be restored, but sadly, it often is. 

My suggestion would be for folks to buy a good quality jeweler's loupe. It really is amazing what you'll find...  

I'm curious how often it happens to books that have had only one owner? Obviously I can't prove the provenance of my comic to you, but for reasons detailed above, the circumstances that would have led this particular comic being retouched are incredibly farfetched. 

As you say, I do expect CGC has heard similar stories, and for that reason I am not optimistic, but so far they seem to be treating my case with the concern I would want. All I can do at this point is hope they continue to keep an open mind about their process.

4 hours ago, Pat Thomas said:

. If they refuse to fix it, and you know it's wrong, take the book out and sell it raw. They aren't the end all be all people make them out to be.

Hi, I do think this is ultimately my last recourse if CGC won't make it right. This whole thing is just maddening - I thought I was doing the smart thing by getting this comic graded and it's now appearing to be waste of time, money, and mental energy.  

2 minutes ago, shadroch said:

Color touch was performed on many books in this era. It wasn't unusual to see dealers at shows color touching books in the down time.

While I doubt a distributor would color these, it would not surprise me if a store did.

I can only again refer to my experience at Big Apple Comics, where I worked and where I bought this comic. New books would arrive Thursday afternoon in sealed boxes, which we would lug in from a van. We’d open the boxes and put all that week’s books on a big table in the back. We’d take the customers folders (literally manila folders) with their pull lists, and go around the table filling the folders. We’d do that for a hundred or so customers, some of whom were  waiting in the front of the store for us to fill their folder.

There was no time to touch up books even if we considered it, which would have been inconceivable to me. As I mentioned, new books were sold “as is.” No one was paying attention to that level of detail about their condition. Outside of an obvious tear or folded cover, we sold every book that arrived from the distributor.

I have no reason to believe this comic was any different. No one cared enough to treat any individual comic as anything special when it was sold.

1 minute ago, Chazgee said:

Only the submitter has free access to their notes. Everyone else has to pay $5 to see them. Books in the NM range often don't get notes.

I guess I should be flattered someone is interested enough in my case to pay to read my notes.

1 minute ago, Chazgee said:

Those are your Grader Notes. You'll find those on your Submissions page. Click the Submission #, and there should be a link to your Grader Notes for that book.

Thanks. Can anyone access them? Are all graders notes public? Or is there another way someone could see them?

10 minutes ago, Topnotchman said:

The one book order was sent through the express tier.  That rules out two books with switched labels during encapsulation.   The notes are

 

 

light bends to cover
	light creasing to cover
	light spine stress lines to cover
	small amount of color touch on top & left bottom back cover

 

 

Where do these comments come from?

12 minutes ago, boomtown said:

Is that white spot on the "3" of the 2nd 300 below the logo box on the actual book or is it something loose on cover? It's on the CGC photo but not your raw book.

I believe it was something on the cover because I don’t see it now.

One thing I didn’t mention is that CGC turned this around surprisingly quickly, at least compared with how long I was led to believe it would take. I shipped it Dec. 8 and it came back today and I don’t think I paid for expedited handling.

That to me lends support to the argument that there was a mixup at CGC.

For what it’s worth I checked my ASM 299 and 301 and there’s no evidence of any tampering. Nor would it make sense for there to be any - the idea that a comic shop would pay workers to discretely touch up thousands of new comics every month just defies logic.

1 minute ago, Sensei Ryan said:

While CGC can make errors with the high number of submissions that they deal with they most likely did not on this book.  Like the others have stated, there is most likely 2-3 places on the spine (or somewhere on the front/back cover) where black marker has been dotted to cover up spine creases/minor color breaks.  The 8.0 indicates decent wear to a modern book so it's possible that someone did this to increase the visual appeal of it.  Unless CGC made a critical error and accidentally gave you the wrong label, you won't get a refund but I'm sure they'd look it over again for you with you footing the bill for shipping to and from (but most likely, it has color touch which would warrant the 8.0 label).  CT can be extremely hard to find if you're not trained to look for it but like the others have stated, you'll want to scour that front cover to find out where it is.

Don't lose faith in CGC...no company is perfect but with this being your first experience sending in any books for grading it's hard to place blame on them as you simply could have not known there was CT present on the book.  If you find out that there is in fact CT on it, though, you've now learned a hard lesson that many of us have and that is to take LOTS of pics before sending in books for grading so you can compare them to your books once they're returned to you if you disagree with the grades they receive. 

As I said earlier, anything is possible but I can’t fathom the scenario in which what you describe might have happened. I am the only owner of this comic, I bought it from my local comic store in 1988 for the cover price and they would have no incentive to touch up comics. They sold new comics “as is.” As I mentioned, I worked at the same store in 1985-86 and we never did anything like that. It’s been in a poly bag in a long box ever since I bought it.

This is of course an anonymous post, and so no one here has any particular reason to believe me, but the only explanation that make any sense is a significant screw up at CGC.

6 minutes ago, steveinthecity said:

@TappanZee You’ve got a visual advantage of having the book in hand, so have you looked closely at the spine for any color anomalies? Was wondering if there may have been any “touch-ups” that were done by the shop back in the day.  That’s not completely unheard of.

I don't see anything out of the ordinary, and to be honest, I would be shocked if the store I bought it from would do that. I bought it at Big Apple Comics (RIP) on Manhattan's Upper West Side, where I had a pull list for years. I used to work there in high school and would fulfill the pull lists for other customers myself, and we never did anything like that. I mean, anything is possible but I would assign that a very low probability.

Sure, thanks for taking an interest. Unfortunately I only have one image of the pre-graded book and it's in the bag.

Let me state up front I am new to all of this. I have been collecting comics in a casual way for nearly 40 years and never had a comic professionally graded. But when I saw the recent prices for Amazing Spider-Man 300, I realized i might have something of value. I bought my copy in 1988 and it's been in a poly bag in a long box pretty much since then. It's never been out of my possession. But it's in good shape so I thought I might sell a book I didn't have much emotional investment in and use the proceeds to purchase Lee / Kirby Fantastic Four books, which is where my collecting interest lies these days

I went through all the steps—joined CGC, ordered a packing box, shipped it, etc— and today received it back: graded 8.0 with a purple label.The label states: "Small amounts of color touch on cover."

That is clearly an error. As stated above, this comic has never been restored. I bought it as a kid, read it once, and put it away until last month. Either there was a handling issue and the wrong book was graded and mailed to me or they simply saw something that wasn't there. Either way it's deeply frustrating and certainly does not give me any confidence about CGC, its grading process, or its so-called quality control. While I am new to this, I know enough about the comic market that a purple label will affect its price and apparently my decision to trust CGC with my comic means they have reduced its value, maybe significantly.

My question for this forum: What are my options? Can I appeal the grade? Get my money back? Get it regraded? Like I said, I am new to all this and hopefully it can be easily resolved.

(if it matters, I posted images of the comic prior to shipping it another forum on this site "ASM 300 Heating Up", so there is some record of its condition prior to grading)

Thanks in advance.

 

3 hours ago, Hollywood1892 said:

I'm going to say .5-1.5 but that's a beautiful piece of FF history 

Thanks. It's the most prized book in my collection. I bought it on a whim for about $350 from Midtown Comics (on sale) about 15 years ago. It looks like comparable books are selling for 10x that on eBay, so in retrospect it was a smart purchase. I have no plans to sell it but it's nice to know it has some value.

In rough shape, with flaking and a bit of the back cover missing.

Thanks. Not a bad idea.

29 minutes ago, StreetPreacher said:

Well it doesn't look like a 9.8, so it's possible you could get more selling it raw?  I'd have to check the current market values!

My hesitation with selling it raw is that I have no credibility as a seller on eBay, so I'm not sure I could get full value for it. I know I would be reluctant to buy a comic from someone who has no history as a seller. I suppose I could try and consign it with a dealer, but again I would be leaving money on the table. I am open to suggestions!

12 minutes ago, StreetPreacher said:

Why do you want to get it Graded/Slabbed in the first place?  Are you planning to sell it, or is this just for your own  'enjoyment'?

I'm thinking of selling. I have a long term goal of owning every issue of the FF, and I've recently become interested in buying original art, and both of those cost money. I thought I would liquidate parts of my collection that have less meaning for me, particularly high-demand books like McFarlanes, to concentrate on the things I'm more focused on. I've never sold a comic, so this is a bit of a change in philosophy, but I think it makes sense.

I'm debating sending this in to be graded and wondering if it is worth it. To my untrained eye it's in great shape, but I'd love to get some expert opinions. Thanks in advance!

(please ignore the ASM 301 at the bottom - I can't figure out out how to edit it out of the post)