Marvels Giant-Size 52 Pagers 1971 Tough To Find In NM GRADE!

[sakaridis]

Anyone have a Ringo Kid #12 in CGC 9.6 or CGC9.8 out there?(smile) whats the census highest I need to check.

 

No 9.8's. Only one 9.6 and 2 9.4's.

[awe4one]

I have both in 9.6, but obtaining them was a small feat in it self. From the NF collectors perspective at the time, there was such a large time gap from issue #15, then they were reprints, albeit the earliest Strange Tales apperances of Nick.

 

This was no "delay" or "time gap", the series was canceled, and then Marvel decided to see if it could eke out a few more dollars with some cheap reprints.

 

Yep...they are no different than Marvel Tales or Marvel Collector's Classic/Greatest Comics. The change to a bigger size didn't signify anything other than their use of an existing way to package reprints...

 

Jim

[WernerVonDoom]

The true 25 cent 52 pagers...

 

Marvel 52 pager early 70s checklist

 

Amazing spider-man #102 Yes

Astonishing Tales #8 Yes

Avengers #93 Yes

Avengers Special #5 No

Captain America #143 Yes

Captain America Special #2 No

Chamber of Darkness Special #1 No

Chili Special #1 No

Conan #10,#11 Yes

Daredevil #81 Yes

Daredevil Special #2,#3 No

Fantastic Four #116 Yes

Fear #5,#6 No to #5/Yes to #6

Incredible Hulk #145 Yes

Incredible Hulk Special #4 No

Iron Man #43 Yes

Iron Man Special #2 No

Kid Colt #156 Yes

Mad About Miliie Annual #1 No

Marvel Feature #1,#2 No

Marvels Greatest Comics #34 No

Marvel Spotlight #2 Yes

Marvel Tales #33 No

Marvel Triple Action #1 Yes

Mighty Marvel Western #15,#16 No

Millie The model #192 Yes

Millie The Model Annual #10 No

Monsters On The Prowl #13,#14 No to #13/Yes to #14

My Love #14 Yes

My Love Special #1` No

Nick Fury Agent Of Shield #16,#17,#18( #16 Marvels (FIRST) 52 pager squarebound comic of the bronze age-----cover dated November 1970) No

Our Love Story #13 Yes

Outlaw Kid #8 Yes

Rawhide Kid #92,#93 Yes to both

Ringo Kid #12 Yes

SGT. Fury #92 Yes

SGT. Fury Special #7 No

Special Marvel Edition #4 Yes

Sub-Mariner #43 Yes

Sub-Mariner Special #2 No

Thor #193 Yes

Thor Special #4 No

Tower Of Shadows Special #1 No

Western Gunfighters #7 Yes

Where Monsters Dwell #13 Yes

X-men #67,#68,#69,#70,#72 No

X-men Special #2 No

 

Discuss...

 

Jim

 

Hey Jim,

 

I don't understand why you took off the squarebound annuals (Hulk Special 5, Tower of Shawdows 1, etc.) They are exactly the same as the other 52-page books, except they have the word "special" or "annual" in the title. As far as Avengers Special 5 being late, that book is dated Jan 72, some of the other books on your list are dated Feb 72 (Fear 6). I consider the dates of these books to range from Nov 71 through Mar 72. Some books only came out once every 3 months back then (i.e. Mighty Marvel Western) - those books couldn't make the Nov 71 deadline to switch styles so they had to wait untli their next issue, pushing them until March.

 

Mike

[joe_collector]

I agree with that, and I've always viewed the "Specials" (later noted as Annuals) as 52-pagers.

[awe4one]

Hey Jim,

 

I don't understand why you took off the squarebound annuals (Hulk Special 5, Tower of Shawdows 1, etc.) They are exactly the same as the other 52-page books, except they have the word "special" or "annual" in the title. As far as Avengers Special 5 being late, that book is dated Jan 72, some of the other books on your list are dated Feb 72 (Fear 6). I consider the dates of these books to range from Nov 71 through Mar 72. Some books only came out once every 3 months back then (i.e. Mighty Marvel Western) - those books couldn't make the Nov 71 deadline to switch styles so they had to wait untli their next issue, pushing them until March.

 

Mike

 

Again, it was intent. I've always looked at the 52 pagers, aside from traditional annuals and specials, as a by-product of the short-lived Marvel experiment of GS regular issues. If they were part of that experiment then they made the cut. The specials and annuals just continued with the format that worked for them for years...I could be wrong about TOS Special #1 though and it may fit the bill. Hulk not.

 

As for the those entering the pic format later, I might give them a pass due to the quarterly distribution but then again, they were already bigger formats so the change isn't a big deal in my opinion.

 

This of course is only my opinion...your mileage may vary. I will say though that neither NF or X-Men meet the "Marvel experiment" criteria as expressed by others here...

 

Jim

[joe_collector]

I will say though that neither NF or X-Men meet the "Marvel experiment" criteria as expressed by others here...

 

I think we can all agree on that.

[bill999]

Where Monster Dwell #13 was listed on my 52 pager list but is NOT a 52 pager. It should be #12 not #13. I guess I am not perfect anymore?(sigh)

 

 

[awe4one]

Where Monster Dwell #13 was listed on my 52 pager list but is NOT a 52 pager. It should be #12 not #13. I guess I am not perfect anymore?(sigh)

 

 

That's cool as I didn't even notice it but knew which issue you were talking about...

 

For a reprint cover it works really well in the pic frame format...

 

Jim

[rodan57]

What's your criteria? Reprint vs. non?

 

To me, any type of 'common thread" trend has to run through virtually all the titles simultaneously, like the 25-cent Giants of November 1971. Random books before (X-Men) or after (Avengers Special 5) shouldn't be included.

 

Intent mainly...the new format 25 cent Marvels started in Nov/Dec 1971 issues (with a smattering of Oct issues). Really doesn't matter if they're reprint of not. I think the important thing was the intent to go GS vs. their traditional 32 page format. Some GS issues make the cut if they dramatically altered their cover format to accommodate (i.e pic frame format) and met the timeframe.

 

Take the monster books for example. The typical old school layout 25 centers didn't make the cut whereas the ones with the pic frame and new art (vs. reprinted cover) did. Some pic frames didn't make the cut because they were released too late (MF #2 for example). Also, Conan and Rawhide had two 25 cent issues and both make the cut since it was clearly the intent of Marvel to go with the bigger format and those started a month early. None of the Specials make the cut since they only mimicked the general 25 cent format of the annuals...

 

Jim

 

I remember these books as seeming very "new" when they first came out. The extra pages allowed second stories and that was unusual for Silver/Bronze Marvels. At the time I was somewhat upset at what the 25 centers were going to cost me every month.

 

Good memories.

[WernerVonDoom]

Hey Jim,

 

I don't understand why you took off the squarebound annuals (Hulk Special 5, Tower of Shawdows 1, etc.) They are exactly the same as the other 52-page books, except they have the word "special" or "annual" in the title. As far as Avengers Special 5 being late, that book is dated Jan 72, some of the other books on your list are dated Feb 72 (Fear 6). I consider the dates of these books to range from Nov 71 through Mar 72. Some books only came out once every 3 months back then (i.e. Mighty Marvel Western) - those books couldn't make the Nov 71 deadline to switch styles so they had to wait untli their next issue, pushing them until March.

 

Mike

 

Again, it was intent. I've always looked at the 52 pagers, aside from traditional annuals and specials, as a by-product of the short-lived Marvel experiment of GS regular issues. If they were part of that experiment then they made the cut. The specials and annuals just continued with the format that worked for them for years...I could be wrong about TOS Special #1 though and it may fit the bill. Hulk not.

 

As for the those entering the pic format later, I might give them a pass due to the quarterly distribution but then again, they were already bigger formats so the change isn't a big deal in my opinion.

 

This of course is only my opinion...your mileage may vary. I will say though that neither NF or X-Men meet the "Marvel experiment" criteria as expressed by others here...

 

Jim

 

Ok, I see. The current 25 cent picture frame registry set is more of a style of book, rather than the complete "experiment" Marvel had. If we are talking intent, I would add books like Monsters on the Prowl 13 or Astonishing 8 that came out in October 71. They were 25 cent issues but were not picture frame. Previous issues in the runs were normal sized, but I assume a decision was made the month after to make them picture frame (most were bi-monthly). So the first issues of the "experiment" would be:

 

Astonishing Tales 8

Conan 10

Millie the Model 192

Monsters on the Prowl 13

Our Love Story 13

Outlaw Kid 8

Rawhide Kid 92

Sgt. Fury 92

X-Men 72 (questionable since #71 was normal sized, they may have switched back for the experiment?).

 

All of these issues were 25 cent without picture frame and came out in October 71.

 

Mike

[WernerVonDoom]

Fear #5,#6: To be consistent, the "intent" list should not included either of these since issues 1-4 were double sized.

 

Marvel Feature #1,#2 - Debatable since there are no issues before them. I would include both of them on the list since it is likely that they would have been normal sized if not for the experiment.

[joe_collector]

All of these issues were 25 cent without picture frame and came out in October 71.

 

Once Marvel ramped up with the company-wide shift to a 25-cent, 52-page format for their new material, it's a done deal, but I don't see how a 52-page issue full of reprints qualifies prior to that.

 

How many of those issues were new material?

 

 

[WernerVonDoom]

All of these issues were 25 cent without picture frame and came out in October 71.

 

Once Marvel ramped up with the company-wide shift to a 25-cent, 52-page format for their new material, it's a done deal, but I don't see how a 52-page issue full of reprints qualifies prior to that.

 

How many of those issues were new material?

 

 

Well, I guess it depends on how you look at it. If I work at Marvel and say "make all of these issues 25 cent, and if you can't produce an original book, put in reprinted material", I would say that counts as part of the experiment.

[joe_collector]

Well, I guess it depends on how you look at it. If I work at Marvel and say "make all of these issues 25 cent, and if you can't produce an original book, put in reprinted material", I would say that counts as part of the experiment.

 

But that makes absolutely no sense. If Marvel is gearing up for a company wide shift to NEW MATERIAL in a 52-page format, then the reprints editions would not be "experiments". Something like Marvel Feature 1 and Marvel Spotlight 1, maybe - but not some dead X-Men reprint.

 

Look at some of the BBs and Letter Pages of the time, Stan's biggest gripe and challenge was getting all the artists to complete enough new material to fill the larger 52-page books.

[WernerVonDoom]

Well, I guess it depends on how you look at it. If I work at Marvel and say "make all of these issues 25 cent, and if you can't produce an original book, put in reprinted material", I would say that counts as part of the experiment.

 

But that makes absolutely no sense. If Marvel is gearing up for a company wide shift to NEW MATERIAL in a 52-page format, then the reprints editions would not be "experiments". Something like Marvel Feature 1 and Marvel Spotlight 1, maybe - but not some dead X-Men reprint.

 

Look at some of the BBs and Letter Pages of the time, Stan's biggest gripe and challenge was getting all the artists to complete enough new material to fill the larger 52-page books.

 

True, that was Stan's gripe, but I'm pretty sure the point of the 25 big books was to get DC to follow suit and then switch back down - or to just go to 25 cents for a month or two, so the increase to 15 cents wouldn't be such a shock. Probably a combination of the two. I don't think they cared if it was original material or not.

[awe4one]

Fear #5,#6: To be consistent, the "intent" list should not included either of these since issues 1-4 were double sized.

 

Marvel Feature #1,#2 - Debatable since there are no issues before them. I would include both of them on the list since it is likely that they would have been normal sized if not for the experiment.

 

I added Fear #6 because of the new cover that was created to compliment the pic frame. Just seemed like something that was added due to the experiment...

 

The thing that bothers me about MF, and I almost added it to my list, was that it was coverdated Dec 1971 and still kept the old annual/special 25 cent format. That seemed to me to indicate it was supposed to be a 25 center from the start regardless of the experiment...

 

Jim

[joe_collector]

True, that was Stan's gripe, but I'm pretty sure the point of the 25 big books was to get DC to follow suit and then switch back down

 

Stan is such a schlock-meister, if an earthquake opened up an oil well below Marvel HQ, he'd take credit for it.

 

I'd heard that fairy tale as well, but it's clear from the one-month shift, and then an immediate change back to a standard format, that it wasn't long enough to fool anyone.

 

I heard that Stan had an artists' revolt on his hands, and was forced to go back to a lower page count, and then used his famous brand of revisionist history to take credit for any positives that emerged from it.

 

But you gotta love the guy - if someone cured cancer tomorrow, Stan'd be there telling people about how the reseracher read Marvel comics as a kid, and it's actually Stan who is responsible for the cure.

[WernerVonDoom]

 

Stan is such a schlock-meister, if an earthquake opened up an oil well below Marvel HQ, he'd take credit for it.

 

I'd heard that fairy tale as well, but it's clear from the one-month shift, and then an immediate change back to a standard format, that it wasn't long enough to fool anyone.

 

I heard that Stan had an artists' revolt on his hands, and was forced to go back to a lower page count, and then used his famous brand of revisionist history to take credit for any positives that emerged from it.

 

But you gotta love the guy - if someone cured cancer tomorrow, Stan'd be there telling people about how the reseracher read Marvel comics as a kid, and it's actually Stan who is responsible for the cure.

 

haha that's funny. So I guess the choices are:

 

1. Attempt to sabotage DC 1% chance

2. Attempt to soften the blow of the 15 cent price increase 20% chance

3. Attempt to increase sales by changing the format 79% chance

 

Any others?

[bill999]

If one pulls out a copy of FF #116 and turns to"The Marvel Bullpen Bullitins Page" on page 26 of the comic it appears that Tomb Of Dracula #1 and Marvel Premiere #1 would have been 25 cent squarebound issues if their release dates would not have been pushed back?.