Readership in Comics

[westform]

I keep reading about declining readership in comics today so wanted to broach the subject. Maybe someone of you out there has some answers... maybe not.

 

Anyway, I know the 40's was the Golden age of readership, and that when a lot of present day collectors were reading in the 70's the per comic readership was in the hundreds of thousands for top titles... Ok, I'm guessing the top titles now have readership in the 10's of thousands.

 

But, here's my point and question: There are a ton and I mean a ton more titles now than when I was a kid. We had a spinner rack in 7-11 to choose from. Today, I go into a comic store and there are hundreds of titles to choose from. So, is the actual overall readership down or is that readers are just picking and choosing amongst titles? Maybe getting Spider-man each month isn't so important to as many folks now, but those folks are still buying just as many comics per month, just not the top titles?

 

Is readership really down? I mean, it should be as comics now cost $3, and fewer and fewer comics are aimed at kids. But, is it really? Maybe, older agegroups have taken up the slack?

[aardvark88]

Readership is down in USA and Canada among pre-teens due to distractions like internet, eBay, chatrooms, "free" music downloads, 500 channel satellite tv universe, etc. But manga readership in Japan seems to be incredibly high when a series like Death Note sells 24 Million copies! 2 live action movies were released around 2006 for it in Japan also to record busting ticket sales.

[jbud73]

Readership is really harder to gauge now as I'm pretty retailers cannot send their unsold copies back. What you can gauge is circulation. I will have to look for the thread, but I think someone did a snapshot of circulation at a point in the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s and 2005.

 

Your point over there being more titles is well made, I still think that overall circulation is down. The empirical evidence would be interesting, but with many titles only distributing 25K, thats the equivalent of 1/10th of one Marvel title in the 70s I think.

 

My personal opinion is that we may actually be in the Golden Age of comicdom in terms of backissues, new issues, OA and everything comic related - or we were in the GA very recently. I am basing this on the fact that, while everyone likes to talk the doom and gloom. There is also the phenomenon of compound interest so to speak. The boomers are still alive as are kids born in the 60s 70s and 80s - all now in an adulthood range, with disposable income, etc, etc. So comics can draw on all that for potential industry revenue. Don't get me wrong, I think the industry will decline unless an unforeseen catalyst comes forth due to the lack of interest or new readership in the last 10 years. But somewhere between 1997-2007 may have been the greatest age in terms of revenue to be involved in comics when you include all facets of the demographic (New comics - back issue prices - OA - memorabilia)

 

[Artemaria]

Hi Dan -

 

For many of the reasons you mentioned, I think overall readership is down. I would add videogames (personal, home and online) as another comics competitor.

 

The readership that exists seems to be older than previously, from what I can tell by looking in the comic shops. Also, when I was younger, I used to know alot of younger people who read comics. Now, the younger people I know have other interests.

 

There are other signs as well. One sign of potentially declining readership in the United States is the reduction of the number of comic book shops.

 

In the 1970s and 1980s it seemed like it was fairly easy to find a comic book shop, and they were cropping up all over the place. One would close and another would open.

 

Now, it seems like only the venerable old comic shops with a loyal established clientele survive. And those survive also by selling many many things other than comics (toys, t-shirts, games, statutes, posters, manga, etc.).

 

So, from this, I would say that the readership is down. Your point about the variety of comics put out is an interesting one, but I think it is the same people branching out into different things and spending $100/mo instead of $30/mo on comics.

 

That's my take, but I can't profess to have any knowledge about the accuracy of these assumptions.

 

Best regards.

 

- Artemis

[Mighty Hal]

Is readership down? I think so. My fairly small hometown had three comic shops in 1995. Presently, there's one shop -- and it's twenty miles down the road and in another town.

 

That one shop seems to be surviving but the owner, Frank, is selling toys and t-shirts and collector cars and cards and Playboy magazines...as well as comics. In '95, he was selling only comic books and comic-oriented product. He tells me that he sells manga graphic novels to girls, Magic cards and the like to boys, and comic books primarily to an older audience. From his perspective, he says it's a rare teenager that collects comic books nowadays.

 

By the way, Frank feels that the overall quality of comic art seems to have gotten better and better. (I agree with 'im. Might be hard for Werner Roth to get a job these days.) However, he says that it's the storyline that moves comics off his racks; the cover artist doesn't seem to make a big difference.

[Satya-migration]

Are you talking about readership of monthly comics or are you taking into account trade paperbacks/omnibus/reissue editions as well? Plus there's also the fact that people around the world are reading comics through scans.

 

I am from India, and I know kids going around with 320 Gig harddisks crammed with comics - these are people who follow monthly issues of Fables and Y the Last Man and know their Alan Moores and Will Eisners. Trade paperbacks sell pretty well. This wasn't the case a couple of years ago when the only comics you could get were back-issues of Youngblood and Batman:Knightfall.

 

 

[omegaman]

Are you talking about readership of monthly comics or are you taking into account trade paperbacks/omnibus/reissue editions as well? Plus there's also the fact that people around the world are reading comics through scans.

 

I am from India, and I know kids going around with 320 Gig harddisks crammed with comics - these are people who follow monthly issues of Fables and Y the Last Man and know their Alan Moores and Will Eisners. Trade paperbacks sell pretty well. This wasn't the case a couple of years ago when the only comics you could get were back-issues of Youngblood and Batman:Knightfall.

 

 

Do you mean they are downloading comics to read them? I didn't even know you could do this.

[westform]

Folks, what I'm getting from the response so far, and granted there haven't been many, is that all this stuff about readership declining is purely anecdotal. Yes, readership per ind. title might be down, yes, there might be fewer comic stores out there.... but overall readership might be up given that there are many, many more titles to choose from and many more outlets to buy or read comics. Maybe comic stores are fewer because many people are using subscription services, or buying at mass market outlets like Borders or Walmart,... or even reading their comics online?!? Also, there are many who don't read comics monthly, but instead wait for the trade paperback compilations (I am in this group)!!

 

The bottom line for me so far, I wish we could forgoe the assumed argument that readership is down and that will hurt comic art in the future. There seems not to be any emperical evidence to support this argument. For all we know, readership is way up as evidenced by the uprising of comics in the popular culture via movies, toys, video games, and yes, trade paperbacks. This may in fact be another 'golden age' of comic readership... all taking place under our limited radar.

[delekkerste]

Check this out:

 

http://www.comichron.com/YearlyRankings/tabid/158/Default.aspx

 

Unit sales aren't even back to 1997 levels, let alone the levels seen in the early 1990s (2001 was the trough year).

 

Look at the circulation numbers for the 1960s:

 

http://www.comichron.com/YearlyRankings/1960s/tabid/159/Default.aspx

 

Here's some more articles which either focus or touch on the declining number of comic book readers:

 

http://www.quillandquire.com/blog/index.php/2005/02/07/how-comic-books-have-abandoned-children/

 

http://www.cbc.ca/arts/books/heykidsnocomics.html

 

http://www.sacticket.com/static/movies/news/0627marvel.html

 

In any case, who needs hard data when anyone not wearing rose-colored glasses can see it with their own eyes?

[westform]

Deli; you are always sooo sure of yourself... but are usually wrong. What's up with that? No wait, please don't answer. How many years have you looked for a correction in the comic art market. Take that number and multiply it by how much you have spent all the while in the market and I think they add up to a pretty high bull meter. Seriously, you seem to want to jump into this discussion just to stir something up. I appreciate the links and will wade thru them as I'd like to actually learn something thru this thread, but you seem to already be wearing your usual brown colored glasses...

 

I'm just posing the question here. And, in fact, only made it thru your first link which actually seems to prove what I am suspecting- overall readership may be up. Trade paperback sales- way up! Sales $'s way up! The only stat that was down, but climbing, was top 300 unit sales, which as I think I mentioned several times could be due to the fact that readership is spread out over way more titles than previously.

 

And combined comic and trade sales are way up! I knew I wasn't the only out there that reads comics primarily thru trades.

 

It's not rose colored glasses to question assumptions... I will post more as I read the other links and see if they add anything.

[westform]

Ok, read through the 2nd and 3rd links. The numbers from the 60's aren't given in the same manner as the 90's - today from the first so you can't draw parrallels or divurgences from what i can see.

 

The 3rd link is interesting but has no meat behind it. And, it seems to compare comics for kids from the heyday of the Golden Age ala Little Lulu to today's offerings for young readers. I agree that the real 'Golden age' of comics will most likely never come again. The whole nation of kids, teens and young adults seemed to have embraced comics en masse!

 

I also distress at the lack of offerings for very young readers, it's been a peeve of mine for years and I think it is deplorable that the industry would seem to forget about the youngest among us, but reading the comments to the story it seems that some publishers are taking up the mantle and putting out some quality 'G' material to stir up that base. I've noticed that even Marvel is now offering quite a few young comics ala Powerpack meets Spiderman, etc. These are usually very quick sellers at my comic shop. Also, Clone Wars tradepaperbacks always seem to be sold out at my store. We may never go back to the halcyon days of 'Lulu' in our culture, but we seem to be making inroads, or backroads.

 

But, this doesn't really speak to overall readership. They do mention an older fan base, but shifting comic reading from 6 year olds to 12 year olds will not necessarily doom nostalgia in the years to come. And, I haven't seen any evidence other than anecdotal that the readership base has shifted from teens to adults primarily.

[batman_fan]

I cannot speak for anyone but myself but my buying habit followed this flow.

 

Started collecting in 1972. I bought new comics in Osgood, IN drugstore about 12 miles from the town I lived in. I picked up somewhere between 10 to 15 comics a month depending on how much I could con out of my mom. I picked up used comics in Madison, IN at a book store and would at times grab 20+ comics in a single trip, mostly late 60s and early 70s stuff.

 

Moved to Wyoming in 1976 but had access to a bookstore where I bought comics still, about 10 to 15 a month. Continued until the early 80s when I started to buy from Milehigh which I did for a few years until they screwed me over on Darknight. Once I started College in 1983, I bought from Books A Go Go in Laramie, WY. I picked up up to 40 comics a month, mostly Marvel except the Batman tiles.

 

Graduated in 1987 and moved to New Mexico where I bought somewhere around 50 to 75 comics a month (I picked up doubles on a lot of stuff).

 

Moved to Arizona in 1990 where I continued buying but dropped down to about 50 per month max.

 

Dropped again in about 1994 to about 20 per month

 

Moved Back to New Mexicon in 1999 where I dropped to about 10 per month

 

Moved to San Jose, CA in 2000 where I picked up 7 to 10 books a month

 

Got put on a hold system at a comic store in 2005 where I get 3 (yes 3) book per mont, Batman, Detective, and Batman Begins. I pick up a trade every now and then (I grabbed the complete Nova line recently which brough back some fond memories).

 

In a nutshell, that is my new comic buying habit since I started to the best of my recollection. If I am representative of the general trend, doesn't look good for comics. If I am an oddity (which I acknowledge is very likely) then things may not be so bad.

[westform]

No, I don't think you are an oddity. More likely the norm in comicfans. But, I think that does bode well for comics.... to continue as a going concern comics have to eventually ditch us old-timers and look for new blood. I think it is agreed that new fans have to be born and take up the mantle. So, the question is.... is there a teen out there taking up your slack??

[batman_fan]

Again, I can only speak for my limited view, but I live in a neighborhood with quite a fe teens and none are buyers. They read only on free comic day. It si from all the other pulls on their money.

[AuburnTiger]

I'll chime in. I've only been reading for roughly 7 years, and I'm 23 years young. That would put me in the category of "new blood," I think. I buy 20 to 25 titles a month and the occasional trade. But, where do I get them?

 

http://dcbservice.com

 

Getting 40% off, along with even greater discounts on special items each month, allows me to stretch my comic budget to the limit. Sure, I would like to continue going to the LCS, but it's all about prices. I've been with DCB for 4 years now.

[delekkerste]

I find it interesting that you ascribe one set of conclusions to the unit sales data and then another set to the sales $ data - when the latter is merely the dollar value of those unit sales! And, of course, you haven't stripped out the effect of rising cover prices to even make it an apples-to-apples comparison in the first place. Interesting, very interesting.

 

Clearly, you started this thread having already drawn your own conclusions and no matter what evidence, anecdotal or otherwise, was presented you were going to twist to suit your deeply-held beliefs. That is OK, I'm not going to try and burst your bubble. But, for the rest of us who live in the real world...well, we know that this is 2007, the world has changed, and we've got to accept that and make our decisions accordingly. And, yes, that is something I am "sooo sure of."

 

 

Deli; you are always sooo sure of yourself... but are usually wrong. What's up with that? No wait, please don't answer. How many years have you looked for a correction in the comic art market. Take that number and multiply it by how much you have spent all the while in the market and I think they add up to a pretty high bull meter. Seriously, you seem to want to jump into this discussion just to stir something up. I appreciate the links and will wade thru them as I'd like to actually learn something thru this thread, but you seem to already be wearing your usual brown colored glasses...

 

 

If this is what it means to be "usually wrong" then I don't want to be right! For the record, I haven't been "looking for a correction in the comic art market for years". I've said that prices are not going to keep going up as they have forever and that there will, eventually, be a meaningful correction and a reversion to mean return levels. There's a big difference. In fact, anyone who's been reading my posts in the Water Cooler knows my global liquidity bubble thesis that has and continues to push up asset prices (including art & collectibles). As for when that will end, no one can say for sure, but it sure seems like we are in the late innings.

 

You and your buddy KrazyKat, on the other hand, have been prone to making open-ended, one-sided, blanket statements about how the market can and will keep going up for the rest of our lifetime (at least), and how a deep or lasting correction is not even possible given that people would jump in on every dip. You don't even need to know anything about the comic art market to know which is the more sensible position!

[westform]

You are wrong again... about everything you just said, so I won't take time to rebut every or any point. Hey, here's an idea- go start your own thread and I promise I won't try to hijack or pontificate it to death... Deal? You and I will clearly never agree on anything. Funny thing is when I sat across from you at a collector's dinner you didn't say two words to anyone all night. Just sat there with a rather sullen look on your face. Were's all the verbosity up close and in person... or are just another internet warrior?? I think we know the answer.

 

 

[delekkerste]

Funny thing is when I sat across from you at a collector's dinner you didn't say two words to anyone all night. Just sat there with a rather sullen look on your face. Were's all the verbosity up close and in person... or are just another internet warrior?? I think we know the answer.

 

, nice try Dan - unfortunately for you, I've probably met more than a hundred Forum members in person and they all know that your lame attempt at character assassination is just that. In any case, my recollection of that dinner (SDCC 2006) was quite different - I had plenty of conversations with fellow collectors...just not with you! In fact, you were the only person I can think of who was "sitting there with a rather sullen look on your face".

 

In fact, I was surprised that *you* didn't make any attempt to talk to me; I wasn't even sure who you were until later in the evening when we did introductions. Meanwhile, you must have known who I was since I was introducing myself to the person I was sitting next to right in front of you. You know, that whole "being social" thing again...

 

I tried to add my 2 cents to this thread...yeah, I made a pointy comment but I added the all-forgiving graemlin. Sadly, you couldn't leave it at that and had to air your grievances with me. I'm willing to let it drop if you are, though.

[westform]

That's sad, but you are right on one thing... let's drop it.

[spider9698]

Not to muddy the waters but I think you are both great guys.