Off topic, but looking for opinions from any type of collector......

[COI]

As I've mentioned before, I collect MOC(Mint On Card) GI Joes from the early/mid 80's. I just started doing it seriously earlier this year. Packaged Joes are much rarer than packaged Star Wars figures from the same era because they were mostly bought for/by kids originally, and were not marketed as "collectors items", at least not at first. As with Transformers and other 80's toys, they have apreciated significantly, since 80's kids are starting to earn more $$$, and Joes continue to get tougher and tougher to find. I started watching the market this time last year, and in that time I'm seeing about half as many offered and prices are soaring.

 

But here's the problem; The o-rings(piece of rubber holding the figure together) get dry, become brittle, and eventually snap on "loose" figures. This is common, and are easy to replace. I'm now being told that this will inevitably happen to sealed figures, and some people have said it has already happened to them. This means that supposedly, what you'll eventually have is a sealed package with the figures legs and torso seperated.

 

So I decided last week that I'm not buying MOC anymore, yet I can't seem to resist. This is what I've been up to in the last 24 hours:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3150368564&category=2467&rd=1

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3149241171&category=2467&rd=1

 

I really want to collect MOC. The packaging is a big factor in my nostalgia for them, as I can remember being at the toy store and seeing the huge Joe displays of figures and vehicles. So buying mint "loose" figures dosen't appeal to me. Here's what I'm thinking.........if this is inevitable, do you think it might become accepted to have MOC figures with torso's seperated from legs because of the o-ring? It sounds strange, but I think most people whose MOC figures errupt, will probably open the packages, fix the o-ring, and keep them as MINT figures. So do you think that sealed figures may maintain value even if the legs are loose in the package? Do you think it would become accepted, since they're only an o-ring away from repair anyway?

 

I'm not "investing" but I also don't want to spend a significant amount of money on something and have it become worthless. There are some seasoned collectors on this board, so I'm looking for opinions on what you could potentially see developing in this hobby, based on what I've told you. Thanks.

 

 

[murph0]

I have a huge "MoC" Star Wars collection, some of which are probably 5-10 years older than those G.I. Joes. None of mine have this problem, and I have between 100-150. Is this limited to G.I. Joes? I don't follow the action figure market anymore, so maybe it's occuring with Star Wars figures now too? Anyways, just wanted to tell you it's not happening to mine thus far...

If this is inevitable, I'd still rather have the originally packaged figures. I've never been a big fan of the loose ones. It's just not as interesting/cool/fun.

 

Brian

[COI]

I agree. I find it much more interesting to have MOC.

 

Anyway, the O-ring problem is exclusive to Joes, because they were designed to be ultra poseable and were made with the O-ring in the middle so that the waists can be turned and twisted. I think He-Man figues have the same thing, but I've never owned a single Star Wars figure, and they don't have o-rings as far as I know.

 

BUT, one thing that I've heard is starting to happen to vintage Star Wars(and any MOC figures 20+ years old) is that the glue holding the bubble to the package is starting to deteriorate, and bubbles are just falling loose. However, this dosen't really concern me because it's a gradual process and you can sell/replace the loosening card way before it fully falls off.

[THE_BEYONDER]

I really miss my GIJOE collection......

[COI]

Did you have a carded collection, or do you mean your childhood collection?

[THE_BEYONDER]

The only MOC figures I had was the TIGER FORCE series. I had just under 400 "loose" figures, most of the vehicles and accessories, weapons, directions, etc....

 

I remember Scarlet being one of the harder figures to find....

 

I had a couple hooded commanders, and those mail-in wind-surfing boards as well.

[Bonds25]

I think I'd be afraid to spend big money on a collection that could fall apart in 10 years. And to fix the item, you have to take it out of the sealed pack, which will then reduce it's value even further. Food for thought.

[Bronty]

Interesting. So you've gotten over the o-ring fear, huh? I understand where you're coming from, the packaging is pretty damn cool... I could see it becoming "accepted" as you mention, although it is a risk. I'd be more worried about the glue issue - that would scare the bejeezis out of me. Can you expand on that further - why is it not a problem? Seems to me like the minute the bubble falls off the card a significant portion of the value of the piece will be gone....

[Darthdiesel]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3150368564&category=2467&rd=1

 

I remember one childhood episode where my Scrap Iron took out Clutch in his V.A.M.P. with one of his red rocket thingys... I can't believe the money MOC's are fetching yet I saw a loose complete Roadblock going for $1.99...maybe it's racial

[COI]

Haven't really gotten over the O-ring fear, but I can't seem to just give up collecting, especially since I just started.

 

I got in contact via Email with a guy who has one of the best Mint On Card, Mint in Sealed Box(vehicles) collection I've ever seen. (his website if anyone is interested in looking is dansjoes.com)

He told me that while it does bug him a bit, he's not too worried because sometimes you can't even tell that the o-ring is broken. And interestingly, he mentioned that he's got 2 MOC figures with a broken O-ring; One is from 1994, and the other is from 2002! That may mean that the older series(I only collect series 2-5, which is 1983-1985) may have been made with better materials. So basically, it seems random and not that common. And like Brian, he said he'd still keep and collect his MOC figures, even if the O-ring did snap. I think that once you've set your mind on MOC, there's no going back, which is why I think it might be accepted, maybe not at first, but eventually, if enough of them snap. And it'll make intact figures all the more rare. The guy also said that he thinks they will remain intact as long as you aren't moving them around too much, which makes sense. If no pressure is being applied to them, the rubber just might hold.

 

Ok, the glue issue: The glue keeping the bubble on the cards will erode eventually. Obviously if that happens, the value will decrease significantly because it's no longer MOC, just MINT. But when is the question. It's not going to happen at once, and all the figures I've owned have been TIGHTLY secured to the card with no signs of letting up. And these are 20 year old packages we're talking about. But if it starts, it's going to be gradual, so I can either sell it and replace it with another sturdier one, or I can apply some slight glue and fix the situation, long before the bubble pops off. It's not like I'm going to leave these things unattended for years and years, so I should be able to cut that problem off at the pass.

[COI]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3150368564&category=2467&rd=1

 

I remember one childhood episode where my Scrap Iron took out Clutch in his V.A.M.P. with one of his red rocket thingys... I can't believe the money MOC's are fetching yet I saw a loose complete Roadblock going for $1.99...maybe it's racial

 

It depends on what condition that Roadblock was in, and which version it was. There are several Roadblocks, just as there are several versions of most of the figures. After series 5(1986) they start getting really cheap, really fast, with MOC's going as low as $10.

 

See, no racism(and I almost won this one)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=2467&item=3147230035

 

But the difference between vintage MOC and Loose is quite large. A MOC original Snake Eyes has sold for $1500 ungraded, but you can buy a loose/complete version for $50.

 

But that Scrap Iron is nothing......check these out:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=2467&item=3145984225

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=2467&item=3147583525

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=2467&item=3148517608

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=2467&item=3147230003

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=2467&item=3147230014

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=2467&item=3147230045

 

Kind of makes you wish you never opened your toys as a kid.

 

 

[Darthdiesel]

Those auctions you listed brings tears to my eyes..the memories...so AFA grading can substantially boost the price as well Thanks for sharing...these are great to own! I still have the pleasure of playng with my loose ones...I'll be sharing them with my little Logan when the time comes

[jhumd-migration]

Interesting topic! I used to have a large MOC SW collection, about 300 figures, from the 12 back SW through ROTJ, even dabbled in the Ewok and Droids line. I began to sell off my collection around the release of Ep1 and the rest around the release of Ep2.

 

The MOC figures will definitely maintain a value above their loose counterparts. In the event of figure seperation or dismemberment within the blister, this will be looked upon as a defect and naturally will command less than the same MOC figure without the problem. I stopped collecting when AFA had their 'old labels' and only included an overall grade. If I'm not mistaken, this has since changed and they include the breakdown grades for the card, blister condition, and figure to arrive at the overall grade. (This makes sense, hint anybody!) So I believe this will reduce the overall grade according to AFA and many collectors. (I'm thinking 'eye appeal', and ' What defect do you despise most ' on the ' toy fan boy' chat rooms). I've seen many SW figures in the past go for much less money if frosting was present on the figures....more anal collectors would also prefer the weapons firmly affixed to the blister with tape and not loose.

 

IMO, even if the figure eventually has an o-ring problem and dismemberment, they would never become worthless, and by far, will retain significant value over their loose, but o-ring repaired counterparts. Good luck picking up those Joes!

[scottish]

Good Lord man! I played with Joes around the age of 7-8. Man was that so cool! Can't remember what happened to them though I know I don't have them any more.

[chrisco37]

I used to have a ton of Joe's. Some of those auctions are crazy! The first Joe I remember buying was Destro (yeah, not a "Joe" but, you know what I mean. And the badguys were always cooler looking). My best friend had a bunch too. I think most of ours were taken apart and rebuilt and newer, "cooler" characters. Many of them met with untimely deaths in horrible car crashes (no Joe or Cobra vehicle could with stand the awesome, indestructable power of the Fisher Price Safari Jeep! ). Ahhhh....memories!

 

Ooops...never mind! Found it.

 

Chris

[THE_BEYONDER]

Many of them met with untimely deaths in horrible car crashes (no Joe or Cobra vehicle could with stand the awesome, indestructable power of the Fisher Price Safari Jeep! ). Ahhhh....memories!

 

 

 

I've still got my Fisher Price stuff....

[chrisco37]

Those things were rugged, man! They could smash and Joe toy to bits and have nary a scratch on the hood.

 

Chris

[Bronty]

Those are some impressive sales, AK.

 

Certainly no 1982 funnybook is worth that kind of money... food for thought!

 

I guess if you can manage that glue risk and if the o-ring risk isn't as pervasive as you originally thought, you should be OK. Although prices are already high, I do like MOC Joes and MIB transformers in terms of their potential to hold value and increase in value over time. Obviously the first stage of rapid price appreciation is over, but they should still have some room to grow with collectors getting older and having more pocket change to spend on nostalgic items. And you know I practice what I preach in terms of liking the potential of mint 80s collectibles

 

*As long as you can manage the o-ring and glue seal risks* I wouldn't be too concerned about your investment -it should hold up well.

 

What's your estimation of the current state of the Joe market and how long have you been watching it? (buying at the top of a cycle is always a concern).

 

Dan

[Kevin76]

I remember a friend of mine opening up the Gi Joe Headquarters for his 7th birthday.... And my 16 y/o Brother at the time saying "he's your stupid transformer" as he hands me a G1 MISB Megatron... And of course being in child world trying to talk my parents in a Masters of the Universe Snake Mountain,they wanted me to get Castle GreySkull cause it was cheaper,and my dad saying to my mother "well did you talk him into it"? she said No...

[comicartfan]

I used to be a big toy collector of Batman and Superman animated series stuff and if the figures started falling apart, then i probably wouldn't buy the figure. I also remember that alot of the MOC Megos from the 70's also have a problem with legs coming off occasionally.....especially the Hulk figure. I think it does impact the value, but there are certianly not a shortage of GI Joe collectors out there.