Off topic, but looking for opinions from any type of collector......

[COI]

Those are some impressive sales, AK.

 

Certainly no 1982 funnybook is worth that kind of money... food for thought!

 

I guess if you can manage that glue risk and if the o-ring risk isn't as pervasive as you originally thought, you should be OK. Although prices are already high, I do like MOC Joes and MIB transformers in terms of their potential to hold value and increase in value over time. Obviously the first stage of rapid price appreciation is over, but they should still have some room to grow with collectors getting older and having more pocket change to spend on nostalgic items. And you know I practice what I preach in terms of liking the potential of mint 80s collectibles

 

*As long as you can manage the o-ring and glue seal risks* I wouldn't be too concerned about your investment -it should hold up well.

 

What's your estimation of the current state of the Joe market and how long have you been watching it? (buying at the top of a cycle is always a concern).

 

Dan

 

Because many of us remember Joes as kids, seeing these auctions for MOC stuff becomes a shock. One of the first figures I watched when I started tracking the market was a MOC Cobra Commander AFA graded 90 NM/MT. I remember thinking "no way is this Joe going over $300". It ended at $950. And that was last year. If a Cobra Commander in AFA 90 showed up today, I would suspect it would hit $1500-2K without breaking a sweat.

 

As for the cycle, I've been giving it a lot of thought. The difference between these and high grade comics is that you see VERY few "flippers" or short term investors. So basically, once a figure is taken off the market, there's a good chance you won't be seeing that figure again, at least not for a LONG time. These figures have a strong significance to our age group as Darth and some others have illustrated.

 

Since I've been watching(mid2002) there has been a steadily decline in the number of MOC brought to auction, along with a steady increase in prices. Meaning, big prices don't seem to be enough to get collectors to unload stuff, which tells me that the collector base is very hard core. Also, the amount of people collecting MOC compared to loose, is very small. This can be attributed to the fact that collectors range(on average) from the ages of 16-35, and although many collectors are beginning to have some disposable income, a large majority still can't afford MOC, MISB items, but they would like to.

 

And these items are genuinly tough to find. That Scrap Iron I bought is only the second one I've seen for sale this entire year, and the original BIN price was $500. And there's no dealers for MOC. If you look around, there's no one carrying a decent inventory of these figures, and when you do, they're bought fast. And get this; there are people buying MOC and actually opening them. I don't know if this is still a common occurence, but it has happened in the recent past. These lunatics do this because they want an untouched, MINTY MINT loose figure. It's crazy, but it happened a lot up until the last couple of years, making MOC all the more rare. I bet it still happens here and there.

 

Bottome line: I can sum it up by saying that it dosen't seem to me that we're at the top of the cycle yet, and I definetly think that these will continue to have legs.

 

As for my collecting, I have no interest in loose figures for many reasons. Like I mentioned before, the packaging is a big thing to me, even more so than the figures themselves because I didn't have tons of Joes as a kid, but always saw them in the toy stores. So that's where my nostalgia is linked. Also, since I'm only interested in pre-86' stuff, I could aquire all the loose MINT figures I want in a matter of a couple of weeks, because there is a severe price difference, and no shortage of loose figures available. The challenge/thrill of the hunt is non-existent to me unless they're MOC. So basically, if I don't collect MOC, I don't collect.

[Bronty]

Verrrrrryy interesting. Your experience in Joes has some major similarities to my experience in sealed NES:

 

- no dealers

- prices have shot up in the past year

- nobody seems to be selling anything of true quality - all the quality items get sucked into collections as soon as they are made available

- very little short term selling. I know of only one guy who attempts 'flipping' and his reputation is (deservedly) mud. Makes Chuck look altruistic.

 

My question to you would be: is there a big offline market? I can tell you that a huge chunk of the real quality NES items get sold privately. None of the truly primo stuff ever makes it to eBay. Also a lot of trading going on, kind of like the original art market in that collectors will only let a certain game go if they get another title they want as part of the return package. Does this 'trade only' mentality exist in Joes as well? E.g. 'I'll only give up this storm shadow if your cobra commander is part of the deal. Otherwise it's not for sale.'

 

...ever thought about collecting transformers? They're pretty damn cool too. I also love the 2 foot tall Shogun Warriors from the late 70s. I used to have a ROOMFUL of shogun warriors stuff (5" inch figures, 2' foot figures, vehicles, everything) that my Dad used to buy on trips to Japan and we gave it almost all of it away when we moved to Canada (I was 5, my parents wouldn't let us kids cart all those toys halfway across the world). Oh, the humanity!!! Each of those pieces would be worth $50-$500 loose nowadays. The only silver lining is that we got to keep one toy each on the trip over here to Canada, so my brother and I still have a boxed Raydeen and a boxed Goldrake. Goldrake was only sold in Japan, Italy, Germany?, France? (never in North America) so he is rare/valuable.

 

Dan

[COI]

I'm not surprised about the similarities. I think Joe collecting is slightly more advanced than NES collecting, but they're driven by the same demographic, and I think they're headed in a similar direction.

 

As for Transformers; They are cool, but I was never that into them as a kid. Then, as now, I prefered more realistic stuff. But I may eventually look to pick up a couple of "Keys" like a sealed G1 Optimus Prime, Megatron, and Star Scream(always my favorite on the show).

[Bronty]

Yeah, that sounds right. Same demographic and I do agree that Joe collecting is more advanced... perhaps partly because they are early 80s instead of late 80s items.. so the collectors are older/have more $

[Bronty]

PS what is the #1 most desirable MOC Joe? Early Cobra Commander?

 

What about the #1 vehicle? etc.

 

I.e. I'd be interested in hearing about the hierachy... what's the Action 1? The Tec 27? The Marvel #1?

[COI]

Good question, and I'm going to ask you the same question with NES Games.

 

Ok, using Dansjoes.com (Unreal collection) I'll rank the top pieces as I see it, and link you to the pics:(When looking at the pics, hold your mouse arrow on them to see the backs of the packages/boxes)

 

Top Figures(from the best figures, down):

 

Snake Eyes (Swivel Arm/straightarm) V.1

 

Cobra Commander(Swivel Arm/straightarm) V.1

 

Firefly V1 (My personal favorite)

 

Stormshadow V1

 

Snake Eyes V2

 

Duke

 

Incase you're wondering, here's the deal with Swivel arm/Straight Arm: In 1982, the first batch of figures was released, including Cobra Commander and Snake Eyes. They had straight arms, meaning the arms couldn't swivel around. Then in 1983, they released the exact same batch, except with the new "Swivel arm battle grip". From then on, all figures were made with swivel arms. As for which is more desirable, I would say that even though the straight arms are rarer, the swivel versions tend to command more. Personally, I have no interest in the straight arm figures, and totally ignore the first series.

 

Vehicles

 

I haven't seen as many MIB vehicles, so this is just my guess based on conversations I've had, and some observations.

 

U.S.S Flagg Aircraft Carrier

This playset MIB would be the mother load, and it's absolutely HUGE. Over 1K easy.

 

Cobra Terrordrome

Probably the coolest playset ever made. Another impossible find in MISB, and prices go through the roof.

 

Joe Headquarters

 

Joe Skystriker

Memories......

 

Cobra Rattler

IMO the coolest of all the vehicles.

 

Cobra Night Raven

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bronty]

That skystriker and that rattler bring back HUGE memories! I was never the biggest fan of Joe toys, I liked bigger toys (as I said, my favorites were the 2' foot tall shogun warriors) so the 3 3/4" inch action figures never really appealed to me much. HOWEVER, those vehicles were WICKED AWESOME (use your Boston 'Nooomaaaahhh' accent here). That skystriker was the most realistic jet... put other toy vehicles to shame...

 

with the exception of transformers' jetfire, which was equally cool. These pics don't do it justice, because the removable red booster packs (for deep space) obfuscate the design:

 

http://www.menet.umn.edu/~ngo/jetfire.html

 

Here's the goldrake I told you about, btw:

 

Goldrake Write-up Goldrake pics

 

As to NES hierarchy, well... it's too early to tell. Some games are very very common, some rare so the games that had the biggest impact on the collective consciousness aren't necessarily the most valuable. Besides, as I mentioned in a PM, there were just a shade under 800 titles released. 8 or 10 or about 1% of those titles are non-existent in their sealed state as far as anyone knows. If you found any one of those (good luck) you would have the completionists at your utter mercy. So the answer to your question will depend on what is found in the years to come. In the unsealed state the #1 item would be the gold Nintendo world championship cart. Sometime in the 1980s Nintendo held a championship tourney... so only participants received a world championship cartridge, of which there were 2 varieties: gold (128 copies) and grey (256 copies I believe). So not only are the only owners of these carts HARDCORE gamers, but also the carts obviously have personal meaning to the owners, i.e. the memories from the tourney. You'd need at least 2K to bribe somebody out of one. I don't think these ever came sealed though.

 

[COI]

If you like big, that U.S.S Flag aircraft carrier would freak you out.

 

For me right now, the size of this stuff actually bothers me because I've designated a certain room for my collections, and this room is getting filled to the brim, and I don't even have any vehicles yet! I like collecting, and I'm not ashamed of it or anything, but I don't want to get to the point where I'm using MISB pieces as cofee tables because I ran out of room. I think it would kill the mood if I brought a girl to my place, and she had to rest her drink on a MISB Cobra Terror Drome.

 

(As a side note, pretty much every girl I've dated either didn't care that I collected comics, or actually found it interesting or "cute", probably because it's a sharp contrast to their first impressions of me. That whole stereotype about girls getting turned off by guys who collect stuff hasn't really affected me. I think that if a girl is turned off by a hobby, it's probably YOU that's mostly the problem. BUT, there's a time and a place to talk about that stuff, and bringing a girl to your place for the first time is NOT that time.)

[Bronty]

.... OH BABY, IS THAT A RATTLER IN YOUR POCKET?

 

I agree that the first time she's over is NOT the time to discuss it, but I never have that problem.... I just use the storage place at my parent's place so my own place is never cluttered

 

I'm off work and writing exams for six months so I'm actually back at home temporarily (since I have no $ coming in for six months and don't want to dwindle savings), but when I am on my own I never have a comic in my entire place!

 

After all, why should I overcrowd MY closets?

[Amazing_Bag_man]

I have a huge "MoC" Star Wars collection, some of which are probably 5-10 years older than those G.I. Joes. None of mine have this problem, and I have between 100-150. Is this limited to G.I. Joes? I don't follow the action figure market anymore, so maybe it's occuring with Star Wars figures now too? Anyways, just wanted to tell you it's not happening to mine thus far...

If this is inevitable, I'd still rather have the originally packaged figures. I've never been a big fan of the loose ones. It's just not as interesting/cool/fun.

 

Brian

 

I concur as well....