Are we really that bad?

[DrWatson]

Try visiting some other boards sometime. This place is friendly and helpful compared to a lot of other boards.

 

A small intrusion from the "gone silent" camp...

 

The question posed is "Are we really that bad?"

 

Well, after the Ewert-thing, for a time, this board was different and much more open and welcoming. There was a strong sense collectors were watching out for each other and the hobby. The amount of constructive information-sharing overshadowed conversation-killers who tag thoughtful exchange as "anti-cgc" or some silly variant.

 

But it wouldn't last and you could feel the wagons begining to circle. Sloooowly the hostility creeped right back in. An Amendment was added to the "Moderation Policies" , and over time the board of today was carefully molded.

 

A better question to ask yourselves is "Are we really that good?"

If you define "good" as shoring up group-think for a small niche of like-minded folks, then yeah, you're very good.

 

If you define "good" as watching each other’s backs, even if you happen disagree, because the hobby is shared by all, then the answer is… no. No, you're not as good as you once were. And no, you're not as good as you could be.

I expected that from you.

[Davenport]

I expected that from you.

Ooops, sorry, I didn't realize your question is rhetorical. My bad.

[drbanner]

But I will say that most of those who have been jettisoned recently made the mistake of questioning CGC's integrity when making their respective points in whatever argument that was taking place.

That's really the difference between now and then, "then" there was a vocal minority who placed the blame of the hobby's woes at CGC's feet, "now" the blame is placed where it should be - at the feet of those who perpetuate the scams. There's plenty of boarders who go the extra mile to assist those done wrong in this hobby (foolkiller and esquire come to mind), and there are continuous posts warning about ebay scammers and those that are on the fringes of behaving ethically (marvelseller, or whatever his current ID is comes to mind).

 

Much of the debate of "Should I CGC or not?", "Is CGC good or not?", "Is pressing restoration or not?" has been played out over the last 6+ years. As with any new endeavour, there were lots of questions and differing viewpoints about CGC in the early days that have sort of settled down over time. One example is the "Big Number" grade labels, at the time it was the end of the world to some, but now it's accepted and there's nothing wrong with it, it makes sense.

 

Wait until CGC raise fees, adds a restoration metric, or whatever - change itself causes much consternation and drama on the boards, whether the change is good or bad.

[DrWatson]

I expected that from you.

Ooops, sorry, I didn't realize your question is rhetorical. My bad.

No, it isn't. I'm just a good judge of who will post what.

[blazingbob]

Let's remember that much of this is to generate business.

 

The registry promotes competition amongst collectors because everybody wants the best and have you ever seen a "raw" registry set? In addition since Heritage is a part owner where else to troll but the registry set proclaiming how much money they can make you if you decide to sell your set.

 

Census's provide the "how many" and "How much" speculation.

 

GPAnalysis gives collectors a historical snapshot of what books have sold for thereby giving the collector more information in buying/selling CGC books.

 

None of this is new, the model was already established for coins and cards. What worked before is working again.

 

The forum which is monitored promotes a "Let's get together" network. The network is a good idea that promotes the CGC cares about the hobby as well as get's the word out. Forum dinners are a way to Network, they have the mayor of PR - Mr. Steve Borock.

 

The pom pom threads of what something sold for, Grading contests, the Virtual comicon's, selling threads are all publicity. All for the cost of maintaining the servers.

 

We all want to believe that the "CGC entity" as it exists cares about you the collectors. Business is business, they care so long as submissions continue to come in.

 

 

 

 

[DrWatson]

CGC isn't the only one who benefits from this network. From my own experience, I can tell you that the dealers who post here have benefited from the exposure.

 

I didn't know you were on the planet.

[namisgr]

We all want to believe that the "CGC entity" as it exists cares about you the collectors.

 

Not exactly, but rather we want to believe that CGC has the best interests of the hobby in mind - after all, what's better for collectors ought to be better for the long-term health and vitality of the CGC product. It is over the best interests of the hobby that certain pressing discussions and hints of conflict-of-interest become problematic for some of us, and where we might choose to disagree or become critical of CGC or one of its policies.

[TupennyConan]

In addition since Heritage is a part owner where else to troll but the registry set proclaiming how much money they can make you if you decide to sell your set.

 

Heritage is a part owner of what?

[namisgr]

In addition since Heritage is a part owner where else to troll but the registry set proclaiming how much money they can make you if you decide to sell your set.

 

Heritage is a part owner of what?

 

CGC

[TupennyConan]

In addition since Heritage is a part owner where else to troll but the registry set proclaiming how much money they can make you if you decide to sell your set.

 

Heritage is a part owner of what?

 

CGC

 

This is news to me. I guess I need to spend less time under my rock.

[Davenport]

We all want to believe that the "CGC entity" as it exists cares about you the collectors.

 

Not exactly, but rather we want to believe that CGC has the best interests of the hobby in mind - after all, what's better for collectors will be better for the long-term health and vitality of the CGC product.

You've touched on something very blurry in the marketplace. Does CGC produce a "CGC Product"? Or does CGC provide an unbiased independent Service?

 

Product or Service? Which is it?

 

In the begining it was touted as an idependent service, an inspection of a product (a comic book). Today it seems devolved into a product itself, with all manner of marketing-caveats attached. Try to discuss the Inspection Service and it might harm the Product...

[trmoore54]

In addition since Heritage is a part owner where else to troll but the registry set proclaiming how much money they can make you if you decide to sell your set.

 

Heritage is a part owner of what?

 

CGC

 

Not that most people won't think it's general good policy, but that is why as well you will never see a PGX book on the Heritage website...

[MK Ultra]

I like it here, but I don't post as much as I used to. I feel that my particular collecting style doesn't really mesh as well with what I perceive the vast majority focus on, so I have less to contribute and find less posts to participate in.

 

However, I find most/all of the people here friendly and helpful.

[trmoore54]

I'll speak to this as a relative newcomer...been a participant here on the boards for about a year...

 

I asked a couple of comic-book collecting friends who I met through ebay (have spoken over the phone and lots of emails but have never met in person) and they said they did not belong as the boards were generally an elitist group largely comprised of (comic-collecting) geeks and freaks...

 

Well, that would probably be true of a lot of blog sites, and perhaps moreso with comic collectors, but I thought the potential for knowledge about the hobby, as well as general networking, would be worth my while. Bear in mind, I don't know anyone personally and have never been to a Comic-con and have never met anyone here personally. But I will say, that I feel like I've made a lot of friends that if I ever do meet someday would be just that. It's still fun to share opinions in this modern, disconnected world through this format, although I'll be the first to admit it does not take the place of real human interaction...but a lot of you do just that and do know each other personally. Sometimes one feels a little on the outside of that, and that's only logical and natural...it would be the same in reality.

 

Another large benefit is that trust can be generated and that is nothing to scoff at. I have found that when one can establish a track record of honesty and delivery, in terms of buying and selling books, that is worth a lot. I, like many others, have grown quite disenchanted with eBay, and I'm not saying this place is perfect, but it's a refreshing alternative. The outing of scams through this medium is a particularly helpful endeavor for the hobby.

 

The acts of kindness for me have far outweighed any acts of negativity...and that even goes for joecollector referring to me as a brain-stemless doofus... This just speaks to drbanner's apt observation that many people just fear change, and attack it for purely that (and yes, all change carries with it potential up and down sides...).

 

All in all it's been a positive experience for me...hope it remains so and hope to get to a con one of these days...

[MedicAR]

Is there as much propaganda on these boards as there is on the CGC boards? I've always felt strange when I viewed their forums, it seemed to be one big commercial for having your books graded and I was never sure who was a company boy and who wasn't. Plus there seemed to be some real nasty trolling going on over there.

 

I read this on another comics board and thought are we really that bad? I mean the site is hosted by CGC and their main objective is to sell their service, but I don't see it as one big commercial. Furthermore, I think a lot of the trolling members are no longer here. I know we kid each other and give one another a good ribbing from time to time, but I haven't seen anything that I would call down right malicious. So, I pose the question, "Are we really that bad?"

 

Maybe it's time for a little introspection?

 

I'm curious as to where the original quote came from, but I won't be losing any sleep wondering.

 

As to the question at hand, no we're not that bad. Having been an active member for about a year though, I still feel mostly like an outsider beyond the Signature Series area. I had always considered an autograph on a comic to be a defect because "some dude wrote on my book" but the witnesses and fans for CGC SS won me over, I'd say 1 in 5 of my CGC books are now Signature Series.

 

I don't feel there is a lot of propaganda here either. At the same time, I wouldn't go to a Chicago Cubs website to learn about the Yankees or to put down the Cubs, that's just dumb. Constructive criticism is a good thing and helps the hobby grow. From where I stand, I would say that most folks here are either CGC dealers or fans in the first place, so there will be a lot about CGC as some make their livelihood from it and other build their collections on it. I know there are still some of the "non-converted" but they generally bring a lot to the table too. There's room for everybody!

 

I was a CGC hater for a long time. To me, comics are to be read and enjoyed. I recognized them for their collectibility, but their primary function was to be read. eBay has changed a lot of that, and aside from generally modern stuff that I missed locally, everything I buy on eBay is CGC. It serves to protect me and the buyer (as long as it is properly packaged) and make eBay a little safer in that I know what I'm getting. If I have a complaint abut CGC it would be that their grading standards are secret. We can pretty much figure them out at this point, but I still prefer that we all use the same playbook, not that half the team has to figure out how the other half is playing the game just by watching.

 

As to feeling like an outsider beyond the SS forums I don't know the history between members and don't generally know when something is a joke and when something is a true jab until it is too late. Something I really try to keep in mind on this or any message board is that my voice is gone. The reader has no inflection from me, no facial or body language cues to make it clear that I'm kidding or that I'm not angry. Smileys help, but it's still not the same. This may be where the idea of lots of trolling comes from, but it's hard to say.

 

I'm happy here, even if I don't always "get it" and I'm stunned at how much knowledge is available here. I think that given enough time, usually a day or two, anything about this hobby can be answered here. That is really amazing.

[MedicAR]

Wow....a lot of posts while I was typing my reply......

 

You've touched on something very blurry in the marketplace. Does CGC produce a "CGC Product"? Or does CGC provide an unbiased independent Service?

 

Product or Service? Which is it?

 

In the begining it was touted as an idependent service, an inspection of a product (a comic book). Today it seems devolved into a product itself, with all manner of marketing-caveats attached. Try to discuss the Inspection Service and it might harm the Product...

 

Initially, I would have said CGC provided a service. With the advent of things like CGC Signature Series, though it has become (devolved?....I don't know....) a product unto itself.

 

I don't think that discussing the service hurts the product in the least. Consturctive criticism is good for everyone in that collectors know what to watch for and CGC can learn what they need to improve on.

[TheShadowKnows]

Is there as much propaganda on these boards as there is on the CGC boards? I've always felt strange when I viewed their forums, it seemed to be one big commercial for having your books graded and I was never sure who was a company boy and who wasn't. Plus there seemed to be some real nasty trolling going on over there.

 

I read this on another comics board and thought are we really that bad? I mean the site is hosted by CGC and their main objective is to sell their service, but I don't see it as one big commercial. Furthermore, I think a lot of the trolling members are no longer here. I know we kid each other and give one another a good ribbing from time to time, but I haven't seen anything that I would call down right malicious. So, I pose the question, "Are we really that bad?"

 

Maybe it's time for a little introspection?

Hardly.Some of these members on that other board need to grow up.Maybe actually kiss a girl.Get out of your moms basement and realize there is indeed a outside world.

 

What.. are you channeling JC? He is the only member allowed to make "mama's basement jokes", or haven't you been keeping up?

No offense JC :blush:I was channeling William Shatner on SNL

[TheShadowKnows]

Is there as much propaganda on these boards as there is on the CGC boards? I've always felt strange when I viewed their forums, it seemed to be one big commercial for having your books graded and I was never sure who was a company boy and who wasn't. Plus there seemed to be some real nasty trolling going on over there.

 

I read this on another comics board and thought are we really that bad? I mean the site is hosted by CGC and their main objective is to sell their service, but I don't see it as one big commercial. Furthermore, I think a lot of the trolling members are no longer here. I know we kid each other and give one another a good ribbing from time to time, but I haven't seen anything that I would call down right malicious. So, I pose the question, "Are we really that bad?"

 

Maybe it's time for a little introspection?

Hardly.Some of these members on that other board need to grow up.Maybe actually kiss a girl.Get out of your moms basement and realize there is indeed a outside world.

No offense JC :blush:I was channling William Shatner on SNL

 

What.. are you channeling JC? He is the only member allowed to make "mama's basement jokes", or haven't you been keeping up?

[bronzilla]

I dont submit books for grading, although I do buy slabbed books on occasion.

I have never felt in any way anything but good vibes from most forum members.

I apreciate the venue given to us by CGC and apreciate the open views by most towards slabbed and raw comics.

My two cents!

[MatMarvelV1]

This board is a good place, it lets people who enjoy comics come together and talk about them, show off new acquisitions (who else cares, anyone in my real life just glazes over if I start to mention comics) and trade with each other.

 

Surely that is the essense of it and the rest doesn't really matter, as in any walk of life you meet people you like and you don't like - deal with it using a sense of perspective (something I was lacking) and move on.

 

Most members have been very kind to me and helped me considerably, some haven't - the dogs have been given your scent and are on their way first class on the QE II

 

The hobby matters, not the politics and the business