How do you tell if a book has been cleaned?

[Mr. Zipper]

Except for the fact, that if done improperly, dry cleaning can really damage a book in many ways. I really don't like that noobs are encouraged to do it, and personally, I hate buying books that have been dry-cleaned . . . give me good ol' spine dirt every time, thank you

 

Yup. I've received MANY books with the white areas on the perimeter of the back cover obviously scuffed up. Hold it up to a raking light and you can plainly see the rub lines.

[divad]

Except for the fact, that if done improperly, dry cleaning can really damage a book in many ways. I really don't like that noobs are encouraged to do it, and personally, I hate buying books that have been dry-cleaned . . . give me good ol' spine dirt every time, thank you

 

Yup. I've received MANY books with the white areas on the perimeter of the back cover obviously scuffed up. Hold it up to a raking light and you can plainly see the rub lines.

 

Yeah, and you find this from even the ahem, best, sellers . . .

[FFB]

Sorry Ze, I actually missed a post. My bad.

 

 

Piper, the reason cleaning gets a PLOD is because the book is dis-assembled AND the paper is treated with a solvent or water. Dry cleaning is basically removal of dirt with an erasure or similar. It's tough to detect and really does not do anything to the book. It's almost like simply wiping off a layer of dust.

 

R.

 

 

It's not "almost like simply wiping off a layer of dust." That IS a kind of dry cleaning. Dry cleaning is the removal of surface grime, which may or may not be bonded with the surface of the cover. Wiping off dust is still "dry cleaning." Any conservator of paper artifacts will tell you this. The only reason comic collectors argue about this is out of ignorance and out of fear that any kind of "restoration" will cause the value of a book to drop.

[FFB]

Reglossing is another issue, many times depending on what was used to resize the cover it can feel stiff, too thick, glossy or even worse brush marks. But if done correctly you should not notice in hand anything other then a supple semi glossy cover.

 

Great info Kenny!

This last point re: reglossing always scares me (because I don't know enough about it). I often hear in the description with older books FS or on ebay "Great gloss on this GA beauty!" and I wonder how common/easy reglossing is?

 

I think sometimes you will see a comic that has been sprayed with something to make it look shiny. The question would be is how does it feel more then how does it look.

 

 

Well that is where I'm unsure. GA books have such a different feel to them than BA or even moderns of which I'm more familiar.

That along with the aging of the gloss/sizing make it almost impossible (for me) to tell from just the feel.

 

I guess some questions I'd like to know are:

1. Are most GA covers as glossy on both sides (inside and out) to begin with?

2. "If" a gloss was sprayed on would it be only on the outside front and back cover, or would it also be applied to the inside?

3. If an outside cover of a GA book was much glossier than the inside cover, would that be a good indication that it may have been reglossed?

4. I notice certain inks on covers appear dull when held at an angle to the light, some blacks for instance. If a cover appears totally gloss covered, is that a sign of reglossing/resizing?

 

Lots of great info in this thread. Let me take a crack at some of these questions.

 

1) "Gloss" is caused by different things. Comic book cover stock is a different kind of paper from the interior paper. Cover stock is impregnated with a kind of clay (kaolinite) and rolled between heavy, smooth steel rollers, which makes the paper shiny (think of glossy magazine stock). So some of the gloss is caused by the shiny paper. The inks can also be glossy, and different ink compositions can have higher levels of more glossing agents than others. That is why you will sometimes see different levels of gloss in different inked and uninked areas of the cover when you hold certain books at a raking angle and look at the light reflecting off of them.

 

2) If gloss is being sprayed onto a cover to regloss it, the person who is doing the reglossing is not a professional. Which means, of course, that there are no rules. It might be reglossed on the outside, the outside and inside, on the front cover only, on a part of the cover. The biggest thing is that a reglossed cover will not look natural if an actual gloss is being applied to the cover.

 

3) It's a maybe, not anything definite. There tends to be more of an ink layer on the outer cover, so it isn't uncommon for the outer cover to have a different look to the gloss than the interior cover that only has black ink in the text areas.

 

4) Not necessarily. Being glossy all over does not mean it was reglossed. What matters is whether or not it looks natural. Describing various levels of gloss on a comic is like trying to describe the difference between how two glasses of chocolate milk taste. You might be able to tell the difference side by side, but to put that difference into words? Tough to do. Just pay a lot of attention as you look at books that you know are unrestored, and if you see the same issue looking very different from a known, unrestored copy of the same book, you may have cause to be skeptical.

[Mr. Zipper]

Except for the fact, that if done improperly, dry cleaning can really damage a book in many ways. I really don't like that noobs are encouraged to do it, and personally, I hate buying books that have been dry-cleaned . . . give me good ol' spine dirt every time, thank you

 

Yup. I've received MANY books with the white areas on the perimeter of the back cover obviously scuffed up. Hold it up to a raking light and you can plainly see the rub lines.

 

Yeah, and you find this from even the ahem, best, sellers . . .

 

I don't know about "best sellers," but it happens in the marketplace a whole lot.

 

Of all the books I've bought here in the past 6 months, I'd say 25% were either flatter than a pancake, had signs of aggressive dry cleaning, or both.

 

Looks like lots of DIY work out there.

[Ze-man]

Except for the fact, that if done improperly, dry cleaning can really damage a book in many ways. I really don't like that noobs are encouraged to do it, and personally, I hate buying books that have been dry-cleaned . . . give me good ol' spine dirt every time, thank you

 

Yup. I've received MANY books with the white areas on the perimeter of the back cover obviously scuffed up. Hold it up to a raking light and you can plainly see the rub lines.

 

Yeah, and you find this from even the ahem, best, sellers . . .

 

I don't know about "best sellers," but it happens in the marketplace a whole lot.

 

Of all the books I've bought here in the past 6 months, I'd say 25% were either flatter than a pancake, had signs of aggressive dry cleaning, or both.

 

Looks like lots of DIY work out there.

 

I think the term "aggressive" is the key word here. Normally dry cleaning should not be visible unless you are scrubbing too hard in one place too long, or in the wrong area.

 

Of course I will now have to go back and see who you bought books from in the past 6 months and figure out whose books you bought that showed signs of improper pressing /dry cleaning.

 

Or you could just tell us and start a flame war!

 

 

 

[Ze-man]

I cannot believe I forgot to mention one of the most important visible clues in a book that was possibly cleaned/wet washed, it is too small.

 

Not to say that all covers that appear to be too small were washed. But if you factor in the cover as a whole, the feel, the look AND the size it can help determine if a book was cleaned.

 

When you wet wash a cover you are washing away material, and as the paper absorbs moisture it swells, and depending on how it is dried contracts.. The result of this is a cover that just looks a tad bit small, and many times can even lead one to think it was trimmed, when in fact it was not.

 

I will try and dig up some scans that show this effect.

 

 

[Jayman]

Thanks FFB for shedding some light on reglossing!

I don't remember this topic being hit upon in the past and was curious about any tell-tale signs of it being done!

[divad]

Except for the fact, that if done improperly, dry cleaning can really damage a book in many ways. I really don't like that noobs are encouraged to do it, and personally, I hate buying books that have been dry-cleaned . . . give me good ol' spine dirt every time, thank you

 

Yup. I've received MANY books with the white areas on the perimeter of the back cover obviously scuffed up. Hold it up to a raking light and you can plainly see the rub lines.

 

Yeah, and you find this from even the ahem, best, sellers . . .

 

I don't know about "best sellers," but it happens in the marketplace a whole lot.

 

Of all the books I've bought here in the past 6 months, I'd say 25% were either flatter than a pancake, had signs of aggressive dry cleaning, or both.

 

Looks like lots of DIY work out there.

 

My point exactly.

[divad]

Thanks FFB for shedding some light on reglossing!

I don't remember this topic being hit upon in the past and was curious about any tell-tale signs of it being done!

 

Smell . . . seriously.

[Ze-man]

Thanks FFB for shedding some light on reglossing!

I don't remember this topic being hit upon in the past and was curious about any tell-tale signs of it being done!

 

Smell . . . seriously.

 

Ya know David, in the interest of edumacating people it would help if you elaborated just a little bit.

 

I doubt most people know that over the years books have been sprayed(reglossed)with everything from, Hairspray, Spray Starch, and even clear coat laquer. And some of these do leave behind a distinct smell, but they also look and feel as stiff as a board so sniffing them is not really necessary.

 

Not that there anything wrong with that though!

 

Sniff away, it might even give you a buzz.

[Ze-man]

Thanks FFB for shedding some light on reglossing!

I don't remember this topic being hit upon in the past and was curious about any tell-tale signs of it being done!

 

Talk about missed posts. I somehow glossed over yours Jay.

 

I think the best advice Scott gave was getting to know what paticular publishers and titles look like. So when you see one that looks odd it really stands out.

 

Easier said then done I know, but after awhile you start to see things in how inks were applied that may look weird, but are normal for that issue. Especially in GA books.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[VintageComics]

Sorry Ze, I actually missed a post. My bad.

 

 

Piper, the reason cleaning gets a PLOD is because the book is dis-assembled AND the paper is treated with a solvent or water. Dry cleaning is basically removal of dirt with an erasure or similar. It's tough to detect and really does not do anything to the book. It's almost like simply wiping off a layer of dust.

 

R.

 

 

It's not "almost like simply wiping off a layer of dust." That IS a kind of dry cleaning. Dry cleaning is the removal of surface grime, which may or may not be bonded with the surface of the cover. Wiping off dust is still "dry cleaning." Any conservator of paper artifacts will tell you this. The only reason comic collectors argue about this is out of ignorance and out of fear that any kind of "restoration" will cause the value of a book to drop.

 

It actually IS LIKE WIPING OFF A LAYER OF DUST because all you are doing is removing what is on the paper and not what is in the paper (not on a molecular level mind you)...and I wasn't arguing it I was simply pointing out my understanding of CGC's rationale for not giving it a PLOD.

 

Lawyers.

 

 

[Jayman]

Thanks FFB for shedding some light on reglossing!

I don't remember this topic being hit upon in the past and was curious about any tell-tale signs of it being done!

 

Smell . . . seriously.

 

Who, me? (Jumps into the shower quickly!)

[Jayman]

I doubt most people know that over the years books have been sprayed(reglossed)with everything from, Hairspray, Spray Starch, and even clear coat laquer. And some of these do leave behind a distinct smell, but they also look and feel as stiff as a board so sniffing them is not really necessary.

 

I do sniff my books! There I said it!

I still remember that episode of Antiques Roadshow where that guy had some great SA key issues

that he SPRAY VARNISHED to keep them in pristine condition!

[divad]

Thanks FFB for shedding some light on reglossing!

I don't remember this topic being hit upon in the past and was curious about any tell-tale signs of it being done!

 

Smell . . . seriously.

 

Ya know David, in the interest of edumacating people it would help if you elaborated just a little bit.

 

I doubt most people know that over the years books have been sprayed(reglossed)with everything from, Hairspray, Spray Starch, and even clear coat laquer. And some of these do leave behind a distinct smell, but they also look and feel as stiff as a board so sniffing them is not really necessary.

 

Not that there anything wrong with that though!

 

Sniff away, it might even give you a buzz.

 

Ya' know, people like to laugh about it around here, but properly stored comics have a distinct smell, which improperly stored or chemically treated books don't have. I have seen books on occasion that have obviously been re-glossed. Some have had an almost kerosene-like smell (a subtle petrochemical flavor, if you will.) Real comics don't smell like this. It's not that you can sniff a book, and say, "reglossed with Alberto VO5" but you can say, "Something is not right here . . ."

[divad]

I doubt most people know that over the years books have been sprayed(reglossed)with everything from, Hairspray, Spray Starch, and even clear coat laquer. And some of these do leave behind a distinct smell, but they also look and feel as stiff as a board so sniffing them is not really necessary.

 

I do sniff my books! There I said it!

I still remember that episode of Antiques Roadshow where that guy had some great SA key issues

that he SPRAY VARNISHED to keep them in pristine condition!

 

Or the guy who puts them in Lucite!

[VintageComics]

Thanks FFB for shedding some light on reglossing!

I don't remember this topic being hit upon in the past and was curious about any tell-tale signs of it being done!

 

Smell . . . seriously.

 

Ya know David, in the interest of edumacating people it would help if you elaborated just a little bit.

 

I doubt most people know that over the years books have been sprayed(reglossed)with everything from, Hairspray, Spray Starch, and even clear coat laquer. And some of these do leave behind a distinct smell, but they also look and feel as stiff as a board so sniffing them is not really necessary.

 

Not that there anything wrong with that though!

 

Sniff away, it might even give you a buzz.

 

Ya' know, people like to laugh about it around here, but properly stored comics have a distinct smell, which improperly stored or chemically treated books don't have. I have seen books on occasion that have obviously been re-glossed. Some have had an almost kerosene-like smell (a subtle petrochemical flavor, if you will.) Real comics don't smell like this. It's not that you can sniff a book, and say, "reglossed with Alberto VO5" but you can say, "Something is not right here . . ."

 

...except that some books will smell that way even if they have not been tampered with.

Big Apple books smell like kerosene

White Mountain books have a distinct smell

Church books have a distinct smell

 

etc.etc..so it may be a clue but there should be others as well.

 

R.

 

 

[Ze-man]

Thanks FFB for shedding some light on reglossing!

I don't remember this topic being hit upon in the past and was curious about any tell-tale signs of it being done!

 

Smell . . . seriously.

 

Ya know David, in the interest of edumacating people it would help if you elaborated just a little bit.

 

I doubt most people know that over the years books have been sprayed(reglossed)with everything from, Hairspray, Spray Starch, and even clear coat laquer. And some of these do leave behind a distinct smell, but they also look and feel as stiff as a board so sniffing them is not really necessary.

 

Not that there anything wrong with that though!

 

Sniff away, it might even give you a buzz.

 

Ya' know, people like to laugh about it around here, but properly stored comics have a distinct smell, which improperly stored or chemically treated books don't have. I have seen books on occasion that have obviously been re-glossed. Some have had an almost kerosene-like smell (a subtle petrochemical flavor, if you will.) Real comics don't smell like this. It's not that you can sniff a book, and say, "reglossed with Alberto VO5" but you can say, "Something is not right here . . ."

 

I am not saying not to sniff your comics David!(I am a closet sniffer myself, it always has a story to tell) I just wanted you to elaborate on what you said when you said "smell.. seriously" because while you, me and others here might know exactly what you are talking about, many others who read these threads do not.

 

A comic can smell for a variety of storage reasons, even to the point of smelling stongly of kerosene but that does not mean they have been reglossed in some manner. Thats why I personally go more by visual clues, texture and handfeel when trying to determine if a book was reglossed in some way.

 

I dont think we are at opposite ends here, I just thought you didn't spell out your comment enough so those reading would learn why you said what you did.

 

We now have reglossing, sizing and sniffing.

 

Whats next, peeping ?

 

 

[joeypost]

Thanks FFB for shedding some light on reglossing!

I don't remember this topic being hit upon in the past and was curious about any tell-tale signs of it being done!

 

Smell . . . seriously.

 

Ya know David, in the interest of edumacating people it would help if you elaborated just a little bit.

 

I doubt most people know that over the years books have been sprayed(reglossed)with everything from, Hairspray, Spray Starch, and even clear coat laquer. And some of these do leave behind a distinct smell, but they also look and feel as stiff as a board so sniffing them is not really necessary.

 

Not that there anything wrong with that though!

 

Sniff away, it might even give you a buzz.

 

Ya' know, people like to laugh about it around here, but properly stored comics have a distinct smell, which improperly stored or chemically treated books don't have. I have seen books on occasion that have obviously been re-glossed. Some have had an almost kerosene-like smell (a subtle petrochemical flavor, if you will.) Real comics don't smell like this. It's not that you can sniff a book, and say, "reglossed with Alberto VO5" but you can say, "Something is not right here . . ."

 

I am not saying not to sniff your comics David!(I am a closet sniffer myself, it always has a story to tell) I just wanted you to elaborate on what you said when you said "smell.. seriously" because while you, me and others here might know exactly what you are talking about, many others who read these threads do not.

 

A comic can smell for a variety of storage reasons, even to the point of smelling stongly of kerosene but that does not mean they have been reglossed in some manner. Thats why I personally go more by visual clues, texture and handfeel when trying to determine if a book was reglossed in some way.

 

I dont think we are at opposite ends here, I just thought you didn't spell out your comment enough so those reading would learn why you said what you did.

 

We now have reglossing, sizing and sniffing.

 

Whats next, peeping ?

 

 

I wake up late at night to check up on my books. I keep hoping they will repoduce on me so I no longer have to buy books for my collection to grow.

 

Comic book husbandry at its best