Help me understand why this artist/creator is so popular?

[tilleycs]

Now I'll make a presumption that if you don't like Toth's work, then you don't like the artists who influenced him - Milton Caniff, Will Eisner and Joe Shuster

 

Yikes! I never said I don't like Toth's work. All I said was that it doesn't speak to me and that I'm trying to understand, with some help on this board, what it is about theses fellas that you find appealing. And that's a huge distinction from saying that I don't like Toth's work. Okaly doakaly?

 

jjonahjameson1, I think comicartcom's comments were directed at me, and he's just as mistaken about my comments. I never said I didn't like his work. I admitted that I don't know a lot about his work in comics (I never paid much attention to who the writers & artists were - I was more interested in the characters), and I said that I'd love to OWN some of his work (the cartoon storyboards).

 

So, I'm not sure where you (comicartcom) are getting these assumptions from.

[Satya-migration]

Everybody says volumes about the simplicity in Toth's drawings, and they are all right, of course. He uses very economical strokes to render the human figure, and his backgrounds of the desert, the foliage etc are all minimal squiggles, but he nails it.

 

One book that I read recently was The Complete Classic Zorro by Alex Toth by Image comics, which reprints the fifties comics that Toth did for the Disney version of the character. While I enjoyed Toth's scattered 80s work A LOT ( a Green Lantern story, a Hood story from the Archie characters, some romance shorts), the panel designs in Zorro just blew me away. You can check out some scans, and a bit of analysis here:

http://madinkbeard.com/blog/archives/alex-toths-zorro

 

I would recommend that book highly to anyone interested in Toth's comic work, though the stories are pretty ho-hum.

 

In a way, I find Toth, Mazzucchelli and Cooke belonging to the same "school" of illustration. All of them have a mixture of cartoony styles with realism in their work. I think the reason why Bulanadi's ( or any other inker) inking over Mazz is not preferred is because they tend to upset that balance. There is that scene in Batman Year One where Batman jumps onto a balcony and scares three burglars - it just felt so stripped down, very non-superheroey. His Batman does not have bulging muscles, no snarling face, and is yet intimidating. I agree, his body of work is largely dependent on the Miller scripts, but check out the non-Miller DD pages available on Spencer Beck's site, especially the Catwoman pinups. Beautiful stuff.

 

I want to talk about Mignola and Jack Davis, but it's 2 AM in India and I am VERY sleepy. Maybe I'll continue my raving tomorrow. G'night all!

[Artemaria]

7. Michael Golden

 

. . . I still remember a pin-up he did for a Marvel calendar that may be one of the best renditions of the Hulk I've ever seen. Yes, even better than Dale Keown. .

 

Cheers!

N

 

 

You mean this?

 

 

(Here's the link in case the image doesn't come up right - http://www.comicartcommunity.com/gallery//details.php?image_id=16723&sessionid=07dae7c3be6354f732454dcdfc721da8 )

 

Yeah, I'd agree that this image seared itself into my mind since the 1981 Marvel Calendar in which it appeared. And I would agree that it compares very favorably with (and some would argue and I wouldn't necessarily disagree that it is better than) any Hulk renditions that Keown did while he was working on the title with Peter David.

 

That being said, in my estimation, Keown's more recent Hulk renditions surpass even Keown's own prior work. To my eye, some of Keown's more recent Hulk renditions are fairly mind blowing.

 

But then again, so is this image from twenty eight years ago . . .

 

Best regards all.

 

- A

 

[comicartfan]

How can anyone not look at this Golden piece and not think WOW ?!!

 

http://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryPiece.asp?Piece=168720&GSub=40707

[143ksk]

In my opinion, Charles Schulz is the one true genius of the American comic strip. His influence on American culture, not to mention American comic strips has been enormous. The security blanket, Snoopy and the Red Baron, Charlie Brown's failures, and on and on are part of our national popular culture.

 

There are virtually no current comic strip artists who do not owe a debt to Schulz and Peanuts. His strips embody, explain and poke fun at the human condition. You should really read the Complete Peanuts volumes that have been published (1950 to around 1970). They cover the apex of Schulz' creativity and artistry. IMO the strip starts to suffer in the early '80s from lack of ideas. But the first 20 to 25 years...

[comix4fun]

How can anyone not look at this Golden piece and not think WOW ?!!

 

http://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryPiece.asp?Piece=168720&GSub=40707

 

 

That's the one...the one piece most of us would trade their collections for. A piece so nice it makes you want to cry. I would pay a good amount just to get a hi res scan of the piece so I can enjoy looking at it more closely.

 

C

[comicartfan]

I agree Chris......It truly is a masterpiece in the purest sense of the word.

[tth2]

In my opinion, Charles Schulz is the one true genius of the American comic strip. His influence on American culture, not to mention American comic strips has been enormous. The security blanket, Snoopy and the Red Baron, Charlie Brown's failures, and on and on are part of our national popular culture.

 

There are virtually no current comic strip artists who do not owe a debt to Schulz and Peanuts. His strips embody, explain and poke fun at the human condition. You should really read the Complete Peanuts volumes that have been published (1950 to around 1970). They cover the apex of Schulz' creativity and artistry. IMO the strip starts to suffer in the early '80s from lack of ideas. But the first 20 to 25 years...

Well said.

[Frederic9494]

Everybody says volumes about the simplicity in Toth's drawings, and they are all right, of course. He uses very economical strokes to render the human figure, and his backgrounds of the desert, the foliage etc are all minimal squiggles, but he nails it.

 

One book that I read recently was The Complete Classic Zorro by Alex Toth by Image comics, which reprints the fifties comics that Toth did for the Disney version of the character. While I enjoyed Toth's scattered 80s work A LOT ( a Green Lantern story, a Hood story from the Archie characters, some romance shorts), the panel designs in Zorro just blew me away. You can check out some scans, and a bit of analysis here:

http://madinkbeard.com/blog/archives/alex-toths-zorro

 

I would recommend that book highly to anyone interested in Toth's comic work, though the stories are pretty ho-hum.

 

In a way, I find Toth, Mazzucchelli and Cooke belonging to the same "school" of illustration. All of them have a mixture of cartoony styles with realism in their work. I think the reason why Bulanadi's ( or any other inker) inking over Mazz is not preferred is because they tend to upset that balance. There is that scene in Batman Year One where Batman jumps onto a balcony and scares three burglars - it just felt so stripped down, very non-superheroey. His Batman does not have bulging muscles, no snarling face, and is yet intimidating. I agree, his body of work is largely dependent on the Miller scripts, but check out the non-Miller DD pages available on Spencer Beck's site, especially the Catwoman pinups. Beautiful stuff.

 

I want to talk about Mignola and Jack Davis, but it's 2 AM in India and I am VERY sleepy. Maybe I'll continue my raving tomorrow. G'night all!

 

I agree

 

To convince non-believer of Alex Toth's art. Check out this classic EC story : Thunderjet!

 

http://www.tothfans.com/potd.php?date=1-11-2005

http://www.tothfans.com/potd.php?date=1-12-2005

http://www.tothfans.com/potd.php?date=1-13-2005

http://www.tothfans.com/potd.php?date=1-14-2005

http://www.tothfans.com/potd.php?date=1-15-2005

http://www.tothfans.com/potd.php?date=1-16-2005

http://www.tothfans.com/potd.php?date=1-17-2005

 

When I look at the third page, I see where Mazzuchelli got some of his influence : look at how the explosion/smoke are drawn & the use of solid black...(ref. DD Born again and Batman Year One)

 

Check out also it's sequel : F-86 Sabre Jet!

 

http://v1.tothfans.com/calendar.asp?date=1-03-2005

http://v1.tothfans.com/calendar.asp?date=1-04-2005

http://v1.tothfans.com/calendar.asp?date=1-05-2005

http://v1.tothfans.com/calendar.asp?date=1-06-2005

http://v1.tothfans.com/calendar.asp?date=1-07-2005

http://v1.tothfans.com/calendar.asp?date=1-08-2005

http://v1.tothfans.com/calendar.asp?date=1-09-2005

 

Unfortunately these scans are in color, for those fortunate to have EC Library volumes of Frontline Combat, you can see them in their B&W glory - pretty striking (especially the Sabre Jet story with its minimalistic approach)

 

The layout to these stories were done by Harvey Kurtzman. Toth was a master in storytelling and it would have been great to see him fly solo in an EC story.

 

Regarding his storytelling skills, check out this critique by Alex Toth of Steve Rude's work on an issue of Johnny Quest : Very interesting reading

 

http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1024328#post10%2024328

 

Frederic

 

[*paull*]

Great post, Frederic. Those EC pages are phenomenal.

 

The critique by Toth of Rude's work should be required reading by every artist working in the industry. That blew me away. Toth's love for illustration, in my opinion, is evident in everything he touched. And if you still doubt it, read that critique. A guy who doesn't care or treated the work as journeyman would NEVER have written or could have written such an insightful critique. Pure genius.

[jjonahjameson1]

How can anyone not look at this Golden piece and not think WOW ?!!

 

http://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryPiece.asp?Piece=168720&GSub=40707

 

 

That's the one...the one piece most of us would trade their collections for. A piece so nice it makes you want to cry. I would pay a good amount just to get a hi res scan of the piece so I can enjoy looking at it more closely.

 

C

 

OK, don't nobody yell at what I have to say here. I think its a wonderful piece of artwork. Brilliant. Stunning.

 

...and to me it looks more like an Art Adams piece than a Michael Golden piece. If you didn't tell me it was Michael Golden, I would've bet money it was an Art Adams piece.

 

And Chris, while the piece is very nice, but I definitely wouldn't trade my collection for it. Maybe yours, but not mine

[comix4fun]

How can anyone not look at this Golden piece and not think WOW ?!!

 

http://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryPiece.asp?Piece=168720&GSub=40707

 

 

That's the one...the one piece most of us would trade their collections for. A piece so nice it makes you want to cry. I would pay a good amount just to get a hi res scan of the piece so I can enjoy looking at it more closely.

 

C

 

OK, don't nobody yell at what I have to say here. I think its a wonderful piece of artwork. Brilliant. Stunning.

 

...and to me it looks more like an Art Adams piece than a Michael Golden piece. If you didn't tell me it was Michael Golden, I would've bet money it was an Art Adams piece.

 

Except it was drawn when Art was 17 years old. That might have made me not think it was an Art Adams piece.

 

Maybe Art saw this and built some of the tricks into his game?

 

C

[irchooker]

Maybe Art saw this and built some of the tricks into his game?

 

C

 

Art Adams is absolutely influenced by Golden. All of those post-1980 comic artists were, and while the great ones (especially Mignola and Adams) have evolved the look, Golden is at the bare core of their style, he's what they grew out of. From there you're into J. Scott Campbell, you can even see it in Bachalo. Mike Golden is one of the biggest, lasting influences in modern superhero comics.