Question From An Eager Noob: Where to Spend $20,000?

[joe_collector]

What is it that makes this concept so hard to understand for people?

 

Maybe because Heritage uses your bid price as the starting point, rather than using it as the total price including BP. Heritage tries very hard to hide it, like the gov't does taxes, hoping eager beaver buyers get caught up in the auction madness.

 

Otherwise, why isn't a $3,000 bid a $3,000 total cost? $2500+ to the seller and 450+ to Heritage?

[comixcroz]

If you are serious and not a shill this is what I would do with your $20K.

 

First, and absolutely first, this is money you can afford to lose. You absolutely should not be looking at this as anything but a completely speculative investment.

 

Get your $20K in hundreds.

 

Go to a big show. Not a little one, but a BIG show. Chicago, San Diego, maybe NYCC, something like that.

 

Day One: Walk around the show. Don't buy anything. Observe all the dealers tables. You're looking for a guy with a lot of books who, for some reason, doesn't have many sales.

 

Day Two: Walk around the show. Don't buy anything. Observe all the dealers tables. Same thing. It will start to become apparent to you which dealer is having a terrible show. Lighting, placement, whatever - there's always somebody.

 

Day Three: Walk around the show. Keep looking. If the show ends at 5 PM, wait until 3, and then pounce. Walk up to that dealer.

 

Very slowly pull your wad of cash out. Say you will take $80K in sticker for your $20K, and you get to pick the books. You may get laughed at, but there's a very good chance he'll bite - and if he doesn't, you can most likely get $60K in sticker. Grade doesn't really matter at this point - but you don't want anything published after 1975.

 

Twenty grand says "hello" a lot.

this is actually great advice. Some of these dealers are used to accepting time payments for high value books and a 20k cash purchase is something that is few and far between anyways. I don't know if you would get 80k worth of books but you would definetely get some nice deals, for sure.

 

Personally, I would buy one book with the 20k. Look at Amazing Fantasy 15, FF1, or Hulk 1 and buy the one with the highest grade. I know its hard to do when you think of all of the nice books you can have for 20k, but I think this might be your best bet for LONG TERM investment. Or buy something like that FF55 9.9 that just sold for 16k. SA 9.9s are always a safe bet

[dekeuk]

invest in 90's moderns, they are already pushing 20 years old. Great value there

 

I completely disagree with this.

 

Any book from Marvel or DC from the 90's will NEVER be rare, not even in 9.8

 

And as soon as prices start to rise, more books get slabbed, and prices fall again. There will be constant price suppresion.

 

Take a look at some of the comic lots being sold by NEATSTUFF on ebay. They sell comics by the TRACTOR TRAILER load from the 1990's

 

How many potential 9.8's do you think are in an 18-wheeler?

 

That's why prices are never going to the moon on Marvel & DC 1990's stuff.

 

 

 

it's called sarcasm

 

He said he was a newbie. He might not know it is sarcasm.

 

 

[Dale Roberts]

If you are serious and not a shill this is what I would do with your $20K.

 

First, and absolutely first, this is money you can afford to lose. You absolutely should not be looking at this as anything but a completely speculative investment.

 

Get your $20K in hundreds.

 

Go to a big show. Not a little one, but a BIG show. Chicago, San Diego, maybe NYCC, something like that.

 

Day One: Walk around the show. Don't buy anything. Observe all the dealers tables. You're looking for a guy with a lot of books who, for some reason, doesn't have many sales.

 

Day Two: Walk around the show. Don't buy anything. Observe all the dealers tables. Same thing. It will start to become apparent to you which dealer is having a terrible show. Lighting, placement, whatever - there's always somebody.

 

Day Three: Walk around the show. Keep looking. If the show ends at 5 PM, wait until 3, and then pounce. Walk up to that dealer.

 

Very slowly pull your wad of cash out. Say you will take $80K in sticker for your $20K, and you get to pick the books. You may get laughed at, but there's a very good chance he'll bite - and if he doesn't, you can most likely get $60K in sticker. Grade doesn't really matter at this point - but you don't want anything published after 1975.

 

Twenty grand says "hello" a lot.

this is actually great advice. Some of these dealers are used to accepting time payments for high value books and a 20k cash purchase is something that is few and far between anyways. I don't know if you would get 80k worth of books but you would definetely get some nice deals, for sure.

 

Personally, I would buy one book with the 20k. Look at Amazing Fantasy 15, FF1, or Hulk 1 and buy the one with the highest grade. I know its hard to do when you think of all of the nice books you can have for 20k, but I think this might be your best bet for LONG TERM investment. Or buy something like that FF55 9.9 that just sold for 16k. SA 9.9s are always a safe bet

 

Donut, I am going to respectfully disagree with you....

 

Granted, you can come to my office ANYTIME with 20K and buy a legit 60K worth of books from my backup inventory, and I don't care if it is cash or check. But you ain't gonna buy 80K worth of AF #15s, FF #1s, Hulk #1s, nice early Action/Supermans, Batmans/ Detectives, Phantom Lady #17s and the like for 20K from anyone. Maybe if you want to get a 1.5 AF #15 with restoration. or a FF #1 with a big chunk missing and 2 pieces of tape. Maybe if you want to take a bunch of mid grade GA & SA miscellaneous. But you can't buy good books like we are talking about. I defy anyone to tell me they have done it or do it and then come back and tell the boards who and where.

[tth2]

What is it that makes this concept so hard to understand for people?

 

Maybe because Heritage uses your bid price as the starting point, rather than using it as the total price including BP. Heritage tries very hard to hide it, like the gov't does taxes, hoping eager beaver buyers get caught up in the auction madness.

 

Otherwise, why isn't a $3,000 bid a $3,000 total cost? $2500+ to the seller and 450+ to Heritage?

Even if Heritage "tries very hard to hide it", which I don`t think they do given the prominent calculation they show when you initially hit the bid button, it is what it is and anyone who`s not mathematically challenged should be able to figure it out and build the BP into their bid calculation accordingly.

[HouseofComics.Com]

As an aside to Donut's post, you'd need to make sure the convention dealer's 60 k or 80 k sticker is a legit sticker price and not grossly overgraded double guide sticker...

[Matches Malone-migration]

Wow, this is really interesting stuff. Thanks, all of you! I'm taking tons of notes here, thanks again. I can't tell you how helpful you all have been.

 

I'm especially interested in this idea that one of you said to use the lump sum to purchase one good book. Any more advice along those lines?

 

I'll be checking out HighGradeComics.com, also. Any discounts available or deals to be made at your site?

 

I was told by someone else on this board that http://www.harleyyeecomics.com/ is my best bet. Thoughts?

 

For things that are not quite so rare, how do you feel about NewKadia.com? I use them for my non-investment comics, and have always been pleased. I understand that are not a CGC or investment-minded shop.

 

PGX... I've gotten conflicting opinions. What should I know about them?

 

Thanks! I'm going to slowly take my time developing my investment strategy, but I will tell you when I pull the trigger.

 

Thanks again everyone!

 

[eddly]

 

PGX... I've gotten conflicting opinions. What should I know about them?

 

 

 

I'd just stick to CGC books as they are easier to sell. I guess that is the nicest way to put it. Best of luck!

[comixcroz]

Wow, this is really interesting stuff. Thanks, all of you! I'm taking tons of notes here, thanks again. I can't tell you how helpful you all have been.

 

I'm especially interested in this idea that one of you said to use the lump sum to purchase one good book. Any more advice along those lines?

 

 

The reason I said to take the whole 20k and buy one amazing book is for long term investment purposes. If you can hold one of the major keys in High Grade I really beleive that you will never have a hard time selling it quickly and for a profit. Think of it this way, if your dad or your grandfather would have spent 7k or 8k on one comic like Action Comics 1 or Tec 27 in the 70s think about how much that book would be worth today. They would have had a hard time justifying a 8k purchase on just a comic but that move would have totally paid off. It might be hard to spend 20k on an Amazing Fantasy 15 now - but imagine what that book will be selling for in 20 years...

 

If you have 20k cash to spend right now, spend it all on one book IMHO - or put 20k down on a 50k book and pay off the rest in TP.

[Mio]

I would spread my money around in Golden, Silver and early bronze aged books. Stick to books that have historical significance (and that you like - if you get "stuck" with something, you might as well like it).

 

Don't be afraid to move some inventory if it has appreciated significantly and invest elsewhere. Like everything, bubbles come and go...

[comicwiz]

If you would accept my own biased opinion, I'd suggest a certified copy of Zap Comix #1 (Plymell), the only snag is that there are only 6 copies in 9.0 or higher (3 CGC 9.0's and 3 CGC 9.4's) - take it from someone who has owned a few copies, this is a book you don't want to chance buying raw to submit for grading. Runners-up would be unrestored copies of Detective Comics #31 and/or Suspense Comics #3 (make sure its complete with "83 Days On A Life-Raft" centerfold story - often missing due to faulty binding process when the book was produced).

 

The last two you'll probably have very wide ranges on grade based on demand and availability, so if you've got some money left over or you need to add another book to improve your chances of finding the right copy for you, then I'd say to keep Captain America Annual #1 on your radar (even if its low grade - but again, it must be complete). These books seem to have an allure that draws-in even the most focused collectors to buy into their significance in terms of comic history, and their values continue to rise exponentially with each year that passes. And if you're itching for more ideas, you can always stop-by the link in my signature (thumbs u

[FlyingDonut]

If you are serious and not a shill this is what I would do with your $20K.

 

First, and absolutely first, this is money you can afford to lose. You absolutely should not be looking at this as anything but a completely speculative investment.

 

Get your $20K in hundreds.

 

Go to a big show. Not a little one, but a BIG show. Chicago, San Diego, maybe NYCC, something like that.

 

Day One: Walk around the show. Don't buy anything. Observe all the dealers tables. You're looking for a guy with a lot of books who, for some reason, doesn't have many sales.

 

Day Two: Walk around the show. Don't buy anything. Observe all the dealers tables. Same thing. It will start to become apparent to you which dealer is having a terrible show. Lighting, placement, whatever - there's always somebody.

 

Day Three: Walk around the show. Keep looking. If the show ends at 5 PM, wait until 3, and then pounce. Walk up to that dealer.

 

Very slowly pull your wad of cash out. Say you will take $80K in sticker for your $20K, and you get to pick the books. You may get laughed at, but there's a very good chance he'll bite - and if he doesn't, you can most likely get $60K in sticker. Grade doesn't really matter at this point - but you don't want anything published after 1975.

 

Twenty grand says "hello" a lot.

this is actually great advice. Some of these dealers are used to accepting time payments for high value books and a 20k cash purchase is something that is few and far between anyways. I don't know if you would get 80k worth of books but you would definetely get some nice deals, for sure.

 

Personally, I would buy one book with the 20k. Look at Amazing Fantasy 15, FF1, or Hulk 1 and buy the one with the highest grade. I know its hard to do when you think of all of the nice books you can have for 20k, but I think this might be your best bet for LONG TERM investment. Or buy something like that FF55 9.9 that just sold for 16k. SA 9.9s are always a safe bet

 

Donut, I am going to respectfully disagree with you....

 

Granted, you can come to my office ANYTIME with 20K and buy a legit 60K worth of books from my backup inventory, and I don't care if it is cash or check. But you ain't gonna buy 80K worth of AF #15s, FF #1s, Hulk #1s, nice early Action/Supermans, Batmans/ Detectives, Phantom Lady #17s and the like for 20K from anyone. Maybe if you want to get a 1.5 AF #15 with restoration. or a FF #1 with a big chunk missing and 2 pieces of tape. Maybe if you want to take a bunch of mid grade GA & SA miscellaneous. But you can't buy good books like we are talking about. I defy anyone to tell me they have done it or do it and then come back and tell the boards who and where.

 

I didn't say you'd be getting all the great stuff. I said you could be able to get $80K in sticker. 80K in books from your backup inventory for $20K is still 75% off. And I'll take an 1.5 AF 15 with restoration at 75% off, same with an FF 1, same with mid grade Golden Age, all day long, because it can easily flipped.

 

Of course, if you wanted to go crazy, you could buy 1000 long boxes of 1975-up commons at $20 a box, and then spend the rest of your life selling stuff for a buck a piece. 250 books a box, 1000 boxes, $1 each.

[FlyingDonut]

Actually, this whole discussion rests on a question we haven't asked - is this a long term buy and hold thing, or are you going to day trade?

[FlyingDonut]

As an aside to Donut's post, you'd need to make sure the convention dealer's 60 k or 80 k sticker is a legit sticker price and not grossly overgraded double guide sticker...

 

Of course, this goes without saying.

[dekeuk]

 

PGX... I've gotten conflicting opinions. What should I know about them?

 

Avoid PGX like the plague for long term investments. They will likely be out of business 10 years from now and it might be impossible to sell your books in a PGX holder for anything close to their true value. Plus you might get burned by a restored book they failed to detect. Your $20k book might end up being worth only $2k.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[comicwiz]

Actually, this whole discussion rests on a question we haven't asked - is this a long term buy and hold thing, or are you going to day trade?

 

I understood it to be in it for the long haul...

[moonlite]

Sorry, I have to agree with Pirate.

 

And if he is not right, just listen to DALE. I am pretty sure he is one of the more shrewdest advisors on these boards, especially after seeing some of his stock.

 

 

[dekeuk]

The reason I said to take the whole 20k and buy one amazing book is for long term investment purposes.

 

I disagree with putting in all on one book. This hindsight assumes you pick the correct book. That is like saying "if only I had bought Microsoft stock in 1984".

 

It is very possible to buy the wrong book. If you look at the first 1970 price guide, you can see the so called "big books" have changed over time.

 

Some stayed the same like Action 1, Detective 27, Spiderman 1, etc.

 

Others changed, like Flash Gordon and Captain Marvel books that used to be highly prized years ago.

 

Spread the money around to at least 10 books, just like you would diversify a stock portfolio. Buying one single comic is like putting all your money in one stock.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Count]

If you are that out of the loop that you don't know which direction to go with 20k my advice is don't buy any books. :shrug:

 

Spend sometime on the boards, go to some shows and learn a bit before throwing 20k around because IMO your asking to get scammed.

[comixcroz]

The reason I said to take the whole 20k and buy one amazing book is for long term investment purposes.

 

I disagree with putting in all on one book. This hindsight assumes you pick the correct book. That is like saying "if only I had bought Microsoft stock in 1984".

 

It is very possible to buy the wrong book. If you look at the first 1970 price guide, you can see the so called "big books" have changed over time.

 

Some stayed the same like Action 1, Detective 27, Spiderman 1, etc.

 

Others changed, like Flash Gordon and Captain Marvel books that used to be highly prized years ago.

 

Spread the money around to at least 10 books, just like you would diversify a stock portfolio. Buying one single comic is like putting all your money in one stock.

 

 

I guess you can consider it a Higher Risk to put your money in 1 book or 1 stock, but if you speculate correctly your payoff will be much much bigger. It just depends on how big your balls are.

Anyways, I really doubt books like AF 15, FF1, Hulk1 are going to drop in value in 20 years. I'm sure the lucky folks that bought HG early Captain Marvel in the 70s and held on to it up until this point made money. Maybe not quite as much as if they would have if they invested in Action 1 and Tec 27, but still.

 

If you spread the wealth and buy 10 2k books you certainly will have a very nice collection but you won't have a grail that people are willing to knock the doors down for.