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Showcase #4 - shifting preferences? BB28 the "new" 1st SA DC?

Started by dam60,

160 posts in this topic

cvttrdr1-migration

cvttrdr1-migration

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Posted

One point about the Flash tryouts,simply to help put things into perspective,is we need to look at that time and place.I was born in 1954 and it truely was the atomic age. In the mid to late 50's,the countries psyche was tied up in the Atomic bomb,communism,the Korean conflict.Look at the movies of the day,the classic B sci fi movies. This was a time and place where i was made to practice(1959) getting under my desk in school,or out in the hallway,crouching under my coat, to protect me from nuclear attack.Look at the titles that emerged in that time.TTA,TOS, and so on.Sure Supe & Bats had their titles,but that was a contiuation of their popularity from many years before.Perhaps the world just wasn't all that ready for a super fast super hero in red tights.The comic companies produced what they could sell. At that point war,horror &sci fi sold.Look at the origins of the Marvel characters.The FF went thru the Van Allen belt. Spidey gets bitten by a radioactive spider.Just expansions on the themes that dominated the 50's. (it was the van allen belt? been a long time....)Hopefully,this helps the thread which is truly marvelous. keep up the posts.

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Rip

Rip

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I understand what your talking about regarding the Legion, but my comments were in regard to your mention of Flash 110. That was the first Kid Flash as far as I remember, not a multible worlds team up like in Flash 123.

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Zonker

Zonker

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Sorry Shadroch, I generally go along with your line of thinking, but the whole pre-Crisis Legion continuity is too big a mess to simply say it was a retroactive multiple-Earths appearance. That would be an extreme example of a retcon a quarter-century after-the-fact! Flash 123 was clearly the beginning of the Multiple Earths storylines that defined DC continuity through the 1960s and 1970s.

 

And it is kind of funny to think about Superman and Batman being protected from overexposure in the early JLA! It was a different world then. Another example: first issues rarely had #1 on the cover (for example GL #1 in 1960). They didn't want to give the impression that the book was an unproven experiment-- much better to be the hundredth-something consecutive issue of a successful series!

 

Another example: Stan Lee's restraint (ha!) in only having a single Spider-Man mag throughout his first decade. (Not counting the short-lived magazine format in the very late '60s)

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shadroch

shadroch

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Sorry Shadroch, I generally go along with your line of thinking, but the whole pre-Crisis Legion continuity is too big a mess to simply say it was a retroactive multiple-Earths appearance. That would be an extreme example of a retcon a quarter-century after-the-fact! Flash 123 was clearly the beginning of the Multiple Earths storylines that defined DC continuity through the 1960s and 1970s.

 

And it is kind of funny to think about Superman and Batman being protected from overexposure in the early JLA! It was a different world then. Another example: first issues rarely had #1 on the cover (for example GL #1 in 1960). They didn't want to give the impression that the book was an unproven experiment-- much better to be the hundredth-something consecutive issue of a successful series!

 

Another example: Stan Lee's restraint (ha!) in only having a single Spider-Man mag throughout his first decade. (Not counting the short-lived magazine format in the very late '60s)

 

I didn't say I agreed with it,only presented it as it was told to me.IMO,the worst thing coming out of the crisis was the affect on the Legion. It did give Superboy a chance to die a hero's death but it totally screwed so much. Mon-El could no longer be Supes so-called big brother,the origin had to change,Jimmy Olsen and Pete Ross were dropped,the list was endless. It became so convulted I had to drop the series.

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fantastic_four

fantastic_four

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You put Capt. America as a "second tier" character...? Hmmm....

 

Superman, Batman, Spider-Man, and X-Men have each had up to 5 or more titles related to directly them. What's the largest number Cap has ever had? Two at most. If you surveyed 1,000 Americans, how would Cap rate against the other four biggies? Not nearly as well, I suspect; most people have only heard of him if they read or collected comics at some point in their lives. How far has Cap penetrated other media besides comics? Not much; no big-budget movies, no popular television shows, no popular cartoons, no popular video games.

 

Since he's not as popular or well-known as the big four, I can't rank him as first tier along with them.

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Foolkiller

Foolkiller

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FF:

 

Actually, I bet a ton of people in the mainstream have heard of Captain America... but if you list the only "A" list characters as Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, X-Men and Spider Man, then that's a real short list of A listers. Plus, it elevates one factor for A listers, prominence among the mainstream. I think of the characters who are A listers those that have or had their own title and share prominence in the comic world itself... an important character beyond sales. If we're talking name recognition, no Cap's not as recognizable as those others...

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Timely

Timely

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You put Capt. America as a "second tier" character...? Hmmm....

 

Superman, Batman, Spider-Man, and X-Men have each had up to 5 or more titles related to directly them. What's the largest number Cap has ever had? Two at most. If you surveyed 1,000 Americans, how would Cap rate against the other four biggies? Not nearly as well, I suspect; most people have only heard of him if they read or collected comics at some point in their lives. How far has Cap penetrated other media besides comics? Not much; no big-budget movies, no popular television shows, no popular cartoons, no popular video games.

 

Since he's not as popular or well-known as the big four, I can't rank him as first tier along with them.

 

Captain America had more than most in the GA. He was in:

 

Captain America Comics #1 up

All Select Comics #1 up

All Winners Comics #1 up

USA Comics #6 up

Marvel Mystery Comics #80 up

Young Allies #1-5

 

Just to name a few.

 

Timely

 

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fantastic_four

fantastic_four

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Captain America had more than most in the GA. He was in:

 

Captain America Comics #1 up

All Select Comics #1 up

All Winners Comics #1 up

USA Comics #6 up

Marvel Mystery Comics #80 up

Young Allies #1-5

 

Wow! How did he fall so far in popularity after the Golden Age? Superman, Batman, and Spidey have somehow held up much better. Was his appeal was too tied up with World War II patriotism that didn't survive the Cold War?

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Timely

Timely

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Most likely. The other problem was he really didn't have his own title until Cap 100 started up.

 

Brian

 

HUH!?! His own title started in 1941 with Captain America Comics #1 and ended in 1950. It then restarted in 1954 for a few issues. A total of 78 issues and one annual, all before Cap #100! news.gif

 

Timely

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PovertyRow

PovertyRow

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While "popular" is specified, you have to admit Cap was in a LOT of film presentations: Captain America 1944 Republic serial, Captain America 1979 made for TV movie, Captain America 1991 theatrical production, Captain America II: Death Too Soon 1979 made for TV movie, Captain America vs. the Mutant and Captain America Battles the Red Skull - both 1964 Don Glut amateur serials shown in undergound type theaters, "Captain America" 1966 cartoon series and the weirdest of all: 3 Mighty Men or Captain America and Santo vs. Spider-Man where Cap teams up with Mexican Wrestling Hero El Santo!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I did a quick poll in work of 11 people ranging in age from early 20's to about 65. All but one knew Cap. Granted this is a ridculously small survey but maybe more of us should try it at work. Just ask 10 or so folks and report the results.

 

I am also somewhat confused about What's the largest number Cap has ever had? Two at most. Captain America Comics, Tales of Suspense (which WAS one of his books) and the spin-off Captain America starting with 100 make 3, but there have been a number of modern age Caps as well, some short run and some longer run. And amoung the Marvel characters being discussed, Cap is the only one who made the transition from GA to SA to BA to MA remaining essentially intact as a character. As well as crossing many other titles. I have to consider Cap a 1st tier character. I have to....have to....I must...Spock! Spock!

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fantastic_four

fantastic_four

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Oops, I didn't realize Cap was so popular before I was born! blush.gif I bow to your superior age knowledge. devil.gifstooges.gif

 

To further lead this thread off-track (hate doing it but I'm not the one who started these interesting asides!! blush.gif) ...why did Timely and Cap/Sub-Mariner go under anyway? I still have to think that the anti-war trends of the 1960s and 1970s are what watered down the Silver Age Cap's popularity...Golden Age experts please correct me if you think I'm wrong.

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FlyingDonut

FlyingDonut

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Oops, I didn't realize Cap was so popular before I was born! blush.gif I bow to your superior age knowledge. devil.gifstooges.gif

 

To further lead this thread off-track (hate doing it but I'm not the one who started these interesting asides!! blush.gif) ...why did Timely and Cap/Sub-Mariner go under anyway? I still have to think that the anti-war trends of the 1960s and 1970s are what watered down the Silver Age Cap's popularity...Golden Age experts please correct me if you think I'm wrong.

 

Well that, and the fact that the book sucked monkey [!@#%^&^] in the 70s. devil.gif

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