Showcase #4 - shifting preferences? BB28 the "new" 1st SA DC?

[Foolkiller]

Thank God people came on and defended Showcase 4... !

 

FF: I know you're a Marvel guy, but Showcase 4 was what demonstrated that super heroes could sell, and sell well, esepcially either old ideas or new characters were introduced... other than Superman and Batman, no other super heroes were doing great.

 

By the way, Showcase 4 is a first appearance, it's the first appearance of the SA Flash, a different character than the GA Flash...

 

I like Brave and the Bold 28 as a bargain, but the story and art of Showcase 4 is better, plus, even we don't buy into the hype as the first silver age book, it's clearly a book that began a trend back towards superheroes.

 

Yeah, a Showcase 4 is expensive as hell... but how many do you really see that much? I see that book less than most other keys.

[joe_collector]

By the way, Showcase 4 is a first appearance, it's the first appearance of the SA Flash, a different character than the GA Flash...

 

Yeah, and Ultimate Spider-man is a different character than Spider-man.

[fantastic_four]

FF: I know you're a Marvel guy, but Showcase 4 was what demonstrated that super heroes could sell, and sell well, esepcially either old ideas or new characters were introduced... other than Superman and Batman, no other super heroes were doing great.

 

I don't doubt you on the historical significance. So how does that translate into buying appeal? As I'm completing the major Marvel runs, I'm beginning to look at DCs...and as I look at Silver titles, Justice League appeals to me greatly with characters like Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, and Green Lantern in it, whereas I'm not seeing much "cool" appeal with Showcase 4. It reminds me of Amazing Fantasy 15 versus FF #1...FF #1 started the Marvel age, but AF15 is definitely more desirable.

[Zonker]

Yeah, maybe B&B 28 is now seen as more significant than Showcase 4 in some circles, but no way would anyone ever mistake B&B 28 for the start of the Silver Age (DC's or any others). The Flash series was where the action was in setting up the DC Silver Age, kind of like Fantastic Four. But though FF had legs up until the 1970s (some would say later), the Flash never really survived Infantino's departure as artist.

 

Flash: all those costumed villains, first Earth 2, return of the Justice Society, early team-ups with Green Lantern

Fantastic Four: lotsa lotsa Marvel Age history

 

But I kind of question whether there was ever a horse race at all with Detective 225 as the first DC silver? Seems kind of like revisionist history... was anyone back in the day thinking the first J'onn J'onzz was that significant?

 

Oh, and JC, the Ultimate Spidey comparison isn't fair. USM is still Peter Parker, still has the same supporting cast, origin, costume etc. With the Silver Age Flash, all you have the same is the name and the powers. The costume, origin, supporting players, villains, and civilian identity are all different.

[joe_collector]

But I kind of question whether there was ever a horse race at all with Detective 225 as the first DC silver? Seems kind of like revisionist history... was anyone back in the day thinking the first J'onn J'onzz was that significant?

 

Obviously you missed that 1987 OS where Detective 225 was one of the most valuable SA comics.

 

There was a definite horserace between it and Showcase 4, and the dealers chose the latter.

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

But I kind of question whether there was ever a horse race at all with Detective 225 as the first DC silver? Seems kind of like revisionist history... was anyone back in the day thinking the first J'onn J'onzz was that significant?

 

Obviously you missed that 1987 OS where Detective 225 was one of the most valuable SA comics.

 

There was a definite horserace between it and Showcase 4, and the dealers chose the latter.

 

You mean, the dealers realized they had more copies of Showcase # 4 to sell.

[joe_collector]

You mean, the dealers realized they had more copies of Showcase # 4 to sell.

 

Exactly, and Detective 225 is a tough book in high grade.

[Moriarty]

For DC, I remember hearing that Det 225 - the first Martain Manhunter was a book that used to have some acclaim as the 1st DC SA book. Yet Showcase #4 won out. Now, personally wouldn't a collector rather have the first gathering of those charaters in the BB 28 than an invidual first SA (not even true "first" in the case of the flash). Going forward, I can see both the Tec 225 (though not so much as that book is just really completely impossible. I NEVER see that book and have only seen one copy with my own two eyes in my life) and the Showcase #4 losing ground value wise to the BB 28.

 

What do you guys think?

 

DAM

 

For those who didn't attend the AACC: DC's Silver Age program at last years comic-con with panelists comprising of Julius Schwartz, Carmine Infantino, Murphy Anderson, Ramona Fradon, Russ Heath & moderated by David Armstrong.

 

The question posted to them was "What book started the DC SA?" Obviously, the usual candidates such as Showcase 4, BB 28 & Detective 225 were all considered important books in their own rights.

 

The answer J. Schwartz gave for S4 (09/56) was although it showcased the 1st SA Flash, the run lasted for only 4 issues & didn't mark the beginning. Tec 225 (11/55) was acknowledged to have been the earlier book, but the character, J'onn J'onzz didn't make his debut cover appearance & wasn't the key player from that title. Thirdly, BB 28 (02/60), whilst posing with strong merits was again too late to be considered.

 

The book regarded by the panel to have started the DC SA was bestowed upon Strange Adventures 9 (06/51). The reason being, according to Schwartz, was that the book marked the origin & 1st appearance of Captain Comet, who appeared as the main character of the cover & story of the book in question. It appeared a full 4 years before Tec 225 & lasted until issue 49. On a personal level, I would agree with the panel's call on this occasion, however, S4 will always be considered the most important SA DC book.

[Aman619]

wow thats so cyninal of both of you. It may be so, but dealers can push a comic over another, but they dont buy them. Its the collectors. How many of you buy books because your dealer tells you to? I thibk Tec225 lost out because whiel both have early first appearances of Silver Age superheroes... Flash was significantly more important than Martian Manhunter. So the question was "which was the superhero appearance that sparked th ereturn of superherp hegemony over the comic book indusrty. And there was a clearer line from SC4 to BB28 to FF1 to AF15 than there was starting with Jonn Jonnz, He was just another backup strip in Detective that never amounted to all that much. Except making the cut for the Justice League.

 

he switch away from Tec225 seems logical to me.

[joe_collector]

The book regarded by the panel to have started the DC SA was bestowed upon Strange Adventures 9 (06/51). The reason being, according to Schwartz, was that the book marked the origin & 1st appearance of Captain Comet, who appeared as the main character of the cover & story of the book in question. It appeared a full 4 years before Tec 225 & lasted until issue 49.

 

That is sound logic, and I love how in The Golden Age, he's accorded the status of First Silver Age Super-hero.

[Zonker]

But I kind of question whether there was ever a horse race at all with Detective 225 as the first DC silver? Seems kind of like revisionist history... was anyone back in the day thinking the first J'onn J'onzz was that significant?

 

Obviously you missed that 1987 OS where Detective 225 was one of the most valuable SA comics.

 

 

Exactly. 1987 = recent = "revisionist history." Some of the comments here seemed to imply that Tec 225 was the title-holder until Showcase #4 surpassed it, whereas how I remember it is Showcase #4 has been the incumbent as long as people have been talking about a Silver Age, with Tec 225 and others attempting every now and then to replace it. I'll have to look through some 1970s Overstreets this weekend.

[joe_collector]

Exactly. 1987 = recent = "revisionist history." Some of the comments here seemed to imply that Tec 225 was the title-holder until Showcase #4 surpassed it

 

I don't think anyone's saying that, but there were a few "contenders" before Showcase 4 got the dealer and OC seal of approval for first SA DC. Detective 225 was simply one of them.

[Rocketeer]

The book regarded by the panel to have started the DC SA was bestowed upon Strange Adventures 9 (06/51). The reason being, according to Schwartz, was that the book marked the origin & 1st appearance of Captain Comet, who appeared as the main character of the cover & story of the book in question. It appeared a full 4 years before Tec 225 & lasted until issue 49.

 

That is sound logic, and I love how in The Golden Age, he's accorded the status of First Silver Age Super-hero.

 

Yeah,..that is a little far off,...jeez,..anyone with half a mind can clearly see the start was with Rex the Wonder Dog #1...Jan 1952...at least he had his own book...

 

[Rocketeer]

The true first book of the Silver Age!!

[Bronty]

 

Sure!! Without Rex, there would be no Krypto!!

[joe_collector]

That is sound logic, and I love how in The Golden Age, he's accorded the status of First Silver Age Super-hero.

 

Yeah,..that is a little far off,...jeez,..anyone with half a mind can clearly see the start was with Rex the Wonder Dog #1...Jan 1952...at least he had his own book...

 

Hey, I didn't see Rex laying down the smack on that bad dude with Hitler's brain.

[fantastic_four]

Not knowing anything about Captain Comet, someone explain to me how he's so significant when he's been cancelled for decades and when, as far as I know, he spawned almost zero similar major science-fiction comic characters? I could be wrong about that since I haven't read early Strange Adventures...so those who have, share it with us, what's great about this guy? Rocketeer's point that he never even got his own title sounds relevant as well.

[joe_collector]

Not knowing anything about Captain Comet, someone explain to me how he's so significant when he's been cancelled for decades and when, as far as I know, he spawned almost zero similar major science-fiction comic characters?

 

Well geez, how many major, title-holding super speedy characters did the Flash spawn?

 

Times change, styles change, and just as in the Bronze Age, what's popular today isn't necessarily what was hot 50 years ago. If the DC panel (many of whom were there) is picking Captain Comet as the start of the Silver Age DC explosion, who am I to argue?

[fantastic_four]

Well geez, how many major, title-holding super speedy characters did the Flash spawn?

 

Well since I wasn't alive then I can't say, but everyone seems to think his success led to the rebirth of superheroes...I can't argue with it.

 

 

Times change, styles change, and just as in the Bronze Age, what's popular today isn't necessarily what was hot 50 years ago. If the DC panel (many of whom were there) is picking Captain Comet as the start of the Silver Age DC explosion, who am I to argue?

 

Perhaps noone to argue, but it doesn't stop anyone from questioning...I'm not seeing the legitimacy of the reasoning yet.

[jduran1]

Borg, Excellent post. Dam that is one beautiful book""""