Which is the first comic where we see a superhero killing the villain?

[shadroch]

Since no-one has come up with an earlier on yet, I submit:

 

Starboy, of the Legion of Super-Heroes was expelled for killing someone back in the mid-60s. Don't remember any of the details but am fairly sure they showed the killing in some Adventure comic.Princess Projecta(Sensor Girl)Killed Nemisis Kid barehanded after he beat Karate Kid to death.This was around 1987,so I'm sure others did it first,but these two deaths were brutal and fully shown.And Jason Todd killed Killer Croc around the same time.

[shadroch]

This was during his Pantheon story arc, in which the intelligent Hulk worked with a secret organization led by a mysterious old man named Agamemnon. At one point the ancient Aggy shed his old man look for that of a teenaged boy, which he claimed he had done once before around WWII. Several cutesy clues were dropped that Aggy was Bucky back then and faked his death. I think there was even a bit where someone, perhaps Steve Rogers, saw Aggy on the street and recognized him as Bucky.

 

It was rather subtle and meant mainly for fun.

 

Arnold

 

I vaguely remember a story that made the rounds in the mid-80s

Cap goes to a Vets hospital and visits wounded and crippled GIs.He passes a room and the nurse tells him about the occupant.The last of the WW2 vets still there,the man is blind and dumb, falling in and out of comas and having lost all his limbs in a fire.As Cap and the nurse move down the corridor,the invalid struggles to sit up. "CAP"he cries"Its me,its Bucky",before falling back into a coma.

[shadroch]

[comicwiz]

 

 

shadroch

 

I thought this thread would have had an answer after the first two replies. I guess its not as "clear cut" as I had originally thought -- no pun intended [re: Hangman splash] .

 

Might make for a good article if someone could dig up some time to research it, and provide some hard facts. And after all, we did get some good examples from mixed era's, but the question still remains as to which comic was the first.

 

[shadroch]

I agree.I doubt Starboy is the first,he's just the first I recall.Spectre used to kill bad guys all the time,but I wouldn't really call him a hero,just as Galactus used to kill worlds without being a real villian,or we trample upon ant-hills.

[joe_collector]

Spectre used to kill bad guys all the time...

 

That's actually a pretty good call for the Silver and up comics. Spectre was an anti-hero, much like Wolverine and Punisher, which if used as criteria would naturally take out any "hero" who actually killed.

 

On another note, Deathlok used to waste quite a few, and his per-issue body count was quite high.

[Darthdiesel]

JC - you just reminded me of a Bronze War comic, Combat Kelly and his deadly Dozen - they were all criminals or something enlisted to use their "talents" best against the "ratzis" - they killed left and right and "on screen"

[COI]

Can anyone give a post-Code example of a hero or villain first-degree, with intent, killing someone on camera, no shadow of doubt whether they're DOA?

 

Bullseye stabbing Elektra in DD 181.

[Filter81]

How come so many people say X-men 133 is the first time a superhero intentionally kills a villain? (First time Post-code anyway) I just pulled the book out and read it from cover to cover and don't see what everyone is talking about. There is one part where Wolverine slashes a guy with his claws but it certainly isn't the first time Wolverine used his claws on an enemy and there was no mention of the guy dying.. Did the whole thing just go over my head when I read it?

 

 

[Aces]

Can anyone give a post-Code example of a hero or villain first-degree, with intent, killing someone on camera, no shadow of doubt whether they're DOA?

 

Bullseye stabbing Elektra in DD 181.

 

I thought Marvel-wise ASM 121 was the first.

The Goblen did want to kill Gwen, or at least he didn't give a whether she got killed.

[fantastic_four]

I thought Marvel-wise ASM 121 was the first.

The Goblen did want to kill Gwen, or at least he didn't give a whether she got killed.

 

Seems quite different than Bullseye killing Elektra since Spidey got involved and we thought for a panel or two that he had saved her...much less brutal, much more heart-wrenching. We're left feeling more sorry for Spidey almost than Gwen since he had to be so involved in her death. When Bullseye killed Elektra, you can see the sai stretching out the back of her uniform; it's memorable enough to where I noticed they used the exact same image in the Daredevil movie.

 

I guess technically you're right, though.

[comicwiz]

I thought Marvel-wise ASM 121 was the first.

The Goblen did want to kill Gwen, or at least he didn't give a whether she got killed.

 

You know, I just gave this some further thought. And then I went back to ASM 121, and found the following dialogue on the last page where Spider-Man is found with a motionless Gwen in his arms. He says:

 

"Your the Creep Who is going to Pay!"

 

"I'm going to get you Goblin, I'm going to destroy you slowly... and when you start begging for me to end it... I'm going to remind you of the one thing --

 

--You Killed the Woman I Love --

 

And for That, You are going to Die!"

 

If this had been a real life situation, and considering Gobey's death was on camera in ASM 122 (albeit a mishap with his rocket), Spider-Mans threats would be construed as intent to kill the Goblin.

 

What do you guys think? Is there enough here to point 122 as the first comic to officially reveal a first-degree superhero killing a first-degree villain? Or is this a better post-code example of a hero or villain first-degree, with intent to kill a villain on camera, without any doubt of their death?

 

And if we can unanimously agree that ASM 122 is the first post-code example, I'd like to see an example that pre-dates it.

[fantastic_four]

What do you mean? He may have intended to kill Goblin in 122, but he didn't actually do it--Goblin killed himself by mistake.

[awe4one]

I don't have the issue in front of me but doesn't SM pull back from killing GG after knocking the snot out of him and then the glider accident happens right afterwards?

 

Jim

[fantastic_four]

I don't have the issue in front of me but doesn't SM pull back from killing GG after knocking the snot out of him and then the glider accident happens right afterwards?

 

Yea, almost exactly like in the film

[joe_collector]

Yea, almost exactly like in the film

 

Except Gobby wasn't a member of the Power Rangers in the comic.

[comicwiz]

What do you mean? He may have intended to kill Goblin in 122, but he didn't actually do it--Goblin killed himself by mistake.

 

In a real-world situation, Spidey uttering death threats, that later tranlated into Gobey's death might have led the audience to believe it was an intention of Spider-Man to off Goblin, one way or the other. It just so happened that in Gobey's zeal to off Spidey, that he wasn't prepared with the situaton that Spidey would duck, and as a consequence, would kill him.

 

I know this sounds like a stretch, but think about a real-world situation where a someone utters a threat, and the victim somehow ends up dying in the tussle. In the courts, whether the person who uttered the threats intended death or not, or whether the victim fell accidentally and bumped his head, the guy that made the threat would still get slapped with manslaughter, at minimum, and/or murder charges.

[fantastic_four]

Yea, he could get convicted in real life if the physical events couldn't be proven...luckily, John Romita captured the real truth on the pages of #122. Not guilty, your honor!

 

So when's the first post-code killing of a villain by a hero? Didn't Batman kill people on-frame in the Dark Knight series?

[comicwiz]

I don't have the issue in front of me but doesn't SM pull back from killing GG after knocking the snot out of him and then the glider accident happens right afterwards?

 

Some might argue that in a fit of rage, Spideys compassion was irrevocably lost. His death threats in ASM 121 carrying over to a tussle between him and Gobey. A more "compassionate" Spidey, who is capable of sensing danger, might have not only ducked, BUT reditected the rocket from Gobey's harm. After all, this is the kind of behaviour we had all come to know and admire about our hero, Spider-Man.

 

But then, that build-up of anger, resentment, and vengence would have been severely downplayed, and the story-line would have surely lost its oomph. I would sooner argue that the play on morality in the death of the Green Goblin chapter was the futhest thing form the editors mind, who was certain that offing Goblin, a first-degree villain, in a classic on-camera scene with one of Marvels mightiest, would surely catapult the story to legendary status.

[awe4one]

I don't have the issue in front of me but doesn't SM pull back from killing GG after knocking the snot out of him and then the glider accident happens right afterwards?

 

Some might argue that in a fit of rage, Spideys compassion was irrevocably lost. His death threats in ASM 121 carrying over to a tussle between him and Gobey. A more "compassionate" Spidey, who is capable of sensing danger, might have not only ducked, BUT reditected the rocket from Gobey's harm. After all, this is the kind of behaviour we had all come to know and admire about our hero, Spider-Man.

 

But then, that build-up of anger, resentment, and vengence would have been severely downplayed, and the story-line would have surely lost its oomph. I would sooner argue that the play on morality in the death of the Green Goblin chapter was the futhest thing form the editors mind, who was certain that offing Goblin, a first-degree villain, in a classic on-camera scene with one of Marvels mightiest, would surely catapult the story to legendary status.

 

Where are you going with this? I thought we were looking for obvious examples.....

 

Jim